Travis McMichael Found Guilty of Ahmaud Arbery Murder

thebobmaster

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He faces a minimum of life in prison. All I can say is that is fantastic to see justice done, as it was in this case.
 

Fallen Soldier

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Thank god some justice was actually done here! I hope these three murderers don’t ever get out of prison for the horror they’ve done.
 

SilentPony

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Yeah the defense lawyer, Laura Hogue's, racist dog-whistle comment about Ahmaud Arbery's dirty long toenails probably wasn't the best thing to say, for her client or career.
 

gorfias

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I think the law has been followed. Sad in that I think these guys thought they were doing the right thing. But what would the alternative to finding them guilty be? A quasi right to kill anyone you thought might be doing something wrong?
 
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I think the law has been followed. Sad in that I think these guys thought they were doing the right thing. But what would the alternative to finding them guilty be? A quasi right to kill anyone you thought might be doing something wrong?
I don't understand the fact that they thought he'd done something so wrong, they needed to chase him down with a truck. I also don't understand why they needed to bring a gun to this interaction
 

gorfias

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I don't understand the fact that they thought he'd done something so wrong, they needed to chase him down with a truck. I also don't understand why they needed to bring a gun to this interaction
Arbery did show himself willing to resort to violence. How many others in the middle of a crime are the same? Arming oneself can make sense when you think you are stopping a crime from happening.
I have to think if he had put up his hands and asked, "WTF?" the whole matter might have been irksome, but not deadly. Maybe criminal charges would have followed for such matters as assault with a deadly weapon. BUT... Arbery had no legal obligation to do so. They assaulted him, he fought back and had the right to do so.
Their motive was likely that they want to protect their community and are not getting enough help from the authorities. Unfortunate they felt that way and what has to happen from here. But to paraphrase the prosecutor, Arbery's day was a lot worse than theirs.
 

Fallen Soldier

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I don't understand the fact that they thought he'd done something so wrong, they needed to chase him down with a truck. I also don't understand why they needed to bring a gun to this interaction
It was clear as day this was a hate crime. But because the system is so biased against minorities, the prosecution had the burden of proof to show this wasn’t a self defense case. I’m just glad justice is done for once.
 

The Rogue Wolf

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Yeah the defense lawyer, Laura Hogue's, racist dog-whistle comment about Ahmaud Arbery's dirty long toenails probably wasn't the best thing to say, for her client or career.
She deserves to be permanently disbarred. And if it was up to me, everything she owns would be sold with the proceeds going to Arbery's family.
 

Agema

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Arbery did show himself willing to resort to violence.
Literally anyone on the planet who is conscious may resort to violence in an extreme situation when threatened in that way.

He's being chased by some armed rednecks, tries to run away and eventually can't... what do you think happens when someone is in fear of their life and has nowhere to flee or hide? A mouse will likely attack something ten times its size when it's cornered because it still offers a better chance than passively accepting death.

We cannot be allowed to threaten someone in that fashion and claim self defence if they attack. It is beyond reasonability to push people in that way and expect them to react with the coolness, omniscience and calculation of a disinterested observer who has had two years to digest the case from every angle.
 

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Arbery did show himself willing to resort to violence. How many others in the middle of a crime are the same? Arming oneself can make sense when you think you are stopping a crime from happening.
I have to think if he had put up his hands and asked, "WTF?" the whole matter might have been irksome, but not deadly. Maybe criminal charges would have followed for such matters as assault with a deadly weapon. BUT... Arbery had no legal obligation to do so. They assaulted him, he fought back and had the right to do so.
Their motive was likely that they want to protect their community and are not getting enough help from the authorities. Unfortunate they felt that way and what has to happen from here. But to paraphrase the prosecutor, Arbery's day was a lot worse than theirs.
That is what we call making excuses for racists assholes. You must love living in your willfuly ignorant and oblivious world don't you?

Remember that time you claimed you wanted to get away from the hardcore Conservative jack-asses and their twisted ideals? I give you the same response before, "You might as well be them, all but in name, if you continue to carry their awful ideals and memes". They knew what they were doing was wrong and thought they could get away with, because of an innocent man's skin color being non-white. All of them can rot in jail and suffer the deepest, darkest, despair imaginable.
 
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SilentPony

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So did Rittenhouse.
The difference is Rittenhouse proved himself to be very marketable to Republicans. A chubby little momma's boy who thought he looked cool with an AR15.
Whereas the Arbery murderers were all beat-faced lushes proudly displaying a Confederate Flag. Much harder for Fox to get their audience to go "Aww, he's a good kid" at that.
 

Specter Von Baren

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Arbery did show himself willing to resort to violence. How many others in the middle of a crime are the same? Arming oneself can make sense when you think you are stopping a crime from happening.
I have to think if he had put up his hands and asked, "WTF?" the whole matter might have been irksome, but not deadly. Maybe criminal charges would have followed for such matters as assault with a deadly weapon. BUT... Arbery had no legal obligation to do so. They assaulted him, he fought back and had the right to do so.
Their motive was likely that they want to protect their community and are not getting enough help from the authorities. Unfortunate they felt that way and what has to happen from here. But to paraphrase the prosecutor, Arbery's day was a lot worse than theirs.
If I were to guess, I think the reason he tried to grab the gun away from them is because he probably thought that if they gained some kind of firm control on him like putting him in a headlock or something that they'd kill him outright. Being chased down like he was is not normal in any sense of the word and I think he figured they were just going to kill him no matter what he did so he may as well take his chance to grab the gun.
 
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gorfias

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Literally anyone on the planet who is conscious may resort to violence in an extreme situation when threatened in that way.

He's being chased by some armed rednecks, tries to run away and eventually can't... what do you think happens when someone is in fear of their life and has nowhere to flee or hide? A mouse will likely attack something ten times its size when it's cornered because it still offers a better chance than passively accepting death.

We cannot be allowed to threaten someone in that fashion and claim self defence if they attack. It is beyond reasonability to push people in that way and expect them to react with the coolness, omniscience and calculation of a disinterested observer who has had two years to digest the case from every angle.
Agreed. I was asked why someone might think they have a need to arm themselves. More simply, they may, unjustly or unlawfully even, think they are headed into a potentially violent situation.
That is what we call making excuses for racists assholes. You must love living in your willfuly ignorant and oblivious world don't you?

Remember that time you claimed you wanted to get away from the hardcore Conservative jack-asses and their twisted ideals? I give you the same response before, "You might as well be them ,all but in name, if you continue to carry their awful ideals and memes". They knew what they were doing was wrong and thought they could get away with, because of an innocent man's skin color being non-white. All of them can rot in jail and suffer the deepest, darkest, despair imaginable.
And this is what I would call being an unthinking, uncompassionate tribalist. I think I try to keep an open mind and realize good people can do bad and unlawful things. These guys were called upon to protect their community and they tried but in a way that does turn out to be unlawful making them responsible for the death that resulted.
Given what we've been reviewing in the Rittenhouse case, I am still asking: had the Arbery killers thought, however incorrectly, that Arbery was engaged in serious felony conduct, would they have had valid self defense claims? As far as I can tell, that is the difference between these 3 convicted guys and jump kick man and Grosskreutz. That isn't necessarily a good thing (that maybe even if Grosskreuz thought Rittenhouse guilty of a serious crime, if he had killed him and it was proven Rittenhouse, for the sake of argument, had done nothing wrong, does Grosskreutz go free anyway because he though him doing a serious crime?) EDIT: and conversely, if, for the sake of argument, Arbery's killers thought he was engaged in a serious felony, would they be cleared of murder? How about if they didn't think he was involved in a serious felony but it turned out he was? I'd think that would still have landed them with murder convictions.
 
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Dirty Hipsters

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I think the law has been followed. Sad in that I think these guys thought they were doing the right thing. But what would the alternative to finding them guilty be? A quasi right to kill anyone you thought might be doing something wrong?
They basically lynched an unarmed man who was in no way a threat to them. If they thought they were doing the right thing then all the more reason to permanently remove them from society for the safety of all other people.