New York Hospital to Pause Delivering Babies After Unvaccinated Workers Resign En Masse

Agema

You have no authority here, Jackie Weaver
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The Oklahoman seems to have a successfully stubborn paywall,
How convenient.

That article is an op-ed repackaging of exactly the NPR article. It adds no further information... and there's no reason to believe the author has any source at all other than NPR.
Wrong, it does contain information that does not appear to be in the NPR article, such as the comments from Adam Soltani which do not appear to be in the NPR article. It is as far as I can see a local Oklahoman outlet, which contains numerous other articles on this topic, and the author of the piece is a (left-leaning) local Oklahoman journalist with a day job at another local newspaper. One might reasonably hypothesise that they know what's going on in their home state politics without the need for NPR to tell them.

I don't know why you are dying on this hill.
I think as commonly happens you are trying to hammer a square peg of real world evidence into the round hole of your beliefs.

Again, you are trying to argue here that the man Oklahoman Republicans voted in to represent their party does not represent the party. I do accept that this is potentially true (as previously stated) but it moves the burden onto you to demonstrate otherwise.

Thus NPR has drawn the most reasonable conclusion from the evidence reasonably available. You are wrong to criticise them for doing so just because you don't like the outcome.
 

tstorm823

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NPR didn't "find a person to make the GOP look silly and hateful." The state GOP elected this person as their leader. If the elected leader of the state party makes the GOP look hateful and silly, that is solely the fault of state GOP members for electing a hateful and silly person.

How do you not realize the utter doublespeak nonsense you're posting to absolve the GOP of the statements made by the person they chose to lead their party?
So if every Democrat in Congress voted for something, let's say gun control, and Jaime Harrison opposed it (made that a link, because there's no way anyone knows who that is, which extra illustrates how little the state equivalent matters), you would defend a headline claiming "Congress Passes Gun Control Measure, Despite the Democratic Party's Objections"? Would that be an honest headline? Or would you suspect the author of that headline is deliberately generating a controversy?
Wrong, it does contain information that does not appear to be in the NPR article, such as the comments from Adam Soltani which do not appear to be in the NPR article.
That statement isn't new pertinent information, it's a statement of opinion.
It is as far as I can see a local Oklahoman outlet, which contains numerous other articles on this topic, and the author of the piece is a (left-leaning) local Oklahoman journalist with a day job at another local newspaper. One might reasonably hypothesise that they know what's going on in their home state politics without the need for NPR to tell them.
His "day job" is "owner/editor". You should not be defending a man who owns his own newspaper, but chooses to rip an article from NPR and moonlight on another paper to run his version. That's insanely sketchy.

The fact is, all the information needed to run a piece about the facebook video rejecting refugeees has existed for several weeks. This local newspaper man you think doesn't need NPR to tell him things did not say a word until the day after NPR ran the story. You may think he doesn't need NPR to tell him what's going on, but that's what he did.
Thus NPR has drawn the most reasonable conclusion from the evidence reasonably available. You are wrong to criticise them for doing so just because you don't like the outcome.
The most reasonable conclusion from the evidence reasonably available is that Republicans and Democrats in Oklahoma are both working to welcome the refugees. That's what all the reporting was previously. An unwatched Facebook video from 4 weeks ago is not reasonably available evidence of anything newsworthy, so why did they dig that up? You know why.
 

Agema

You have no authority here, Jackie Weaver
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So if every Democrat in Congress voted for something
Okay, I don't need to go past this point to tell you that you need to go away and construct a better and more suitable analogy.

That statement isn't new pertinent information, it's a statement of opinion.
Irrespective of your petty quibbling about what "information" and "opinion" are, it is content not in the NPR report, and thus indicates independent effort of the author accessing other sources.

Are you telling us you do not understand the difference between multiple news organisations reporting on the same events and ripping off other sources? It is not unusual, for instance, to see news media write "In an interview with XBC on Tuesday, the GOP chair said..." and effectively recount the interview from other media. Needless to say, it conveys roughly the same information, for obvious reasons. It is not, however, a "rip-off".

Secondly, you have acted like no-one knew about this until that NPR report. But what about this article from 8th September, three whole weeks earlier than the NPR report (same journalist)? This story has been doing the rounds in Oklahoma since the GOP chair made his claims. This context also applies to the mayor: was he really unaware his own state party chair had, nearly a month earlier, come out against the refugees, as had been reported well prior to that NPR piece?

His "day job" is "owner/editor". You should not be defending a man who owns his own newspaper, but chooses to rip an article from NPR and moonlight on another paper to run his version. That's insanely sketchy.
Firstly, see above. Secondly I have literally no idea what world you live in. Inviting comment from journalists from other media companies is common. Actually, I know what world you live in. It's the world where you descend to ever shittier, illogical and reality-denying arguments rather than accept you've made a misjudgement.

The fact is, all the information needed to run a piece about the facebook video rejecting refugeees has existed for several weeks. This local newspaper man you think doesn't need NPR to tell him things did not say a word until the day after NPR ran the story. You may think he doesn't need NPR to tell him what's going on, but that's what he did.
Okay, wow, so you have clocked the story was around much earlier. But the selectivity to which you have considered what that means speaks volumes. As above, it was reported on within days.

As for the other part, that's just so much waffle. For all you know, his newspaper covered the story with other staff; he was invited to comment in the other newspaper, etc. You have no fucking idea what's gone on, you're just making shit up like you always do to justify your poor decision making. And then you act the prize hypocrite and complain about the media making shit up.
 

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You have no fucking idea what's gone on, you're just making shit up like you always do to justify your poor decision making.
Says the person who has wholesale invented events that didn't happen. You have yet to find even a second person to agree with that man, despite your confident assertion that there's a meaningful division among Republicans. I don't need to make an argument, I don't need to construct an analogy, you are unintentionally all the evidence that I need.

I say they framed the article dishonestly to make you think worse about what Republicans at large are doing. You've tried to argue exactly that, without any reason to other than their implication. You can, at best, make a case that they misled you unintentionally, but the outcome remains that you ( and most reading that article) are misinformed on the event because of their editorial decisions. And I, the person skeptical of their headline, correctly identified the facts of the story.
 

Agema

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Says the person who has wholesale invented events that didn't happen.
At core I am really just taking the Oklahoma GOP chair and an Oklahoman Republican mayor at their word. On the grounds that fair chance they know what the score is in Oklahoman Republican politics.

It's you sitting there 1000 miles away in another state thinking you know better on the basis of nothing but supposition and bullshit.

I say they framed the article dishonestly to make you think worse about what Republicans at large are doing. You've tried to argue exactly that,
No, you read that article and think it portrays Republicans - if you mean the "man on the street" voter - very well, plus of course some senior politicians. The Oklahoman GOP as an organiastion less so rosy.

But we can expand to consider what Republicans think if you want to go there:

So, polls suggest it's very credible that Americans - Republicans more so than Democrats - can be iffy on Afghan resettlement. Trump associates - and let's remember the Republican Party is still in the grip of Trump - are actively rousing Republicans against refugees. So there's evidence that the worse in what Republicans at large are doing is definitely out there, alongside the charity and support that many other Republicans feel. It's perfectly credible that the Oklahoma GOP is in the grip of the worse.
 
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Avnger

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At core I am really just taking the Oklahoma GOP chair and an Oklahoman Republican mayor at their word. On the grounds that fair chance they know what the score is in Oklahoman Republican politics.

It's you sitting there 1000 miles away in another state thinking you know better on the basis of nothing but supposition and bullshit.



No, you read that article and think it portrays Republicans - if you mean the "man on the street" voter - very well, plus of course some senior politicians. The Oklahoman GOP as an organiastion less so rosy.

But we can expand to consider what Republicans think if you want to go there:

So, polls suggest it's very credible that Americans - Republicans more so than Democrats - can be iffy on Afghan resettlement. Trump associates - and let's remember the Republican Party is still in the grip of Trump - are actively rousing Republicans against refugees. So there's evidence that the worse in what Republicans at large are doing is definitely out there, alongside the charity and support that many other Republicans feel. It's perfectly credible that the Oklahoma GOP is in the grip of the worse.
But that makes Republicans look bad, and Republicans are, by definition*, the good guys. Therefore, it must be fake news. Checkmate liberals.

*Since I identify as a Republican and I am a good guy (because I would never be a baddie), it only logically follows that Republicans must be good.
 
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Phoenixmgs

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You are so bad at this. THIS IS A NUMBERS GAME. Getting covid gives you like 70% not to catch one of the variants, getting the vaccine on top of that bumps it up to 90% immunity. Viruses mutate and immunity wanes, and this virus is viral as fuck so we need to actually be taking steps to nip this in the bud, no sitting on our hands being dip shits who don't take this crap seriously. If we had a vaccine with 100% immunity then I would say "fuck it", let those who don't want the shot not get it, maybe they will get sick and resolve the issue of them being stupid and selfish, but we don't. We have to deal with an extremely viral disease that can mutate and get vaccinated/immune people sick again.

Also, NO calling the variants by where they came from is monstrously stupid. Not only does it increase hate crimes against people of that nationality but it also doesn't help if there are multiple variants from a location. Say there are 5 from India, gonna call if "sars covid india v4"? I think you just want people to be beaten in the streets. I think you just want to be racist.
Yes, it bumps immunity but for a short period. It doesn't bump it from 70 to 90 permanently, it's akin to a consumable item in a video game. Also, what data says that? I believe like all the immunity studies but the flawed Kansas one says natural immunity provides better protection against the Indian variant, especially the Israel study. That makes sense from just a theory perspective as the vaccines only have your immune system recognize the spike protein while natural immune response to the virus gives you broader immunity to more than just the spike protein. And guess what mutated in the Indian variant, the spike protein. Also, a study has shown that those infected INCREASED their memory B cells to covid 6-8 months after infection and 92% of them tested positive for CD4+ T cells. Antibodies aren't the end-all-be-all of immunity. Nothing is going to be 100% ever. The goal is to get a danger down to acceptable risk levels. Driving to work/store/buddy's house/etc isn't 100% safe. Having immunity to covid is almost certainly safer than driving so why are you so fearful of covid but drive everyday (probably, as most do)? Unless the health organizations are holding back data that the vaccines aren't as safe as they are saying they are, then covid w/immunity is now within everyone's risk tolerance so it should be treated as such.

Attacking people for being where some disease or variant came from is monstrously stupid as well. Who attacked British people over the UK variant? Who's attacked Indians over the Indian variant? Do we attack the Spanish for the flu? Naming variants after the Greek alphabet might get people attacking Greeks for creating the alphabet because that's as stupid a reason as attacking Brits over the UK variant. Also, there's more places in the world than there are Greek letters so you're still gonna run into that problem you cited. It's just ridiculous that everything has to be an non-offensive as possible, I've always gone by the Stephen Fry logic of offensive even before I knew of the quote as I've never been offended by anything in my life (and I'm Polish, it's not like there aren't books of Polish jokes).
 

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True, a lot of people probably don't need the vaccine because they've already had covid. But...

1) How do you propose to discriminate between the ones that would benefit and the ones that don't? What test exists to do this reliably?
2) How do you propose to ensure that people excused the vaccine can do so? Surely we need to mandate a PCR antibody test to excuse people from the vaccine?
You can, you know, discuss it with your doctor. If you had tested positive for covid and were sick, you obviously had covid. If you have antibodies for covid, you had covid. If you were in the hospital for covid, you had covid. And the proof that someone got vaccinated vs just buying a easily obtainable fake vaccination card? You gotta trust people to some fucking degree, this is getting ridiculous. Why not require video footage of you getting the shot from like 4 different angles or something? Look at Norway and Singapore now, no restrictions whatsoever, no mandates whatsoever.

3) How much immunity do we need, and how do we measure that?
4) How much does immunity wane, and how do we measure that? For instance, antibodies are part of the body's immune response. If you have lower antibody levels, you obviously are likely to have a weaker immune response to some degree. So we need to ask how much it affects risk: 5%? 10%? 40%?

You're trying to discuss shades of grey with black or white. You are not going to get to a good answer.
The problem right now is that everyone is so obsessed with antibody levels, it's only one part of your immune system. Circulating antibody titers are not predictive of T cell memory, antibodies are basically a red herring. I'm pretty sure we don't know how to tell if someone has enough immunity to be immune from serious disease anyway so why make some stupid antibody level as the requirement when that's not gonna be based in science but pulled out someone's ass? The only thing I would say is that immunocompromised people probably have issue being immune with prior infection or vaccination or both and maybe give them a yearly booster if the data shows that they are getting infected unproportionally. If you had a very minor case of covid or asymptomatic case, RECOMMEND (not mandate) a single vaccine dose, since I think the data says that they might not get a full on immune response, that's what I recall but I could be wrong, plus we keep tying a good response to antibody levels and that's very flawed. The data definitely says a 2nd dose provides no benefit to previously infected so that's another reason why a mandate of FULL vaccination is completely fucking stupid as you're making people get something that will only cause potential harm. For the elderly, the US might've fucked up the vaccine spacing so they might need a 3rd dose, then you can look at the UK (with proper vaccine spacing) to see if elderly are going to the hospital more over time for covid, which may mean they need boosters once a year or two years or 5 years or whatever the data says.

Ah yes, because before we started recording heart disease, heart disease simply didn't exist!

Jesus wept.
Fat is not the cause of heart disease. It's just common sense; why would something humans have eaten for 200,000 years or million of years if you include human ancestors be something our bodies can't handle through evolution? But our bodies can magically adjust to eating sugar in tons in basically like 100 years of evolution when we've never done that in our history? Why don't you actually look into it?


Uhrm, that article isn't about mandates. It's about vaccine passports.

The UK is considering introducing passports which would act as a condition of entry to nightclubs. And the EU's passport is to exempt people from quaranting.

Neither are mandating vaccines/antibody tests.
:rolleyes: mandates/passports are basically the same thing. Stop arguing semantics. Basically the rest of the world has noted natural immunity is a thing while the US has not. If natural immunity is not a thing, then vaccination immunity is not a thing either because that's how fucking vaccines work. Norway and Singapore now both have 0 restrictions and 0 mandates/passports.
 

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Enough, yes. In fact, they've had the evidence to determine the dangers of sugars since the 60s, even though it has not been the most popular target for advice. More below.



This is a bizarre claim. Fats have contributed to heart disease since forever. In the modern era, meat eating in most societies has vastly increased relative to earlier ages, together with a decrease in physical activity; this has increased the risk. Sugar consumption has increased even more radically, and is likely to be an even bigger problem.

The key debate here goes back to Ancel Keys and his chief opponent Brian Yudnik. Keys thought fats were the problem, and Yudnik sugars. Keys won this debate for the most part, substantially because he had a major (albeit flawed) study behind him, and because he was much better at PR. As he carried a lot of the nutrition field with him, it's taken decades (in large part his disciples retiring and dying of old age) to replace his dogma.

Sugar is not "slow poison", it is a completely natural foodstuff.

Broadly, there are monosaccharides, e.g. glucose, fructose, and galactose. Then disaccharides, which are combinations of two linked monosaccharides (lactose, maltose, sucrose, etc.). There are also big polysaccharides made of lots of linked monosaccharides, like starch and glycogen. All sugars and polysaccharides are basically converted by the body into glucose for use. Broadly, "sugar" in vernacular means table sugar, sucrose, which is a dimer of glucose and fructose. From hereon in, I'm going to use it to describe mono- and disaccharides generally. Anyway, the long and short of this is that virtually everything you eat has sugar in it. However, consuming large quantities of it has only become prevalent since we've been able to refine things like sugar cane and sugar beet. Before then, honey and fruit were the main sources, and neither were generally consumed in huge quantities.

Glucose triggers insulin production, so large intake of sugars promotes high insulin levels, which causes fat creation / storage (hence cardiovascular problems) and over time may lead to insulin insensitivity (type II diabetes). Polysaccharides are much less problematic in this regard, because it takes a while to break them down so they don't tends to cause such extreme glucose (and thus insulin) levels.

The simple answer is modest consumption of sugars. You would however also be well advised to modest consumption of meat and many other fats, because they aren't going to do you any favours either. There's a reason statins (which reduce cholesterol) are so effective in reducing cardiovascular disease. In fact, there is the simple axiom of "moderation in all things".
Sugar in normal amounts (which is before soda and everything having added sugars in it) is fine. The thing is barely anyone (at least in the US) is intaking normal amounts of sugar (per human history). Hell, I probably eat too much sugar and I just drink water (bottle of tea w/sugar once a week to get my new water bottle) and I hardly eat sweets. And in the regard of today's normal sugar consumption in America, sugar is a slow acting poison, which is what I meant. Of course, fruit is not poison, though too much of anything is. And sugar has had a great affect on covid deaths as obesity and diabetes are IIRC the top comorbidities for covid (outside of age). Sugar is very responsible for obesity, diabetes, and heart disease. And many covid restrictions only caused more harm than benefit like not having kids playing sports, parks closed, fitness centers closed.

Quitting your job over a five minute vaccination that helps your body be better protected against a disease, that's hysteria.
Nah, hysteria is forcing everyone to get vaccinated when it will only cause harm. A 2nd dose to a previously infected person literally provides no benefit and only produces harm. You're only supposed get medical treatment when the benefits outweigh the harms, that's for literally any medical treatment. Breaking such a common sense rule is hysteria.
 

Phoenixmgs

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And did you know that nurses were quitting before the mandate? Oh yes.

---

New York State trounces everyone else with the number of nurses who have died from Covid. At the time of the chart, NY had 453 deaths due to Covid. California was the second closest at 332. And now that a bunch of New York Nurses want to ignore the evidence and the actual death of their collegues, we need to sit down and heed their selfishness as saliency?
Then, why create even more labor shortage with pointless mandates?

You do realize why nurses died from covid right? They got infected. If nurses got infected at high numbers, then a lot have natural immunity obviously. There's no reason to mandate previously infected to get vaccinated, especially fully vaccinated. A 2nd dose of vaccine to previously infected confers literally no benefit and can only produce harm.


Facts do not require belief
The CDC doesn't release all the facts. They keep saying 99% of hospitalized are unvaccinated but that stat includes all the hospitalized patients since the very start of the pandemic. Of course 99% were unvaccinated when pulling from those numbers. What's the CURRENT percent of unvaccinated vs vaccinated in hospitals today? I'm not at all trying to say/imply the vaccines don't work but I don't think they work as well as they are leading you to believe. To act like there's complete transparency with the public is a fantasy.


Do we know it is a five minute vaccination? I have a buddy that was bed ridden for 2 days after the 2nd shot. Now we have a truly fascist POTUS telling us he's losing patience with us and they're now pushing us to take a 3rd "booster shot."

And again, there is evidence you're better off just getting the bug and recovering on your own:
Example: https://theconversation.com/covid-i...doesnt-mean-you-should-try-to-catch-it-167122
It's exactly why pushing 100+ million that were previously infected to get FULLY vaccinated is asinine and completely against science as a 2nd dose literally does nothing but harm for them. If you've never been infected you shouldn't purposefully get infected and should get the vaccine, there is the one dose J&J that is way more convenient and works but the horrible messaging and pausing of that has left it kinda DOA.

Since I'm not a democrat or republican, I just love the hypocrisy. Just imagine if 2 TOP FDA officials quit during the Trump administration for trying to push something against the science, the outcry on the left would've been deafening and Trump probably gets impeached a 3rd time. Whereas the Biden administration pressures the FDA to do something not based in the left's "precious" science and causes 2 top officials to quit, I don't hear much complaining about that.
 
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Phoenixmgs

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Yeah, although, we kinda do this already. Not as much with the prove you have a reason to drive, but we do require people to pass competency to be allowed to drive. Vaccine mandates don't require you to get vaccinated no matter what, they require you to get vaccinated to participate in society.
Drivers' licenses are basically an unneeded bureaucracy of having to give the state money to be able to drive. The amount they "test" your driving competency is a joke. So many people on the roads are horrible drivers. This one guy at work got into a minor accident because the car slid in snow/ice and didn't understand why the brakes were "pushing back" on him, he didn't know what antilock brakes are. I already know to pump the brakes myself. He thinks his car is never supposed to slide with all the technology and whatnot as he got a new car last year and he gets all flustered when the car does slide. Whereas I know how to get my car out of a slide when it does happen as I've done it several times, even had to do it once going 60mph on the expressway before. Nobody is teaching or testing people's abilities to properly drive today, people don't even know they are supposed to turn and stay in the same lane so 2 people can turn at the same time.

No other country is mandating vaccines because that is against the science and keeping people out of society is bullshit. I've said this since the very start, either it's safe for everyone to do things or nobody to do things. And I had covid from literally the start (March last year) so I was fine to do whatever but I wasn't bitching I can't go to basketball game or something because it was safe for me because it's either everyone or nobody can, it's that simple. And guess who's gotten vaccinated less? Minorities that keep having policies that impair them from participating in society.


:rolleyes:
 

Agema

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You can, you know, discuss it with your doctor. If you had tested positive for covid and were sick, you obviously had covid. If you have antibodies for covid, you had covid. If you were in the hospital for covid, you had covid. And the proof that someone got vaccinated vs just buying a easily obtainable fake vaccination card? You gotta trust people to some fucking degree, this is getting ridiculous. Why not require video footage of you getting the shot from like 4 different angles or something? Look at Norway and Singapore now, no restrictions whatsoever, no mandates whatsoever.
Sure, let's just trust people. So do you leave your door unlocked because surely you can just trust people not to go in and steal your stuff?

Nor are you quite getting the point. We know that having caught covid does not guarantee you'll be okay in case of reinfection (nor does vaccination), and the chances you'll be fine probably decreases over time from the point of infection / vaccination. When I ask who will benefit, I don't mean who has had covid and who has not, I mean how do we know whether people who have had covid (or a vaccine) have developed a robust immune response?

The problem right now is that everyone is so obsessed with antibody levels, it's only one part of your immune system.
Immunity is not as simple as "yes" or "no". Prior infection to covid, having antibodies and/or reactive T/B cells simply does not guarantee you'll be fine if you are infected again. It makes it much more likely you'll be fine. And there is evidence to suggest that the strength of your immune defence will weaken over time: it absolutely stands to reason that if antibodies do anything useful at all, lower antibody levels will weaken your immune response and increase risk.
 

Agema

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Drivers' licenses are basically an unneeded bureaucracy of having to give the state money to be able to drive.
Driver licences are an absolutely crucial test for people to demonstrate they have met a minimum standard likely to avoid killing themselves and other people.

It does not make them a great driver, it doesn't mean they know everything, and it doesn't stop them backsliding in various ways in some skills. But you only need to think about the average competence of someone when they first sit behind the wheel of a car to know a driving test compels them to be a lot better than that before they are legally set loose with their one tonne death machine.
 

Worgen

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Whatever, just wash your hands.
Drivers' licenses are basically an unneeded bureaucracy of having to give the state money to be able to drive. The amount they "test" your driving competency is a joke. So many people on the roads are horrible drivers. This one guy at work got into a minor accident because the car slid in snow/ice and didn't understand why the brakes were "pushing back" on him, he didn't know what antilock brakes are. I already know to pump the brakes myself. He thinks his car is never supposed to slide with all the technology and whatnot as he got a new car last year and he gets all flustered when the car does slide. Whereas I know how to get my car out of a slide when it does happen as I've done it several times, even had to do it once going 60mph on the expressway before. Nobody is teaching or testing people's abilities to properly drive today, people don't even know they are supposed to turn and stay in the same lane so 2 people can turn at the same time.

No other country is mandating vaccines because that is against the science and keeping people out of society is bullshit. I've said this since the very start, either it's safe for everyone to do things or nobody to do things. And I had covid from literally the start (March last year) so I was fine to do whatever but I wasn't bitching I can't go to basketball game or something because it was safe for me because it's either everyone or nobody can, it's that simple. And guess who's gotten vaccinated less? Minorities that keep having policies that impair them from participating in society.
Even with this you're wrong. With Anti-lock breaks you don't want to pump the breaks, you want to hold the pedal down and let the anti-lock breaks do their job.

Austraila has a mandate, Britan has a mandate, Canada is having a mandate, Fiji has a mandate, Greece has a mandate, Hungary has a mandate, Indonesia has a mandate, Malta has a mandate, Russian has one, Saudi Arabia has one. How are you this badly informed?
 

tstorm823

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At core I am really just taking the Oklahoma GOP chair and an Oklahoman Republican mayor at their word.
A man said that a statement was not representative of Republicans he knew, especially the elected officials, and you're choosing to take his word as "there are multiple other Republicans that feel that way". You're not going to sidestep the point: you were personally convinced there was a noteworthy group of multiple Republicans objecting to Afghan refugees relocating to Oklahoma. You were convinced by articles that contained no evidence that any more than a single Republican feels that way. You have attempted to support your position with more articles about that one guy, nationwide information that actually undermines your point (if a handful of people attempt to turn the party away from the refugees, the obvious implication is that the party is currently for them), and some really sideways interpretations of people's statements to suit your needs. You were deceived into believing something that makes Republicans look worse. You actively proved my point. You can't escape that.
 

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Whatever, just wash your hands.
A man said that a statement was not representative of Republicans he knew, especially the elected officials, and you're choosing to take his word as "there are multiple other Republicans that feel that way". You're not going to sidestep the point: you were personally convinced there was a noteworthy group of multiple Republicans objecting to Afghan refugees relocating to Oklahoma. You were convinced by articles that contained no evidence that any more than a single Republican feels that way. You have attempted to support your position with more articles about that one guy, nationwide information that actually undermines your point (if a handful of people attempt to turn the party away from the refugees, the obvious implication is that the party is currently for them), and some really sideways interpretations of people's statements to suit your needs. You were deceived into believing something that makes Republicans look worse. You actively proved my point. You can't escape that.
I remember when republicans were trying to say trump didn't really represent them either. Maybe you guys just suck at choosing representatives.
 

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I remember when republicans were trying to say trump didn't really represent them either. Maybe you guys just suck at choosing representatives.
Trump got elected through infinite free publicity on the part of the left wing media. CNN wants Trump to be popular, it makes them lots of money.
 

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Trump got elected through infinite free publicity on the part of the left wing media. CNN wants Trump to be popular, it makes them lots of money.
So millions of conservative citizens didn't vote for him to represent them as president? He wasn't the Republican presidential nominee as chosen by Republican primary voters? His average support among registered Republicans wasn't 80%+ for most of his presidency? How far into reality-denial are you? Have you ever thought that it might just be easier to reconsider your current beliefs than attempting to twist yourself into these baseless rhetorical knots? It's not a bad thing to change your mind based on factual evidence...
 
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Agema

You have no authority here, Jackie Weaver
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Mar 3, 2009
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A man said that a statement was not representative of Republicans he knew, especially the elected officials, and you're choosing to take his word as "there are multiple other Republicans that feel that way".
Again, you're attempting to elide the difference between a "party" as a distinct organisational entity and a "party" in the most holistic sense of all its individual voters. Again, I would here point out the difference between the Catholic Church as an organisation, and Catholics as a large heterogenous bunch of individuals . This has been discussed and you need to engage with it, not just pretend it was never mentioned because it causes a headache for your argument.

You were convinced by...
Was I? I think that might be you projecting your own view of the world onto how I think. I have a world view dominated by philosophical skepticism and fundamental doubt about the reliability of knowledge. Thus I think of the world more about what is most reasonable to claim based on the evidence available than whether the claim is true.

The key evidence anyone has to go on is that someone who has the role of speaking for the Oklahoma GOP says that the Oklahoma GOP is against Afghan refugees, and a GOP elected official confirms that. Against that, there is... basically nothing. Individuals from the GOP, some of whom are high ranking elected officials, state they are happy to accept Afghan refugees, but none appear to deny that the state party has opposed them.

Therefore, it is fundamentally most reasonable to conclude the Oklahoma GOP opposes Afghan refugees and is at variance with a large number of its own supporters and officials. Consequently it is reasonable and fair for journalists to state so.

Against this, you deploy literally nothing but your own supposition and hypotheticals. Even if you are right that the GOP does not oppose refugees (i.e. the chair lied), this is contrary to the most reasonable interpretation of available evidence - you would be right for the wrong reasons. And thus your criticism of NPR is unjustified under either circumstance of you being right or wrong.
 

bluegate

Elite Member
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Dec 28, 2010
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Nah, hysteria is forcing everyone to get vaccinated when it will only cause harm. A 2nd dose to a previously infected person literally provides no benefit and only produces harm. You're only supposed get medical treatment when the benefits outweigh the harms, that's for literally any medical treatment. Breaking such a common sense rule is hysteria.
... But the benefits do outweigh the harm, even if not on a personal level for every individual, they do on a mass societal level.

Society as a whole greatly benefits from having a large portion of the population be vaccinated.
 
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