The End of an Era? Victoria Secret Angels fired.

[stroopwafel]

Yup.

A lot of it is just marketing: we all know that quality or value isn't what really makes a lot of companies shift product. A brand is huge one day, and gone anywhere from 2-20 years down the line: it's really hard to keep with the times. Victoria's Secret has almost certainly long since peaked. Their brand just doesn't fit what people want any more, so it's in a frantic attempt to change its public perception to keep its ball rolling as long as possible. I remember when Gap took over the high street in my country. Now their stores are few and far between. Currently H&M and Primark rule the roost, or the likes of Asos and BooHoo online, and I wouldn't bet on any of them being major players in 2040.

VS is still popular just not as popular. Women are notorious cheapskates so it's no surprise bargain bin stores like H&M and Primark are doing well. But given the choice if they got free unlimited shopping for an hour which store they would choose? I guarantee not H&M which clothing disintegrates the moment you put it in the washing machine. It's just that the existing trend is to get a lot of shit for your buck even if it's of poor quality. Same reason why stores like Action are so popular. Eacaraxe is rght that VS' problem is that the price is too high for the quality. It sells because of the brand and the models and the shows and just the general advertising but like every business when your competitors deliver higher quality for a lower price and you can't sell on brand alone anymore then you start to have a problem. That the advertising was meant for men is just not true as it was mostly women that liked those shows and those models. Look how many instagram followers Romee Strijd has for example of which 99% women(or rather teenage girls probably).

VS thinks by going 'inclusive' that plus size women will suddenly change brand but that obviously isn't going to happen. They make the wrong analysis, alienate their existing customers without attracting new ones while missing the point. You can just tell these decisions are made by these out of touch managers and marketing bureaus. When the only thing they should have done is lower their price so that it more matches the quality.

It very much was, by their own admission. As per Wikipedia: In 1977, Raymond borrowed $40,000 from family and $40,000 from a bank to establish Victoria's Secret: a store in which men could feel comfortable buying lingerie.

I don't think a 44 year old mission statement is still very relevant.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Women are notorious cheapskates

 

[Buyetyen]

Women are notorious cheapskates

Citation needed.

 

[Agema]

WARNING! WARNING! CASUAL MISOGYNY AHOY!

VS is still popular just not as popular. Women are notorious cheapskates

Okay, it's safe to look again now.

so it's no surprise bargain bin stores like H&M and Primark are doing well.

Primark in particular is successful because they take really good fashion by high end designers and knock off imitations at a fraction of the price. Sure, they get repeatedly sued by those designers, but they make vastly more from selling the copies. Why not look a thousand pounds for a hundred? Rich people can casually redo their wardrobe with the latest gear every three months, and thanks to Primark, so can everyone else (that's about how long the clothes will last, too). That's aspirational living for you. No longer are lower earners forced to buy something expensive to look good, but still be stuck wearing it three years out of date until they can save up for new gear.

It's all an environmental clusterfuck, of course, but that's another issue.

Eacaraxe is rght that VS' problem is that the price is too high for the quality. It sells because of the brand and the models and the shows and just the general advertising but like every business when your competitors deliver higher quality for a lower price and you can't sell on brand alone anymore then you start to have a problem. That the advertising was meant for men is just not true as it was mostly women that liked those shows and those models. Look how many instagram followers Romee Strijd has for example of which 99% women(or rather teenage girls probably).

The movement above has crushed a lot of the "middle ground" retailers - ones that tend to produce better quality and longer-lasting clothes, which may be stylish (generally look good), but don't necessarily meet an immediate fashion. Fashion is the real button to press. As long as a retailer can convince everyone they are fashionable, they can sell high, low or middle; they can sell overpriced dross that disintegrates in a few washes.

Although bluntly, the minute a brand has opened a load of high street stores, it's surrendered any possible claim to the mystique of high end exclusivity. There are huge profits available, but they'll always end up in the ugliest of cut-throat marketing struggles.

 

[stroopwafel]

WARNING! WARNING! CASUAL MISOGYNY AHOY!

Oh please gimme a break. Must we mince every word now and can't make any comment in jest? It is obvious that those who shout this the loudest are only the ones who want to appear virtuous while not respecting women in the slightest when they can get away with it ie the actual misoginysts.

 

[Buyetyen]

Oh please gimme a break. Must we mince every word now and can't make any comment in jest? It is obvious that those who shout this the loudest are only the ones who want to appear virtuous while not respecting women in the slightest when they can get away with it ie the actual misoginysts.

"No U!!!"

If you intended that cheapskates remark to be in jest, then it was a bad joke told poorly. And this, "I know you are but what am I?" response is not helping your case.

 

[Eacaraxe]

I think - it's kind of 20-25 years back now - what my friend was complaining about was some guy took over at ?Marvel and started reprinting rare and classic editions: because of course people want them and will pay for them, so that's profits. In the process severely damaging the second hand comic book market, through which many comic book stores made a substantial chunk of their money, and thus went bust.

The bigger problem with that in the '90s, were comic book companies tried to cash in on the speculation and collectors' market by making everything a "collectors' edition"...which is where all the foil cover, variant cover, limited-edition reprint, not-quite-TPB compilation, shit came from in addition to annualized "famous character dies...permanently...we promise!" and "universe reboot" nonsense.

Completely neglecting that what makes comic books collectors' items and valuable, is age and rarity. In other words, not exactly something that happens when everybody and their cat ran out and bought one copy of the "once in a lifetime comics event!" in original cover, variant cover, foil cover, holographic cover, sleeved and boarded, on display and a second set for storage in a climate-controlled box tucked away in a closet.

Comic writers can keep going and continue under another brand.

Unless their marketable industry-relevant skills are lackluster, and only really have social contacts and identity markers that make them good targets for short-term gimmick hiring. Then they're the first to get thrown under the bus when the industry can no longer resist the forces of entropy. Which is, sadly, what's bound to happen with the state of the industry as it is.

I feel there is a certain irony that as women seem to be moving towards comfort and functionality from looks, men appear to be going the other way.

As an example, I've been bugged by YouTube videos suggesting I need a good quality pubic hair trimmer. The idea of shaving my pubes has literally never occurred to me until this advert started telling me it was the thing to do. I happily say I remain completely unconvinced, and short of requiring some sort of groin operation I intend to keep cutting implements far from my genitals.

For the the latter's a matter of comfort rather than aesthetic, but I live in a climate that gets uncomfortably hot in summer and the struggle against swamp crotch and chafing are real.

What's ironic, as far as men's underwear goes, is it seems men are managing to skip the "looks good but uncomfortable" phase of underwear evolution. The marketing of Andrew Christian beyond the gay market was a real godsend, because supportive, comfortable, and aesthetically-pleasing underwear is rapidly becoming the norm in a post "tighty whities or boxers, or if you're feeling adventurous, boxer briefs" market. I transitioned to pouch and C-ring underwear years ago, and I never looked back simply because of the comfort. As far as I'm concerned, "form factor" is just a bonus.

 

[BrawlMan]

The bigger problem with that in the '90s, were comic book companies tried to cash in on the speculation and collectors' market by making everything a "collectors' edition"...which is where all the foil cover, variant cover, limited-edition reprint, not-quite-TPB compilation, shit came from in addition to annualized "famous character dies...permanently...we promise!" and "universe reboot" nonsense.

Completely neglecting that what makes comic books collectors' items and valuable, is age and rarity. In other words, not exactly something that happens when everybody and their cat ran out and bought one copy of the "once in a lifetime comics event!" in original cover, variant cover, foil cover, holographic cover, sleeved and boarded, on display and a second set for storage in a climate-controlled box tucked away in a closet.


Unless their marketable industry-relevant skills are lackluster, and only really have social contacts and identity markers that make them good targets for short-term gimmick hiring. Then they're the first to get thrown under the bus when the industry can no longer resist the forces of entropy. Which is, sadly, what's bound to happen with the state of the industry as it is.


For the the latter's a matter of comfort rather than aesthetic, but I live in a climate that gets uncomfortably hot in summer and the struggle against swamp crotch and chafing are real.

What's ironic, as far as men's underwear goes, is it seems men are managing to skip the "looks good but uncomfortable" phase of underwear evolution. The marketing of Andrew Christian beyond the gay market was a real godsend, because supportive, comfortable, and aesthetically-pleasing underwear is rapidly becoming the norm in a post "tighty whities or boxers, or if you're feeling adventurous, boxer briefs" market. I transitioned to pouch and C-ring underwear years ago, and I never looked back simply because of the comfort. As far as I'm concerned, "form factor" is just a bonus.

I've been into boxer briefs since I was 16 and I never looked back. Boxers have too much air flow, and briefs can get too tight at times. Boxer briefs is the way to go.

 

[Agema]

What's ironic, as far as men's underwear goes, is it seems men are managing to skip the "looks good but uncomfortable" phase of underwear evolution. The marketing of Andrew Christian beyond the gay market was a real godsend, because supportive, comfortable, and aesthetically-pleasing underwear is rapidly becoming the norm in a post "tighty whities or boxers, or if you're feeling adventurous, boxer briefs" market. I transitioned to pouch and C-ring underwear years ago, and I never looked back simply because of the comfort. As far as I'm concerned, "form factor" is just a bonus.

Well, I've never really cared that much about how my underwear looks because basically no-one (except my partner) sees my underwear - as it's usually supposed to be. In fact, I take a perverse joy out of buying stuff with the most ghastly patterns I can find, although unfortunately people have got a lot more boring about designs in the last 5 years.

I started with tradittional Y-fronts: never liked boxers - too much dangling and swaying. These days I wear hipsters, because I find most boxer-briefs longer on the leg than I like.

 

[The Rogue Wolf]

As an example, I've been bugged by YouTube videos suggesting I need a good quality pubic hair trimmer.

I know the one, and I automatically resent any brand that tells me I need to buy it to "feel better about myself".

I've been into boxer briefs since I was 16 and I never looked back. Boxers have too much air flow, and briefs can get too tight at times. Boxer briefs is the way to go.

I tried them once (I bought them by accident); the leg material always bunches up underneath my pants. I can't stand that.

 

[Eacaraxe]

...although unfortunately people have got a lot more boring about designs in the last 5 years.

Some brands break the mold, but they're marketed to an almost-exclusively LGBT audience. I mean, there aren't too many tactful ways to point out Andrew Christian jock straps that have rainbow heart patterns on the fabric and the word "GAY" monogrammed on the waist strap, are in fact marketed to gay men.

I started with tradittional Y-fronts: never liked boxers - too much dangling and swaying. These days I wear hipsters, because I find most boxer-briefs longer on the leg than I like.

I'd actually suggest at least trying out the pouch-style underwear. Briefs and boxer briefs with pouches sewn into them are more commonplace now, and they really do make a world of difference in comfort. They provide nice level of support for your junk without everything getting squished together and all the drawbacks that entails. Sure they may feel weird and awkward the first couple times wearing them, but that fades quickly.

 

[BrawlMan]

I know the one, and I automatically resent any brand that tells me I need to buy it to "feel better about myself".


I tried them once (I bought them by accident); the leg material always bunches up underneath my pants. I can't stand that.

I know what you mean. That's a flaw with boxer briefs. You always have to get the snag free ones to be the most comfortable. Those tend to be the most expensive ones, depending on where you're getting them from.

 

[Agema]

Oh please gimme a break. Must we mince every word now and can't make any comment in jest?

That rather depends on one's track record and the context in which the comment is delivered to make clear it is a joke, with additional consideratiom that written communication often unable to convey tone which oral communication can.

If there's one thing I know from many, many years of writing messages, it's to take nothing for granted about how people may perceive your comments.

 

[deleted20220709]

DELETED

 

[Agema]

I tried them once (I bought them by accident); the leg material always bunches up underneath my pants. I can't stand that.

Yes, I found that with boxers and boxer briefs. That's why I went for hipsters, because there's so much less material to bunch up.

 

[Chimpzy]

I've been into boxer briefs since I was 16 and I never looked back. Boxers have too much air flow, and briefs can get too tight at times. Boxer briefs is the way to go.

Also a boxer briefs man, for the same reasons. Tho I sometimes swap for trunks if it gets real hot in summer, but thay're basically the same with slightly shorter legs. And girlfriend prefers how boxer briefs look. Mentions of my ass being nice in them have been made. Comfort is still the main reason, but you know, take whatever bonuses you can get.

Also, love how this thread has derailed.

 

[Gordon_4]

Also a boxer briefs man, for the same reasons. Tho I sometimes swap for trunks if it gets real hot in summer, but thay're basically the same with slightly shorter legs. And girlfriend prefers how boxer briefs look. Mentions of my ass being nice in them have been made. Comfort is still the main reason, but you know, take whatever bonuses you can get.

Also, love how this thread has derailed.

I wouldn't call it derailment. Its still about underwear. Just not women's underwear. More like........adjacent topic of interest.

 

[Kwak]

Oh please gimme a break. Must we mince every word now and can't make any comment in jest? It is obvious that those who shout this the loudest are only the ones who want to appear virtuous while not respecting women in the slightest when they can get away with it ie the actual misoginysts.

Why is it obvious? Have studies been done?

...never liked boxers - too much dangling and swaying.

But that's the single benefit to being a man - the jiggling of your bits.

 

[Chimpzy]

But that's the single benefit to being a man - the jiggling of your bits.

 

[stroopwafel]

Why is it obvious? Have studies been done?

Ever heard of the term 'hypocrisy'? Take any example of someone with a 'holier than thou' attitude like a politician, religious devotee, SJW or other public figure and be amazed when they actually turn out to be morally bankrupt. Wanting to appear virtuous and having a judgemental attitude while actually not being a good person is as old as mankind. It's even in the bible:

''Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.''
Matthew 7:5