Pay 2 Win Acceptance

[CriticalGaming]

So with Diablo Immortal releasing in such a shameful state, as well as any number of other mobile games, and sports games like Madden and NBA2k, etc etc. Pay 2 Win has grown and grown despite still being universally despised for the most part at least in theory. It has really made me think about the old days and how drastically things have shifted.

Back in the early 2010's I remember people losing their shit over horse armor DLC in Skyrim. So much so that they removed it from the game (at least for a while). People used to fight back heavily against shady DLC and microtransaction practices. From terrible things like on-disc DLC characters in Capcom games, to day 1 DLC's, we fought against all of it. So why is it so rampant now?

The answer I came up with made me sad.

Simple answer is because we got old. That's it. They didn't have to win us over, all they had to do was continue putting their dogshit into game until the next generation of kids didn't know a world that wasn't driven by microtransactions. As us "real gamers" grew up, we got jobs, we lost the free time that let us play lots of video games. And meanwhile our fucking kids became obsessed with Shark Cards and V-bucks.

What's worse is that when we were young we fought against microtransactions and crazy dlc because we were in school and poor. We didn't like it because we had very little money to spend on it. Which leads to another problem.

We've grown up, got real jobs, got families, got money. Now we have money and we dont' have time.....guess what isn't looking so bad now. Pay to Win, pay to progress, pay to skip. We have money but we don't have the time so we'll pay to skip the grind and just do the fun shit because that's where our limited time will be more enjoyable. So what if it costs an extra 60 bucks on top of the 70 we paid at launch, it's more fun faster.

Everyone has to make their own choices, and the groups choices will dictate the outcome. And us "old guard"....we lost. It sucks but it is what it is.

 

[BrawlMan]

You lost by giving up. I know there are kids and teens and young adults out there that don't know better, or think they know everything, but that's why we got to teach and guide them the best we can. I still give out advice that is useful and helpful. I've actually helped plenty of parents save money or not having their kid buy stuff on crap they don't need. I can't get every single person, but I'm not going to give up, cry in a corner, and wangst on about it. If they don't want to listen, then they'll have to learn the hard way. I've met plenty of those too. I met a teen to soon be adult, that got burnt hard by Anthem and AAA hype machine. That included some of his friends too. I showed him what are true games. I imparted this wisdom on him and he will pass it on to others. That's all you can do. Now enough of the depressing, bull crap, melodrama and man up. Do what you can or don't. I won't judge you for it.

 

[The Rogue Wolf]

It wasn't just acquiescence that brought us here; it was obsequiousness, legions of fanboys fawning at the feet of their preferred corporations, screaming at the rest of us "but making video games is expensive, guys!" even after EA was forced by law to admit to its shareholders that removing microtransactions from Battlefront II wouldn't hurt its bottom line.

As for myself, I'm not interested in paying money to not have to play a game. I'll just not play the game.

 

[CriticalGaming]

It wasn't just acquiescence that brought us here; it was obsequiousness, legions of fanboys fawning at the feet of their preferred corporations, screaming at the rest of us "but making video games is expensive, guys!" even after EA was forced by law to admit to its shareholders that removing microtransactions from Battlefront II wouldn't hurt its bottom line.

As for myself, I'm not interested in paying money to not have to play a game. I'll just not play the game.

Yeah there was a lot of that early on. Where the DLC was shit in other games but when it happened to your favorite series it was "ok" somehow. WoW was a big part of this when they starting selling mounts on the store back in the Wrath of the Lich King days.

 

[wings012]

I haven't tried Diablo Immortal, but this sort of nonsense isn't even new. This sort of crap has been around for ages, but most older gamers just don't play that many mobile games and were blind to it. But y'know this one has the Diablo name on it so....

The younger hires at my company are happy to just dump heaps of money into mobile games. I even met one that rolled for a character in a game she barely played just because she liked the artist that illustrated it. And not rolling with earnable premium currency, but actually shelling out for it. A behaviour I find highly perplexing.

 

[Worgen]

I won't lie, there is something that would be satisfying about buying a powerful item and using it to destroy one of those 'git gud' jackasses. But, its still such a bullshit thing that would just destroy pvp and make pve less fun.

 

[Gordon_4]

Yeah there was a lot of that early on. Where the DLC was shit in other games but when it happened to your favorite series it was "ok" somehow. WoW was a big part of this when they starting selling mounts on the store back in the Wrath of the Lich King days.

You know the irony of the mount was that apart from not being a micro transaction - damn thing cost $27 - it actually sort of paid for itself because while mount training was relatively cheap against WoW’s economy of the day, mounts themselves weren’t. But that goofy sparkle horse showed up reliably in the mailbox of every toon on either faction you made until they did account wide mounts. So it was actually really useful for those of us who were on limited in game funds.

Plus, store mounts aren’t pay to win. They’re pay to brag and very few people actually care. Every asshole has the sparkle pony. The truly dedicated have Invincible.

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

I'm pretty sure mobile games have always been pay to win. That hasn't changed.

 

[Phoenixmgs]

I still haven't come across a game that was pay2win and actually good.

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

So with Diablo Immortal releasing in such a shameful state, as well as any number of other mobile games, and sports games like Madden and NBA2k, etc etc. Pay 2 Win has grown and grown despite still being universally despised for the most part at least in theory. It has really made me think about the old days and how drastically things have shifted.

Back in the early 2010's I remember people losing their shit over horse armor DLC in Skyrim. So much so that they removed it from the game (at least for a while). People used to fight back heavily against shady DLC and microtransaction practices. From terrible things like on-disc DLC characters in Capcom games, to day 1 DLC's, we fought against all of it. So why is it so rampant now?

The answer I came up with made me sad.

Simple answer is because we got old. That's it. They didn't have to win us over, all they had to do was continue putting their dogshit into game until the next generation of kids didn't know a world that wasn't driven by microtransactions. As us "real gamers" grew up, we got jobs, we lost the free time that let us play lots of video games. And meanwhile our fucking kids became obsessed with Shark Cards and V-bucks.

What's worse is that when we were young we fought against microtransactions and crazy dlc because we were in school and poor. We didn't like it because we had very little money to spend on it. Which leads to another problem.

We've grown up, got real jobs, got families, got money. Now we have money and we dont' have time.....guess what isn't looking so bad now. Pay to Win, pay to progress, pay to skip. We have money but we don't have the time so we'll pay to skip the grind and just do the fun shit because that's where our limited time will be more enjoyable. So what if it costs an extra 60 bucks on top of the 70 we paid at launch, it's more fun faster.

Everyone has to make their own choices, and the groups choices will dictate the outcome. And us "old guard"....we lost. It sucks but it is what it is.

Online multiplayer competitive gaming and the ease with which it spurs peer pressure can also share the blame. Parents that increasingly don’t really give a shit what their kids are doing for one reason or another, as long as they’re preoccupied for a while every day while parents are preoccupied with adult shit.

FFS if I knew it would actually solve anything I’d say this shit needs an intervention.

 

[Samtemdo8]

The answer I came up with made me sad.

Simple answer is because we got old.

I've accepted this answer a LONG time ago.

And how voices like Jim Sterling protesting and criticizing this has fallen on deaf ears because the industry continues pushing it and pushing it.

I've said it before and I've said it again, the internet has ruined gaming, as in gaming has become far too dependent on internet usage, even Nintendo, once thought of Online Gaming as just a trend, now makes games with DLCs like Smash Brothers.

I mean for fuck's sake, I have an Xbox Series X, just now I bought Resident Evil 8 on physical disc. I put it into the Xbox to play it, but turns out I need an internet connection to even install at all, the game is not running off the disc. So fuck anyone in the world that doesn't have an internet because they won't be able to install anything on the Xbox without internet, if that isn't obstructive DRM I don't know what is.

 

[BrawlMan]

And how voices like Jim Sterling protesting and criticizing this has fallen on deaf ears because the industry continues pushing it and pushing it.

And I am glad Sterling and many others keep on fighting the for a good reason. If you wanna quit, then say it. Don't give some nihilistic, fatalistic lecture trying to come off as depressingly profound.

I've said it before and I've said it again, the internet has ruined gaming,

No, it's the assholes in charge or that were let up stairs that is the problem. And those who love to suck the genitals of assholes, making excuses on scummy practices.

as in gaming has become far too dependent on internet usage, even Nintendo, once thought of Online Gaming as just a trend, now makes games with DLCs like Smash Brothers.

They're online sucks and will never pay for it. Free for 2.5 years on Switch, and then they start charging actual $ for crappy online. Not worth lazy, greedy fuckheads.

I mean for fuck's sake, I have an Xbox Series X, just now I bought Resident Evil 8 on physical disc. I put it into the Xbox to play it, but turns out I need an internet connection to even install at all, the game is not running off the disc. So fuck anyone in the world that doesn't have an internet because they won't be able to install anything on the Xbox without internet, if that isn't obstructive DRM I don't know what is.

Sucks. Game Pass is also glorified DRM too. Never paying for it. It's why I prefer smaller games any way. Most run off the disc on PS4/PS5 or cartridge in the Switch's case. At most, it's usually a minor update. A minor problem, but if you don't want the update you don't have to do it.

 

[Samtemdo8]

They're online sucks and will never pay for it. Free for 2.5 years on Switch, and then they start charging actual $ for crappy online. Not worth lazy, greedy fuckheads.

You can thank Microsoft for giving Sony and Nintendo the idea of Online subscription service.

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

I remember playing the Battlestar Galactica MMO for bout a week. I gave up because I felt I was getting no-where (I'd literally only got the credits to upgrade my Viper and not access to any better ships) then the Cylon faction players started wiping the Human faction on the server and no-one could figure out what was going on. Turns out some dude had moved over servers complete with the high end Cylon battleship he'd brought and kitted out at a cost of $2,500. Dude was wiping the floor with everyone because he's warp in wipe everyone out and warp out to another location. It took like 2 hours but we managed to get enough people together to co-ordinate and try to track him and catch him. Turns out he didn't expect 19 people in Vipers all with nukes loaded onto them backed up by most of the rest of the server's Human faction heavy ships. Dude went from bragging about being untouchable to yelling how it was all unfair because we all targeted him with nukes. He moved to a different server again after to that to continue using his paid for ship.

 

[Gordon_4]

I remember playing the Battlestar Galactica MMO for bout a week. I gave up because I felt I was getting no-where (I'd literally only got the credits to upgrade my Viper and not access to any better ships) then the Cylon faction players started wiping the Human faction on the server and no-one could figure out what was going on. Turns out some dude had moved over servers complete with the high end Cylon battleship he'd brought and kitted out at a cost of $2,500. Dude was wiping the floor with everyone because he's warp in wipe everyone out and warp out to another location. It took like 2 hours but we managed to get enough people together to co-ordinate and try to track him and catch him. Turns out he didn't expect 19 people in Vipers all with nukes loaded onto them backed up by most of the rest of the server's Human faction heavy ships. Dude went from bragging about being untouchable to yelling how it was all unfair because we all targeted him with nukes. He moved to a different server again after to that to continue using his paid for ship.

The irony of that is that it actually sounds fairly true to the Battlestar Galactica canon. Not saying it was a fun experience, but the Cylons warping in, butt-fucking the humans and then legging it sounds like a lot of early season episodes.

 

[immortalfrieza]

And I am glad Sterling and many others keep on fighting the for a good reason. If you wanna quit, then say it. Don't give some nihilistic, fatalistic lecture trying to come off as depressingly profound.

It's not being nihilistic, fatalistic, or trying to come off depressingly profound, it's called being realistic. The fact is, gamers who actually give a crap about video games are a microscopic minority and thus stopped being the primary audience a LONG time ago. Video games or otherwise, if you're not in the primary audience nobody cares what you think in an industry, and even then it's only if you're going along with a good percentage of the people in it.

The reality of the situation is that the video game industry does what it does and gets away with it because legions of gamers who don't know or don't care how blatantly they're being screwed over will support it. This is the end result of video games going from a shameful thing "nobody except losers living in their parents basement does" so says the stereotype to the mainstream thing that nearly everybody on the planet is doing to some capacity.

If you want to fight to stop a tsunami with a cup of water go ahead. Don't give some hopelessly optimistic contrarian lecture trying to come off as some noble crusader. You're not, you're just unwilling to accept what's right in front of your eyes.

 

[The Rogue Wolf]

If you want to fight to stop a tsunami with a cup of water go ahead. Don't give some hopelessly optimistic contrarian lecture trying to come off as some noble crusader. You're not, you're just unwilling to accept what's right in front of your eyes.

Or maybe you're just trying to get everyone else to give up the way you have, so you can feel validated in your surrender. I'll pass, thanks.

 

[BrawlMan]

It's not being nihilistic, fatalistic, or trying to come off depressingly profound, it's called being realistic. The fact is, gamers who actually give a crap about video games are a microscopic minority and thus stopped being the primary audience a LONG time ago. Video games or otherwise, if you're not in the primary audience nobody cares what you think in an industry, and even then it's only if you're going along with a good percentage of the people in it.

The reality of the situation is that the video game industry does what it does and gets away with it because legions of gamers who don't know or don't care how blatantly they're being screwed over will support it. This is the end result of video games going from a shameful thing "nobody except losers living in their parents basement does" so says the stereotype to the mainstream thing that nearly everybody on the planet is doing to some capacity.

If you want to fight to stop a tsunami with a cup of water go ahead. Don't give some hopelessly optimistic contrarian lecture trying to come off as some noble crusader. You're not, you're just unwilling to accept what's right in front of your eyes.

Yeah I saw parts of your rambling, and I really don't care. I'm not trying to come off as dismissive, but I just really don't care. If you want to give up, then give up.

 

[immortalfrieza]

Or maybe you're just trying to get everyone else to give up the way you have, so you can feel validated in your surrender. I'll pass, thanks.

"Giving up" implies that there's anything to actually be done. "Surrender" implies there was ever a battle that could've been won. There are situations where it doesn't matter whether you fight or you don't, it comes to the exact same end. Microtransactions, DLC, Pay 2 Win, so many other scummy business practices, all these things exist. If there was ever anything people like us could actually do about them they would've died out not long after the industry tried to implement them. Instead, they've become common practice throughout the industry and the most anyone who actually cares that it's happening really does is complain about them on forums like this.

If people honestly believe that these business practices can be curtailed how about actually doing something then?

 

[immortalfrieza]

Yeah I saw parts of your rambling, and I really don't care. I'm not trying to come off as dismissive, but I just really don't care. If you want to give up, then give up.

Go ahead then. Prove me wrong. Go out there and do something to stamp out these horrible business practices. Something that actually works I'll add. I'll wait.