Scott Cawthon (FNaF guy) cancelled

TheMysteriousGX

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Explain Charlie's Angels' latest reboot then. It's not just a issue with Ghostbusters. Explain Batwoman which has nothing near that kind of budget. It's a repeating pattern. Terminator Dark FATE! Actually nevermind I really enjoyed Dark Fate.
And there's the crux of the issue: you don't care if it's a thing you like. Nobody was clamoring for a Charlie's Angels reboot. That the reboot did poorly is expected. Kinda the norm for Charlie's Angels. Kinda the norm for reboots of 15 year old dead franchises in general, but you only complain about the "woke" ones
Batwoman is doing fine catering to it's audience. It's audience does not include you, sorry for the revelation.
 
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CriticalGaming

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2. The plural of anecdote is not data. Show me real sales figures as compared to the budget and then we'll talk. If you want to make commercial success your metric, you kind of need to take this into account.
Ghostbusters 2016:



(Critics thought it was okay, but the movie going audience clearly didn't. It's public opinion on whether a movie was good or not right?


Terminator Dark Fate:



Terminatore is interesting because despite being a box office flop. People and critics reviewed it well. Just nobody went around to see it I guess. https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/terminator_dark_fate


Batwoman (CW TV show)
Critics love it but again the public hates it and the public is where the money is made. https://www.rottentomatoes.com/tv/batwoman



I mean, I don't really know what to tell you.
 

BrawlMan

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We can say the same thing about the lack of diversity as well.
That is not a boogeyman, because it still does happen in entertainment circles. Yes, there are more a opportunities that have arised for PoC, but there are still plenty of circles in Hollywood and entertainment industry where blacks/PoC are exploited, never given the credit they're due, or can't get work or much work, or are only brought to play cliched stereotypes. Case and point right fucking here!


It's always been going on. You've been oblivious, don't wanna think, and been bought in to a lie.
 
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BrawlMan

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Would not let me do the full post for some dumb reason.

You yourself in this post list tons of things featuring PoC's and women at large. And having great diverse characters has never really been that big of a problem since 1980 and beyond imo. While at the same time saying all PoC driven media is something that people don't want to see, doesn't explain the success and boom of Rap, R&B, and Hip Hop which is majorly driven by PoC artists or the popularity of films like Friday and Black Panther.
Yes it has and still is. Not as big as certain other eras, but there have bee many problems. You choose to only look at the one (mostly white) view. While that is nice and all, black people are more than just Hip-Hop and R&B. Not to mention, we've had our music stolen from and repackaged to appeal to "white" audiences or those that hate anythings created or influenced by blacks.

Also, during the 90s and 2000s, most of those execs in Hollywood constantly claimed how no one wants to see a black led superhero movie for years. Feeding that lie to everyone. Yes, there's Blade and Meteor Man, but the former was just one franchise, and the latter has a niche/cult following. We should always be more than one or two. Yet back then, here's the 1200th gangster or "ghetto" flick we've seen a million times. They gave representation when being hoodlums, bad guys, or destroying ourselves and each other in the most shallow manner possible back in the 90s and 2000s. They're us and everyone else lies. It still happens now, but not as much, yet more improvement should always be there.

Though I suppose there is an argument for the difference between including political statements up front and center. Like Spider-Man directly talking about a real-life movement in BLM. Versus having those political themes and stories wrapped up purely in the fictional sense. X-Men has always been about "racism bad" but they conveyed that message entirely within the wrap of the fictional mutants v. humans. The message was still the same, but the flavor was easier to handle. At least this was through the 00's, I have no idea wtf they're doing now.
X-Men became less about racism over the years and more so turned in to gay rights. I like X-Men, but the whole racism angel becomes less effective when most of your characters are white and not PoC. This is more so a problem with the films, than the comics and most cartoon adaptions, but it was still there. Mainly the comics; most of the cartoons and anime adaption fixed that issue.

By the way, the pride logos are gone from Twitter as they no longer care about the gays in July.
Thank you for proving my point. And there it is.

BTW: One of your responses to my quote is in the quote itself. The "Where the fuck were you" rant.
 

CriticalGaming

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Yes, there's Blade and Meteor Man, but the former was just one franchise, and the latter has a niche/cult following.
Everytime you forget SPAWN I get more and more upset with you :D. Spawn was amazing! STOP FORGETTING SPAWN! Michael Jai White is one of my favorite Martial Arts actors! Dude is super nice too, met him on a flight and we chatted about comics and shit the whole time, was awesome.

I like X-Men, but the whole racism angel becomes less effective when most of your characters are white and not PoC.
See this is I think the mentality that hurts the argument in my eyes. I get that a lot, I'm white therefore I have no right to complain. Oh these people aren't PoC's therefore the analogy doesn't apply.

What fucking difference does it make? Racism is racism period. I'm Germen/Jewish and my family fled Europe in the late 1930's or early 40's I can't remember the exact date. White people have been through shit too, and I hate that ya'll just wanna throw that shit out like we couldn't have possibly ever struggled just because we white. There are lots of other reasons that people may have been oppressed than just their skin color.

And it's gross how people just hand wave it like Black folks is the only folks able to claim suffering.

My Step-father is black and a cop and I asked him how many times he has dealt with racism or being called a N**B, and he could only think of like 3 times in his entire life. There are many reasons why some people experience a lot of racism, and others of the same color skin get a lot of it. Could be locational, could be attitude, luck, all sorts of shit.

Again obviously racism is still out there, but racism is not exclusive to PoC's.

BTW: One of your responses to my quote is in the quote itself. The "Where the fuck were you" rant.
I put my responses in BOLD in that Quote to just answer your questions. the answers aren't really important though.
 
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TheMysteriousGX

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Ghostbusters 2016:


(Critics thought it was okay, but the movie going audience clearly didn't. It's public opinion on whether a movie was good or not right?
A 49/51 split is not the massive failure you're pretending it is. That's kind of the definition of "okay" and that's after a review bombing.
Batwoman (CW TV show)
Critics love it but again the public hates it and the public is where the money is made. https://www.rottentomatoes.com/tv/batwoman



I mean, I don't really know what to tell you.
Season 3 starts in October.
 
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Buyetyen

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I mean, I don't really know what to tell you.
So that's it. That's your evidence. A couple of under-performing movies, one of which got review-bombed and still averages out to okay and a TV show with a cult following that's getting a 3rd season. I think you're making the mistake of assuming your taste speaks for everyone else's.
 
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BrawlMan

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Spawn was amazing! STOP FORGETTING SPAWN! Michael Jai White is one of my favorite Martial Arts actors! Dude is super nice too, met him on a flight and we chatted about comics and shit the whole time, was awesome.
I was in the middle of rant, so forgive me. I big fan of Jai was well, but he was done dirty on Spawn. Plus, I prefer Keith David as Spawn, and the HBO series did the character and its mythos justice. Something the film never got right.

See this is I think the mentality that hurts the argument in my eyes. I get that a lot, I'm white therefore I have no right to complain. Oh these people aren't PoC's therefore the analogy doesn't apply.
I never said you did not have the right to complain.

What fucking difference does it make? Racism is racism period. I'm Germen/Jewish and my family fled Europe in the late 1930's or early 40's I can't remember the exact date. White people have been through shit too, and I hate that ya'll just wanna throw that shit out like we couldn't have possibly ever struggled just because we white. There are lots of other reasons that people may have been oppressed than just their skin color.

And it's gross how people just hand wave it like Black folks is the only folks able to claim suffering.
You are correct, but blacks have gotten screwed over a lot and still compard to certain other races. I'm not saying other did not suffer either, but there is a totem pole effect, and you can always expect black to be at the bottom. You have people that treat Indians and Asians with contempt, but will say at least you're not black! Brainwashing them in to thinking that as long as we're not dark-skinned, black, too dark, they'll accept us in to being "white" or one of them. It still happend today, and as of recently with COVID, shows full of shit and hypocritical that thinking is. There was a lot of Asian hate going on this year and last year, so that went out the window all of sudden, and they found themselves at the bottom with us.

I do thank you for acknowledging other types of racism and hate. My main problem though with X-Men is that creates this weird dissonance where it's about racism, yet most of the characters are not PoC nor do they go to deep in to the implications at times. Like I said before, this is more so a problem with the live action movies. Though the comics had this problem too, though there were attempts to corrects this. What does not help in X-Men films case is that First Class has this problem where only the colored characters die or work with the villains and later Magneto. You can't ignore something like that, and I am glad people of all types called out on that unfortunate implication.

My Step-father is black and a cop and I asked him how many times he has dealt with racism or being called a N**B, and he could only think of like 3 times in his entire life. There are many reasons why some people experience a lot of racism, and others of the same color skin get a lot of it. Could be locational, could be attitude, luck, all sorts of shit.
How lucky for him. Others aren't. I appreciate you for sharing, but many others got it worse than him depending on where they live in the states or other parts of the world.

Again obviously racism is still out there, but racism is not exclusive to PoC's.
Yet, the PoC usually get worse than those that are white or pass off as white.

I put my responses in BOLD in that Quote to just answer your questions. the answers aren't really important though.
I noticed.
 

BrawlMan

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So that's it. That's your evidence. A couple of under-performing movies, one of which got review-bombed and still averages out to okay and a TV show with a cult following that's getting a 3rd season. I think you're making the mistake of assuming your taste speaks for everyone else's.
And that is his major flaw.
 

CriticalGaming

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So that's it. That's your evidence. A couple of under-performing movies, one of which got review-bombed and still averages out to okay and a TV show with a cult following that's getting a 3rd season. I think you're making the mistake of assuming your taste speaks for everyone else's.
And that is his major flaw.


You want me to dig out everything? I don't have that kind of time to defend that shit on an internet forum. You wanna dismiss my POV because I can't give you 20 years of film and video game history, fine dismiss my points.

I'm not even using MY tastes! Stop putting words in my mouth. I'm just showcasing the collective opinions I've seen. You don't wanna credit that, then fine, but that goes both ways.

You want evidence go get it yourself. Show me successful "woke" entertainment. But if i use your metric, don't @ me unless you show me 50+ examples.
 

BrawlMan

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You wanna dismiss my POV because I can't give you 20 years of film and video game history, fine dismiss my points.
I didn't nor was I trying. If I got too personal, my bad, but you do have a habit of being or acting oblivious about certain social issues in or out of the entertainment industry. And you go way overboard trying to stick it to self-righteous "SJWs" who spend way too much time on Twitter, along with their idiotic other halves as well. I'll end there, so not get you in to a further bad mood. For now.


You want evidence go get it yourself. Show me successful "woke" entertainment.
I don't need to, it's just another Red scare and boogeyman. Just another shallow corporate pandering trying to latch on the bandwagon. Nothing more and nothing less. There's plenty out there that get represntation right, but people and society will always need more. We should not stop at 1 or 2 claim nothing else should or can't be done. Be great. Be better.
 

Buyetyen

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You want evidence go get it yourself. Show me successful "woke" entertainment. But if i use your metric, don't @ me unless you show me 50+ examples.
Burden's not on me, bro. Besides, there's the problem of even trying to define "woke" because it seems as if for something to be woke and thus bad it just has to have the lead character be a woman or PoC.
 

CriticalGaming

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If I got too personal, my bad, but you do have a habit of being or acting oblivious about certain social issues in or out of the entertainment industry.
It's all good man.

Look I'm not against social issues, nor do I deny that there are some things that need societal work. But as a cis-white dude, I hate being accused of being racist or sexist by default.

Nothing makes non-bigoted people become bigoted more than being ACCUSED of being bigoted. It's like the "marginalized" are creating their own enemies, thus creating justification for their issues that were most made up originally.
 

Buyetyen

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Look I'm not against social issues, nor do I deny that there are some things that need societal work. But as a cis-white dude, I hate being accused of being racist or sexist by default.

Nothing makes non-bigoted people become bigoted more than being ACCUSED of being bigoted. It's like the "marginalized" are creating their own enemies, thus creating justification for their issues that were most made up originally.
First of all, I don't think you have issues with women by default, I think that because of things you said.

Second, hurt fee-fees are not a valid excuse for becoming a bigot.

Third, if you want to convince people that you're not racist, maybe don't tell minorities that their problems were made up until they antagonized you into making them a reality.
 
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Dwarvenhobble

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Yeah superheroes are weird because people don't usually connect the dots very well.

Though I suppose there is an argument for the difference between including political statements up front and center. Like Spider-Man directly talking about a real-life movement in BLM. Versus having those political themes and stories wrapped up purely in the fictional sense. X-Men has always been about "racism bad" but they conveyed that message entirely within the wrap of the fictional mutants v. humans. The message was still the same, but the flavor was easier to handle. At least this was through the 00's, I have no idea wtf they're doing now.
It's the difference between allegory and message mongering.
Allegory tends to work better because it addresses situations without the real life baggage and preconceptions people might have about the things and so they're not dug into pre-existing position which can make them actually learn other peoples positions not merely dismiss them because of the movement name they belong to..


I'm here to kill Chaos!
Maxwell Smart is that you?

getsmart_toomanychiefs_kaos.png
 

CriticalGaming

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First of all, I don't think you have issues with women by default, I think that because of things you said.
You can thot what you want to thot, it doesn't make it true.

I criticize shitty behavior, because nobody should be exempt from that regardless of gender or color.

Second, hurt fee-fees are not a valid excuse for becoming a bigot.
Neither does it justify accusing someone of bigotry.

Third, if you want to convince people that you're not racist, maybe don't tell minorities that their problems were made up until they antagonized you into making them a reality.
Did i say they were making it all up? It's more than minorities we are talking about in the scope of things, but whatever you want I guess.

It's funny how your contributions to most discussions could best be summed up with Eyeroll-emoji's.
 

BrawlMan

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I hate being accused of being racist or sexist by default.
I was not accusing you of any of that. With that said, you have to start looking at more than one lane or direction. Nor be too dismissive of other peoples logical points, regardless if you agree or disagree.

Nothing makes non-bigoted people become bigoted more than being ACCUSED of being bigoted. It's like the "marginalized" are creating their own enemies, thus creating justification for their issues that were most made up originally.
I dislike false accusations too (and do whatever I can to prevent that), but most non-bigoted people don't become bigoted of being accused. Some, yes, but that is fucking rare.
 

Dwarvenhobble

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And there's the crux of the issue: you don't care if it's a thing you like. Nobody was clamoring for a Charlie's Angels reboot. That the reboot did poorly is expected. Kinda the norm for Charlie's Angels. Kinda the norm for reboots of 15 year old dead franchises in general, but you only complain about the "woke" ones
Batwoman is doing fine catering to it's audience. It's audience does not include you, sorry for the revelation.
Batwoman doing fine?
Really?
Its a show connected to Batman, DC's biggest property right now
It's having it's ass kicked by Stargirl
It had it's ass kicked by Legends of Tomorrow

Batwoman's ratings are the kind of level where if it were a Sci-Fi how it would be canned now. Unless DC is giving flat licencing and not different pricing based on popularity then Batwoman is actually failing even harder as the Bat licence even a Batwoman one will be more expensive than others just due to the Bat family popularity due to the Batman connection.


So that's it. That's your evidence. A couple of under-performing movies, one of which got review-bombed and still averages out to okay and a TV show with a cult following that's getting a 3rd season. I think you're making the mistake of assuming your taste speaks for everyone else's.
Yet thats the evidence being presented as people being racist / sexist and needing to be corrected and called out............

A point I've made before, people yelled to make James Bond a woman while ignoring Atomic Blonde in cinemas in the past.
 
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CriticalGaming

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but most non-bigoted people don't become bigoted of being accused. Some, yes, but that is fucking rare.
That's mostly meant as a joke TBF. But I can see how being called bigoted or whatever would lead to an argument in which the accused would say some bigoted name calling just out of frustration.

There are some that believe even uttering a word under any context means you are 100% racist end of story. And that's frustrating because things done in anger don't always equal real feelings.
 

Dwarvenhobble

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That's mostly meant as a joke TBF. But I can see how being called bigoted or whatever would lead to an argument in which the accused would say some bigoted name calling just out of frustration.

There are some that believe even uttering a word under any context means you are 100% racist end of story. And that's frustrating because things done in anger don't always equal real feelings.
The funny thing to me is calling people bigots etc, it's become like real life parodying what were comedy sketches like Lenny Henry's "Is it because I'm Black" sketches


Or a more extreme example Balls of Steel's Toju the militant black guy were making fun of


The very extreme attitude of calling minor things bigoted or accusing people of bigotry when things aren't going the way people want.