Funny Events of the "Woke" world

[CriticalGaming]

People can make jokes about whatever they want, but bad jokes are going to garner a negative reaction.

Ok but you first have to define "bad Joke". There are bad jokes that are bad because they aren't funny. There are bad jokes that come from ignorance. Then there are Amy Schumer Jokes.

You said it yourself everything has nuances to it. There is context to everything, including the G.I. Jane joke. That context is that at EVERY Oscars show has a comedian that takes the piss out of the celebrities at the show and the movies or performances of those celebs. Jada was simply one of the people who got targeted this time. If Amy had told that joke, do you think that Will Smith could have gone up there and slapped her? I dont fucking think so. I don't even think it would have worked if Jada got up and slapped Amy either.

There are comedians who've made careers out of roasting people and those jokes get pretty fucking harsh. Jeff Ross is famous for that and they've had shows specially dedicated to roasting people. Shaq, Justin Bieber, Bob Sagat, Pamela Lee, Flav-a-Flav, among others. Hell even back in the 70's they were doing this shit with people like Sammy Davis jr.

So your argument is that if someone is the target of dehumanizing "jokes,"

Who made dehumanizing jokes? It was a joke about G.I. Jane and a hairstyle (chosen or not) really didn't seem demeaning. And according to a lot of discourse that would have been a joke most, if not all, comedians would have made if they were in Chris' possition because even in this landscape nobody would have registered that as a big deal.

Ricky Gervais said this when asked if he would have made a joke about Jada's hair, “What has it got to do with me? People were going, ‘What would have happened if Ricky Gervais had been doing it [presenting an Oscar award)]?’” he continued. “Well, nothing, as I would not have made a joke about his wife’s hair. I would have made a joke about her boyfriend.”

Which would have been a joke worthy of a slap let's be real, but even in giving that joke as a statement was him making the joke.

I mean hell, punching down, is a big topic on making jokes "okay" right? You should try to punch up, so joking about people in power like the president is okay right? Well doesn't that also apply to Hollywood? Chris Rock is certainly punching up when talking about the Smiths I'd argue. Smith being worth over five times as much as Rock, he should be fair game because Smith is Hollywood elite and Rock is not.

And speaking of consequences, Smith is surely facing a lot of consequences for acting out. Because it's almost universal that everyone is calling him the asshole. And top it off with now everyone with a voice is shitting on him and Jada even harder and going to much darker places with it now. So in the end....humor is gonna win regardless.

 

[Silvanus]

I can't help feeling you're watering the term of disability until it loses all relevance. I mean, what else is a disability, dandruff? Excessively hairy ears? After all, you can't be the judge...

Generally if something has a significant negative impact on someone's ability to live their life, its a disability. The stigma and physical pain associated with alopecia can cause that. Not always, but it can.

 

[Buyetyen]

Ok but you first have to define "bad Joke". There are bad jokes that are bad because they aren't funny. There are bad jokes that come from ignorance. Then there are Amy Schumer Jokes.

You said it yourself everything has nuances to it. There is context to everything, including the G.I. Jane joke. That context is that at EVERY Oscars show has a comedian that takes the piss out of the celebrities at the show and the movies or performances of those celebs. Jada was simply one of the people who got targeted this time. If Amy had told that joke, do you think that Will Smith could have gone up there and slapped her? I dont fucking think so. I don't even think it would have worked if Jada got up and slapped Amy either.

There are comedians who've made careers out of roasting people and those jokes get pretty fucking harsh. Jeff Ross is famous for that and they've had shows specially dedicated to roasting people. Shaq, Justin Bieber, Bob Sagat, Pamela Lee, Flav-a-Flav, among others. Hell even back in the 70's they were doing this shit with people like Sammy Davis jr.

Fair enough. There are a lot of ways a joke can be bad. If it's just not funny, people will tell you. If it's offensive, people will still tell you. And nothing I'm saying here is meant to defend either the Smiths or Chris Rock. All parties involved are a bunch of pampered Hollywood millionaires and their personal beefs with each other mean about as much to me as a fart in a mosh pit. I just disagree with using comedy as a blanket excuse.

Who made dehumanizing jokes? It was a joke about G.I. Jane and a hairstyle (chosen or not) really didn't seem demeaning. And according to a lot of discourse that would have been a joke most, if not all, comedians would have made if they were in Chris' possition because even in this landscape nobody would have registered that as a big deal.

Again, I'm speaking in general.

And speaking of consequences, Smith is surely facing a lot of consequences for acting out. Because it's almost universal that everyone is calling him the asshole. And top it off with now everyone with a voice is shitting on him and Jada even harder and going to much darker places with it now. So in the end....humor is gonna win regardless.

I wouldn't call this a win for anybody or anything. Once Will apologized, I was prepared to let the whole thing die because the only ones whom this really effects are already moving on with their lives.

 

[Asita]

This is all a very valid point. However it loses a bit of steam when the turn around is not true. For example many of these "woke" comedians will make a mockery and insult white people, or cis people, as if it is not still racist or bigoted.

Either it's all okay or none of it is okay. The problem is really the selectiveness of it and a lack of understanding of what's good versus bad.

See again what I was saying about this always being a work in progress. I'm not saying that the current state of affairs is perfect, quite the contrary. As I said, it's an iterative process and we're going to keep slowly correcting for whatever we get wrong. That the pendulum can and at times will swing too far in the other direction does not mean that the pendulum was wrong to swing at all, just that the pendulum didn't end up where it needed to.

My question to the class is this, If someone offends you.....what then? What is the consequence of that? You're feelings are a little tender? So?

Offense is meaningless unless the offended party acts upon it. Every bad joke is nothing but a fart in the wind unless the offended party takes action. Case in point. Chris Rock's joke would have been a nothing one-liner in a slew of shitloads of other one-liners and is only remembered because Will Smith made a bad decision. The offended acted out with aggression and violence, the offended became the offender because someone's feelings got hurt. Instead of letting it slide, and forgetting about it, now that offense will always be a bigger memory than it should have been.

And that goes for everyone who takes offense at a joke or comment. You can be upset about it, but keep your reaction contained and everyone will forget about it because words are fleeting.

I find this bit incredibly ironic because a few decades ago, Smith would have been lauded for "defending his wife's honor", a mindset that we can easily trace back centuries - particularly in broader strokes. Have you ever read Dumas' works? As a highlight: at the start of the Three Musketeers (published in 1844, set in the 1620s), d'Artagnan challenges a man to a duel for laughing at his horse (thereby insulting d'Artagnan himself by proxy). Similarly, in the Count of Monte Cristo, Albert challenges the Count to a duel because the Count's ward tarnished the honor of Albert's father (quite rightly, as it turns out, though Albert initially assumes it to be slander as a matter of course until it's definitively proven to him that his father had no honor worth defending).

That was not something Dumas conjured out of the aether. Rather, it was reflective - if somewhat exaggerated by the challenging party's literally murderous intent in both cases - of the state of affairs from the 17th to 19th centuries: fighting to maintain your honor by proving your willingness to fight for and stake your very life on it was treated by the populace as an acceptable means to resolve disputes, even after it was officially outlawed. Andrew Jackson alone fought over 103 duels to defend his wife's honor. And while dueling has since gone out of style, the idea of coming to blows to defend a lady's honor never truly vanished. Eg:

Why don't men fight other men to defend their girlfriends and wives' honor anymore?

Answer (1 of 37): In addition to what @Christian Winter and others said; I find the very concept of honor needing “defending” - especially as implied in a manly way, presumably with fists - utterly baffling. There’s 3 things here: 1. Honor is something you have or you don’t. It’s not something ...

www.quora.com

Bloom should be cheered for defending a woman’s honor

Orlando Bloom will hold a special place in the hearts of many women after this week. The “Lord of the Rings” star made headlines for clocking rocker brat Justin Bieber at a club in Ibiza, Spain, wh…

nypost.com

Point being that it's downright bizarre to me that Smith's reaction is being spun as modern oversensitivity when it's closer to a relapse of an ideology we've been moving away from.

 

[CriticalGaming]

Point being that it's downright bizarre to me that Smith's reaction is being spun as modern oversensitivity when it's closer to a relapse of an ideology we've been moving away from.

I never saw it as this because of reasons mentioned in the thread already. I think Will was already on something of an edge with his wifes rather infamous cheating habits, so for a joke to go against her (as minor of a joke as it was, lets be clear on that), i think he was pushed by outside influences to do what he did. Either way all that has been explained already in the thread so no need to develop that further.

The Dumas stuff is interesting, but at the same time it also harkins back to eras in which things were property of the man. Defending one's woman was expected because you owned her and any comment about her was effectively a comment about you. Things evolve and I'll agree that there will always be a pendulum swing, and it's probably due to social media that the pendulum swings so fucking far all the time.

What will be interesting to be, is at what point will it take for the pendulum to swing too far this time around? There is starting to be a bit of push back in some areas, the "don't say gay" bill in florida and the outrage of Lia Thomas's whole swimming thing. But these are fairly stand out events. What I'm still waiting to see is if we'll get a push back on what it okay to joke about.

Whether it be Chapelle and his jokes, or something like this Chris Rock thing which was fairly obvious that it had no malicious intent to it. Because we obviously have to factor intent into a joke. Most people will forgive a comedian who harshly bashes a heckler right, but people generally wont sit and listen to a comedian saying stupid shit as part of the act. I think it's pretty easy generally to tell when a comedian is throwing punches for hateful reasons versus just bullshiting around. And I do think the public discourse is bound to swing back on this soon.

 

[Phoenixmgs]

Rufo's the guy who's knowingly lying about the CRT stuff, right? Shockingly, he's blatantly lying about the content of the minute long video he posted.

We are y'all such easy marks?

Don't even know who the guy is, just wanted to post the video really. Both sides are lying about CRT, I'm guessing he's peddling the conservative lies?

And?

They've been pushing the straight one since the 40's.

If now they are pushing both gay and straight I'd see that as some harmony finally achieved. It's not true ofcourse, because Disney is not pushing the gay agenda, they're at best throwing out some gay table scraps. Which in the eyes of conservatives is still WAY too much obviously. Disney will be where actual gay exposure is right now in 10 years at the earliest, as Disney is always at least 10 years behind with social issues so as not to scare the (American) Christian conservatives.

I'm just saying no agenda should be pushed beside the actual creators.

Okay, let's say you have a tiny dick. I'm not saying you have, I've no way of knowing, but lets say for the sake of this argument and all future arguments, you have an unusually small dick. And that's fine, it makes no difference to anyone else beyond the societal expectation that you will not have a tiny dick and that doing so compromises your masculinity. So anyway, you go to a comedy club with your friends (which, in this example, you have), to see a local Louis C.K. tribute act, but they announce there's a special guest. It's Amy Schumer! She's doing warm up for a gig, testing new material before trying it on a bigger crowd (the most unrealistic thing in this example IMO).

Anyway, she's doing a bit about how guys with tiny dicks are terrible in bed again. And all your friends are laughing, but they aren't laughing at the concept of some theoretical guy who's a bit crap with the ladies, they're laughing at you. Some of them are literally pointing at you and giggling. Brad (known as The Big B) has lost the ability to laugh, he's wheezing so hard. Because it's funny. And it's funny because it's created a pecking (pecker?) order, and you're at the bottom. That's the joke. And there's nothing you're going to be able to do about it, and why should you anyway? It's not like it's a disability, it's just an extremely mockable physical characteristic that you can't change and reflects negatively on your masculinity.

Anyway, Schumer moves on to another joke, and this time it's about guys who don't even lift. Oh, fucking hell, everyone's laughing at you again!

And? Is this supposed to be a hypothetical situation where you're arguing it would be OK to hit Brad? Because it wouldn't.

"People who have medical conditions should just stay inside. Otherwise they're fair game for taking the piss".

Not at all what I said. Most everyone has some physical aspect of them they don't like and it's on you to be comfortable enough with it to be able to take the occasional looks and comments. You're acting like Rock was roasting Jada for hours or something. He told one GI Jane joke and he might not of known about the hair loss. Does Charles Barkley get upset about the following tweet that makes fun of his career and weight?

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

Don't even know who the guy is, just wanted to post the video really. Both sides are lying about CRT, I'm guessing he's peddling the conservative lies?

Literally maliciously muddling the term and turning it into just another phrase for "thing we don't like".

 

[Casual Shinji]

I'm just saying no agenda should be pushed beside the actual creators.

You're assuming then that creators don't want to push a gay agenda. Well, guess what, they do. In fact, it has recently come to light that creators over at Pixar have wanted to add gayness to their movies, but were stopped by Disney.

Disney has always stifled creativity in this way. Like with the whole 'Disney princess face' crap, where the Disney princesses were never allowed to make faces that would make them look less than perfectly pretty. It was an infamous frustration among animators.

 

[Agema]

I never saw it as this because of reasons mentioned in the thread already. I think Will was already on something of an edge with his wifes rather infamous cheating habits,

They are well known to have an open marriage. It's not cheating if it's been agreed to.

 

[CriticalGaming]

They are well known to have an open marriage. It's not cheating if it's been agreed to.

And it's not possible that he agreed to it just to keep her around?

Doesn't really matter, speculation is all we have because none of us know them personally.

 

[Trunkage]

And it's not possible that he agreed to it just to keep her around?

Doesn't really matter, speculation is all we have because none of us know them personally.

Dude. He's a grown ass adult. If he cant handle it, and most people cant, find something else.

 

[CriticalGaming]

Dude. He's a grown ass adult. If he cant handle it, and most people cant, find something else.

Sure but public image and whatnot, celebrities are fucking weird. Not to mention how much he'd have to give her in a divorce.

 

[Silvanus]

Pop culture is broken if a man smacks another man and everybody starts searching for what a woman could have done to cause it.

 

[The Rogue Wolf]

Pop culture is broken if a man smacks another man and everybody starts searching for what a woman could have done to cause it.

Oh, this kind of thing has been going on since the ancient Greeks.

 

[Phoenixmgs]

View attachment 5828
Literally maliciously muddling the term and turning it into just another phrase for "thing we don't like".

I said I posted the tweet only for the video. I don't really care who he is and what's he's said.

Also, what's so different between him and say John Oliver, who had an episode about CRT that was filled with lies and misinformation?

You're assuming then that creators don't want to push a gay agenda. Well, guess what, they do. In fact, it has recently come to light that creators over at Pixar have wanted to add gayness to their movies, but were stopped by Disney.

Disney has always stifled creativity in this way. Like with the whole 'Disney princess face' crap, where the Disney princesses were never allowed to make faces that would make them look less than perfectly pretty. It was an infamous frustration among animators.

It's wrong either way you do it.

Pop culture is broken if a man smacks another man and everybody starts searching for what a woman could have done to cause it.

Outside of a very small minority, who the fuck is saying it's Jada's fault? Most everyone has said Will Smith hit Chris Rock and that's bad because you don't hit people, plain and simple. There's a small minority saying a bunch of stupid shit like white people shouldn't be able to talk about it or Chris Rock's joke is more harmful than physical violence, but that's a small minority.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

I said I posted the tweet only for the video. I don't really care who he is and what's he's said.

Also, what's so different between him and say John Oliver, who had an episode about CRT that was filled with lies and misinformation?

Well, *if* John Oliver lies, it's not immediately refuted by the clips he shows, for starters

 

[Trunkage]

It's wrong either way you do it.

Do you realise what your asking for here?

Just imagine what would happen at school if there were no 'agenda?' Can you tell me what that would look like?

 

[Casual Shinji]

It's wrong either way you do it.

No, it's not. Both are valid, but neither should be exclussively presented as the norm, which is what has been happening with the heterosexual agenda (in fiction) for decades. Only when the LGBTQ was starting to get a tiny bit of exposure, beyond punchlines, vilification, and victimization, did we hear cries of agendas being pushed, as it was seen as pushing something that isn't normal and shouldn't be. It was seen as the gays not staying in their place.

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

But don't you see? If one rando has no problem with something, then no one is allowed to have a problem with it. Having feelings makes you sensitive, and that's the absolute worst thing you can be to randos.

1) Celebrity so yeh they will be scrutinised heavily and that's the price they pay for the Millions they make.
2) Jokes actually help destigmatise talk of a number of sensitive issues.

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

View attachment 5828
Literally maliciously muddling the term and turning it into just another phrase for "thing we don't like".

Oh you mean like:
Sex
Gender
Misogyny
Sexist
Objectification
Nazi
Terrorist
racist
Bigot
Inersectionality
Feminism
Triggered
Dangerous
Death threat
Harassment
abuse
Sea Lioning
Bad Faith engagement
Diverse (yes really see Black Pather being called a diverse movie for having what was it 90% of the cast being POCs)

I'm sure many other terms too.