Supreme Court overturns Roe v. Wade; states can ban abortion

Trunkage

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First off Roe v. Wade was a court ruling in favor of allowing women access to abortions, however it was never actually written into law.
Most things in the US aren't laws. They generally rule by executive order or Supreme Court rulings and most laws that are created get overridden by one of these two.

Eg. remember that Muslim ban Trump had at the start of the pandemic? Not a law

Apparently this is the best system in the world somehow
 

The Rogue Wolf

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Either you have the right to your own body or you don't. Conservatives think you don't (but they have a right to theirs, naturally)
They also think that they have a right to your body- specifically, to force you to adhere to their own chosen system of values (primarily a hypermacho, misogynist, faux-Christian, strictly binary system).
Killing people is not a right. Done.
Tell Texas this. They celebrate putting people to death.
 

TheMysteriousGX

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Killing people is not a right. Done.
Supreme Court ruled that finding new evidence of innocence does not by itself justify a death row appeal. Bite me
Even if we imagine it feasible to go "this was a question between state and federal jurisdiction, but we're going to rule that those laws don't apply in the first place", I want you to appreciate what you are suggesting: neither US nor state laws would apply to anyone in the entire eastern half of Oklahoma, including most of the city of Tulsa.
Both Federal and Tribal law exists on tribal land. They didn't suddenly go Mad Max. Why the *fuck* do you think you know better?

Did you know that state and nation are synonyms?
Not in this case, pedant.
 

Agema

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Did you know that state and nation are synonyms?
Well, no, they aren't.

State has at least two meanings (relevant here), representing both an independent state, or a province of a wider independent state. Nation likewise has two relevant meanings, one of which is basically synonymous with the first meaning of state above, the second to represent a people of shared ethnicity. Hence for instance why the term "nation state" is not a pointless tautology.

It is absolutely plain the the terms nation and state are not synonymous as used above.
 

Trunkage

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The grass is always greener on the other side.
Just so we are clear. There is no law banning slavery in the US

It was done by Executive Order.

You're reasoning allows for slavery to start again in the US

Just to be clear. The Justice have cited in this ruling with their arguments that privacy isnt a thing... for women. Because the ERA wasn't passed, any EO or court ruling on making women have the same rights as men is now null and void. So, if you're a man, you don't have to worry too much. Now we have to pretend that the ERA should be pushed through when that should be the NATURAL result of any law if you looked at the constitution. (The Supreme Court cares very little about the constitution). There should never be a NEED to write an ERA, as it written into the constitution, but here we are

Stop pretending it wasn't 'well-reasoned'. It's got nothing to do with well-reasoned. That's what you call a talking point to remove Roe.... i.e. not well reasoned
 

tstorm823

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Federal law normally applies on reservations, state law normally does not. The whole point of the case was whether or not someone doing a state crime on the reservation who is not part of the reservation falls under state law, and I'd argue they belong under tribal law instead - if you are on the reservation the law on the reservation applies regardless of who you are and reservations are not normally subject to state law (this is literally why Indian casinos are a thing at all) but are subject to federal law.
You can argue that they should belong under tribal law, but that is not the case. The status quo before this ruling is that neither the state not tribes have jurisdiction to prosecute crimes committed by non-natives on Indian land, and are effectively required to ask the federal government to prosecute. Having tribal law apply regardless of who you are was not on the table.
 

tstorm823

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Supreme Court ruled that finding new evidence of innocence does not by itself justify a death row appeal. Bite me
That's not a terribly accurate summary, and also isn't an answer to what I said.
Both Federal and Tribal law exists on tribal land. They didn't suddenly go Mad Max. Why the *fuck* do you think you know better?
Not if you're not part of the tribe.
I think I know better than you because you say lots of wrong things.
Not in this case, pedant.
Close enough to demonstrate that the statement I was responding to is dumb. The idea that the US states need to be more uniform than nations elsewhere is baseless and stupid and overall ignorant of the intended design of the United States of America.
 

TheMysteriousGX

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Not if you're not part of the tribe.
I think I know better than you because you say lots of wrong things.
And you think the tribe doesn't like this because...?
Close enough to demonstrate that the statement I was responding to is dumb. The idea that the US states need to be more uniform than nations elsewhere is baseless and stupid and overall ignorant of the intended design of the United States of America.
Nah. You tried a stupid pedant trick. You're fooling nobody if you think people will believe that you think certain states should be allowed to have "murder" be legal. You'd federalize a ban in a heartbeat.
 

The Rogue Wolf

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Land of the free, home of the pregnancy check points

The source is apparently a comedian, so this might be satire. (The problem is just how plausible it is.)

Even less of a laughing matter:


Yeah, let's force a twelve-year-old rape victim to carry a baby to term, even though giving birth could risk her life. That's what she gets for having a uterus!
 
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tstorm823

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And you think the tribe doesn't like this because...?
Nah. You tried a stupid pedant trick. You're fooling nobody if you think people will believe that you think certain states should be allowed to have "murder" be legal. You'd federalize a ban in a heartbeat.
I mean, there will inevitably come a time when abortion is as illegal as infanticide the world over. That's going to happen, it'll just likely happen in pieces, rather than by a single sweeping order.
 

Cheetodust

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I mean, there will inevitably come a time when abortion is as illegal as infanticide the world over. That's going to happen, it'll just likely happen in pieces, rather than by a single sweeping order.
So you look forward to the day when children and SA victims are forced to give birth? I suppose you can do what Catholics do best,just as long as there's a septic tank close to hand.
 

Agema

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Close enough to demonstrate that the statement I was responding to is dumb. The idea that the US states need to be more uniform than nations elsewhere is baseless and stupid and overall ignorant of the intended design of the United States of America.
Yes and no. When a nation's components parts become sufficiently different, it will cease to be a single nation.

The USA really is not the EU. The EU can tolerate significantly bigger differences between different component states than the USA, precisely because the EU is a coalition of independent, sovereign states where the USA is a state with numerous semi-autonomous provinces.
 

crimson5pheonix

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So you look forward to the day when children and SA victims are forced to give birth? I suppose you can do what Catholics do best,just as long as there's a septic tank close to hand.
>forward


The future is now old man.
 

Hawki

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Yes and no. When a nation's components parts become sufficiently different, it will cease to be a single nation.

The USA really is not the EU. The EU can tolerate significantly bigger differences between different component states than the USA, precisely because the EU is a coalition of independent, sovereign states where the USA is a state with numerous semi-autonomous provinces.
I'm honestly starting to wonder if it would be better if the US became less centralized at this point. Give each state more independence, let stuff get done, etc.

There was an article in The Atlantic (I think) that basically made the case. That the country's so hopelessly polarized, that it might be better to treat it as something like a confederation of independent states/countries. All of them can broadly agree on key issues (e.g. shared defence), then let the rest of them carry out their affairs.
 
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Bedinsis

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I mean, there will inevitably come a time
No matter how you end that sentence odds are good that you'll end up being wrong, in particular when talking about sociology.
 
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Casual Shinji

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So you look forward to the day when children and SA victims are forced to give birth? I suppose you can do what Catholics do best,just as long as there's a septic tank close to hand.
He's also looking forward to global economic stagnation, an increase in child abuse, increases in suicide, poverty etc. But it's all worth it if zealots can feel vindicated in their beliefs.
 
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