Can I talk about this modern trend in "diversity casting in TV shows?"

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Bedinsis

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BrawlMan is right; you should give it a shot. I don't like [modern] musicals, I'm not a huge theater fan, and I don't particularly care for a lot of rap, so on the surface, Hamilton checked all the boxes for something I would hate. My girlfriend forced me to watch it and... I enjoyed the HELL out of Hamilton. It really surprised me. I had to admit, I understood the hype surrounding it after I watched it. Like BrawlMan said, it won't change your life, but I'm willing to bet it's nothing like you're imagining it to be. Recommended.
Someone (I think I read it on TvTropes) once sold it as a "feature length episode of Epic Rap Battles of history". Is that fair?
 
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Xprimentyl

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Someone (I think I read it on TvTropes) once sold it as a "feature length episode of Epic Rap Battles of history". Is that fair?
I wouldn't go that far; it's a bit more nuanced than that. It's theater; the "rapping" focuses more on being poetic than lyrically clever, though it IS the latter quite often. They're telling a story throughout the whole thing, so the "rapping" never stops; it's not like a typical musical where a story is told with normal dialogue interrupted by sung set-pieces. I'd more equate it to a couple of hours of spoken-word poetry than something like Epic Rap Battles.
 

Dwarvenhobble

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Ah yes, the solid argument of "weaponisation is v bad 😔 guys come on" followed immediately by "lolololol fucking leftists are the worst, dw it's fine when I do it".
Do better.
Because having to make up shit like this is just getting pathetic and the fact you won't link to examples of me supposedly doing this just shows how you are flailing around hoping to throw a smear people will believe.

Kindly stop doing what I believe is called wilderbeating and try and make an argument or is you plan just to throw shit and then run crying if I dare respond it kind?
 

Silvanus

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Do better.
Because having to make up shit like this is just getting pathetic and the fact you won't link to examples of me supposedly doing this just shows how you are flailing around hoping to throw a smear people will believe.
I should have to link you to it when it's like... one page back? Is your memory or attention span that poor?
 
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Dwarvenhobble

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I should have to link you to it when it's like... one page back? Is your memory or attention span that poor?
and now you're going with claiming something happened and hoping people won't check to see what actually happened and how you're twisting events to try and create you little narrative.

Predictable and rather boringly repetitive at this point. You really don't have anything better than various flavours of ad hominem do you?
 

Terminal Blue

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First, the books aren't "100% white." I have no idea what the percentage is, and since identity politics suck I have no desire to, but you have two entire continents' worth of non-white people, plus Dorne in Westeros, so if you're obsessed with skin colour, good news for you.
So, by two continents I assume you mean the Summer Isles and Sothoryos, right?

So the continent inhabited by exotic, mysterious people who love sex and have spent most of their history being raided and abducted as slaves and which the books never visit or spend any time on, and the continent inhabited by feral semi-human ape-men of subhuman intelligence who worship dark gods and carry diseases who are mentioned about twice across the entire series?

Because if you mean Essos, then the vast majority of named or notable Essoi people we encounter in the books and the show alike are clearly coded as (or very literally) white. The two exceptions are the Ghiscari, often described as having olive skin and frizzy hair, who are a decadent slave society clearly coded as semitic, and the dothraki, who are a stand in for steppe people but are an ambiguous fantasy ethnicity who are distinctly foreign coded even if they aren't often given explicit racial characteristics. Even then, both of these ethnic groups were frequently played by white people in the show.

Like, these are fantasy ethic groups. Ghiscari are often described as having red hair despite that being an uncommon feature in the actual semitic people they're coded as. The inhabitants of Qarth are literally white (as in almost albino) despite living in a desert. The point is how the information we are given about them positions them in relation to our real world racial taxonomy.

Which brings us to Dorne.

Why would you imagine that Dornish people wouldn't be "white?" They're not black, are they? They're not coded as particularly semitic. They're certainly not south or East Asian..

Oberyn Martell was played by Pedro Pascal. Pascal is Chilean-American. Now, we can talk about the complexity of race in Latin America, but at the end of the day Pascal is clearly of predominantly European ancestry. You could drop him on a street in Spain and he wouldn't remotely stand out. White people don't all look the same as each other.
 

CM156

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The two exceptions are the Ghiscari, often described as having olive skin and frizzy hair, who are a decadent slave society clearly coded as semitic
I thought they were coded as Persian. This isn't a joke, by the way. I legit thought that was what they were going for. Kind of ancient Persian empire vibes.
 

Silvanus

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and now you're going with claiming something happened
🥱

Here's Dwarvenhobble decrying how people weaponise incidents to attack their opponents;

Also I'd rather people no assume given the age we live in and wait to see what comes out of investigation rather than jump to try and weaponise it against people
And here's Dwarvenhobble weaponising an incident to attack his opponents;

Oh sure but when a republican says similar it's weird tin foil had conspiracy theorist talk..........
Cough
JussIe Smollett
Cough
 
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Dwarvenhobble

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🥱

Here's Dwarvenhobble decrying how people weaponise incidents to attack their opponents;



And here's Dwarvenhobble weaponising an incident to attack his opponents;
I'm sorry I said I'd rather people wait until something is investigated before jumping to conclusions.

I then cited something that had been investigated and people had jumped to conclusions over to attack people and were very wrong about.

I don't know how you're failing to see logical consistency in that.

I mean then again I don't tend to approach everything certain people post looking for the least charitable most bad faith interpretation of what's been said by the person and if they object to the interpretation pull the normal sophistry to try and claim they secretly actually meant something entirely different to what was said.
 

Trunkage

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I'm sorry I said I'd rather people wait until something is investigated before jumping to conclusions.

I then cited something that had been investigated and people had jumped to conclusions over to attack people and were very wrong about.

I don't know how you're failing to see logical consistency in that.

I mean then again I don't tend to approach everything certain people post looking for the least charitable most bad faith interpretation of what's been said by the person and if they object to the interpretation pull the normal sophistry to try and claim they secretly actually meant something entirely different to what was said.
See, this is what you call 'not listening to an argument and owning yourself'

You stated that jumping to judgements is bad. This is correct

What people are asking is for you to follow this concept. YOU jumping to judgements is bad. When you bring up your list, you didnt add the 2020 election, Brexit, 10 year old rape victim getting an abortion, Jan 6, Partygate, all of the CRT and transgender stuff currently going on (including you thinking somone can pretend to be transgender to rape people in bathrooms), Chris Pincher

I picked all these because A) they happened in the last month or still on going now from when they started B) some of the lies in judgements here have started before Smullet C) Most of these involves people who have not realised they made a jump to a judgements (you know, how most people changed their mind about Jessie) D) None of these people are going to jail...

Well, except maybe the 10 year old rape victim. Because that's how justice works

Again, you're argument isnt bad. It's the fact that you only target certain people and let others off scott free
 
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Terminal Blue

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I thought they were coded as Persian. This isn't a joke, by the way. I legit thought that was what they were going for. Kind of ancient Persian empire vibes.
I mean, because it's a fictional ethnicity and culture you could easily argue either. If I had to nail it down I would say they seem mostly ancient mesopotamian. The pyramid temples/palaces they build are reminiscent of Ziggurats. Their principle deity is a harpy which is a Greek mythological creature but reminiscent of the tendency to depict deities and spirits as human-animal hybrids with wings.

But I think it would be fair to say that they're generally orientalized in a way that's more overt than most other Essoi ethnic groups. They're less one specific ethnicity than a vague sense of non-specific middle-eastern brown people vibes. It doesn't help that their entire civilization is presented as particularly vile, evil and inhumane in a way that kind of reflects historical stereotypes about those people..
 
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Trunkage

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You can, but if you're adapting a work, and make major changes to the work, don't be surprised when eyebrows start to be raised.

Can LotR function if all the hobbits are gay and produce asexually or something? Um, I guess. Is it a weird change? Hell yes.
Why would it be weird?
 

CM156

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I mean, because it's a fictional ethnicity and culture you could easily argue either. If I had to nail it down I would say they seem mostly ancient mesopotamian. The pyramid temples/palaces they build are reminiscent of Ziggurats. Their principle deity is a harpy which is a Greek mythological creature but reminiscent of the tendency to depict deities and spirits as human-animal hybrids with wings.

But I think it would be fair to say that they're generally orientalized in a way that's more overt than most other Essoi ethnic groups. They're less one specific ethnicity than a vague sense of non-specific middle-eastern brown people vibes. It doesn't help that their entire civilization is presented as particularly vile, evil and inhumane in a way that kind of reflects historical stereotypes about those people..
I think that's a good analysis. I think one could make a lot of hay in papers talking about the Orientalization of seasons 2 through 6 of GOT.
 

Hawki

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Why would it be weird?
Obvious trolling is obvious, but okay, here's your answers:

-Adaptation Standpoint: If I adapted Lord of the Rings, with the sole difference being that all of the hobbits are gay, people would logically ask why. It's a random change that doesn't change much and only raises questions that are presumably never answered, so people would logically ask why make the change in the first place?

-In-universe Standpoint: Why would an entire species be all gay? Hobbits are relatives of Men, so even casting aside the obvious questions as to why and how such a drastic shift occurred, how are hobbits meant to reproduce? I guess it's technically possible, but presumably every hobbit would loathe coitus. And speaking of which:

-Biological Standpoint: Hobbits are related to Men (humans), we know how multicellular animals, mammals included, function, and that includes opposite sex animals reproducing through opposite-sex pairings. So either your hypothetical homosexual hobbits are an exception to this (having some other means of reproduction), or have evolved in such a manner where such a process is distasteful, which doesn't make sense in evolutionary terms.

So, yeah, making the hobbits gay would be weird. Frankly, I think the larger ball is in your court is to explain why it wouldn't be.
 

TheMysteriousGX

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Obvious trolling is obvious, but okay, here's your answers:

-Adaptation Standpoint: If I adapted Lord of the Rings, with the sole difference being that all of the hobbits are gay, people would logically ask why. It's a random change that doesn't change much and only raises questions that are presumably never answered, so people would logically ask why make the change in the first place?

-In-universe Standpoint: Why would an entire species be all gay? Hobbits are relatives of Men, so even casting aside the obvious questions as to why and how such a drastic shift occurred, how are hobbits meant to reproduce? I guess it's technically possible, but presumably every hobbit would loathe coitus. And speaking of which:

-Biological Standpoint: Hobbits are related to Men (humans), we know how multicellular animals, mammals included, function, and that includes opposite sex animals reproducing through opposite-sex pairings. So either your hypothetical homosexual hobbits are an exception to this (having some other means of reproduction), or have evolved in such a manner where such a process is distasteful, which doesn't make sense in evolutionary terms.

So, yeah, making the hobbits gay would be weird. Frankly, I think the larger ball is in your court is to explain why it wouldn't be.
Some on the hobbits have 2 bussys and some don't have any ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Generally though, when people say "the hobbits" when talking about Lord of the Rings, they generally mean the main 4 and that's a valid read
 
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Hawki

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Generally though, when people say "the hobbits" when talking about Lord of the Rings, they generally mean the main 4 and that's a valid read
If you're talking about the four hobbits of the Fellowship, then that becomes easier. You'd have to alter/leave out some stuff, but the story can easily function if that's the case. If you (not you personally) wanted to make an adaptation where that was the case...um, sure? Go for it?
 

Silvanus

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I'm sorry I said I'd rather people wait until something is investigated before jumping to conclusions.
You didn't, though. In fact, you did the opposite: you whined that people didn't assume guilt of Jussie Smollett before the investigation was concluded.
 
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Agema

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You didn't, though. In fact, you did the opposite: you whined that people didn't assume guilt of Jussie Smollett before the investigation was concluded.
Free Jussie Smollett!!!!!!
 

Dwarvenhobble

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You didn't, though. In fact, you did the opposite: you whined that people didn't assume guilt of Jussie Smollett before the investigation was concluded.
Not they assumed innocence and were attacking anyone daring to suggest anything other than total innocence while also using the situation to attacked perceived political opponents at the same fucking time.
 
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