More evidence provided to show the right wing of the Labour party sabotaged Corbyn and everyone associated with him.

Silvanus

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Home I agree, but abroad nope. There are 7-9 billion people. Also the last time the Us helped countries with FDI, the communists in China backstab us. Peter Zeihan is right, there will never be the 1990s again.
FDI isn't merely aid. It's an inextricable corporate control mechanism, connecting aid to exploitative corporate interests.

The US was and is perfectly capable of providing assistance without these profit-driven strings attached, but chooses not to. Their attachment to immoral profit chasing hampers their ability and willingness to improve the quality of life globally.

(The same is also true of the PRC, which provides plentiful investment in Africa but also insists on connecting it to exploitative corporate contracts. They're peas in a pod).
 

Gergar12

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FDI isn't merely aid. It's an inextricable corporate control mechanism, connecting aid to exploitative corporate interests.

The US was and is perfectly capable of providing assistance without these profit-driven strings attached, but chooses not to. Their attachment to immoral profit chasing hampers their ability and willingness to improve the quality of life globally.

(The same is also true of the PRC, which provides plentiful investment in Africa but also insists on connecting it to exploitative corporate contracts. They're peas in a pod).
I hard disagree with the notion that the US should provide handouts to countries including many who hate the US to make us feel better if you want a better life come to the US, we will not be giving a dime of block grants to countries some of whom have harbored terrorists, or sided with the soviets during the Cold War.
 

Silvanus

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I hard disagree with the notion that the US should provide handouts to countries including many who hate the US to make us feel better if you want a better life come to the US, we will not be giving a dime of block grants to countries some of whom have harbored terrorists, or sided with the soviets during the Cold War.
The US has harbored terrorists, and has made equally atrocious international alliances-- including sponsoring military insurgencies and anti-democratic movements to overthrow elected governments abroad.

You believe they should pretend to hold a moral high ground as an excuse to hoard unearned wealth, while simultaneously acting just as poorly as those they condemn. It's untenable, hypocritical guff.
 

Gergar12

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You believe they should pretend to hold a moral high ground as an excuse to hoard unearned wealth, while simultaneously acting just as poorly as those they condemn. It's untenable, hypocritical guff.
1664577786483.png

Now my posiiton is more nunanced than that. If you had no choice but to join the Warsaw Pact, then the US forgives them as evident by their policy. If your the Syrian Government who shills for Russia, an IRGC officer, a CCP or CPC backstabber who was given everything by the US but choose to defect, I don't agree with sending your government aid because your elites are trash.

I will admit to one error, and that is Armenia, given how brutal the Azeris are, I was wrong, and we should likely bomb Baku if we want to protect democracy worldwide even if I like Caspian Report because they are a democracy.

I will also repeat the quote my professor love drilling into my head, and likely affected me.

""The strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must"

This guy

 
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Silvanus

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Now my posiiton is more nunanced than that. If you had no choice but to join the Warsaw Pact, then the US forgives them as evident by their policy. If your the Syrian Government who shills for Russia, an IRGC officer, a CCP or CPC backstabber who was given everything by the US but choose to defect, I don't agree with sending your government aid because your elites are trash.
So: you're talking indignantly here about things like "backstabbing" and "shilling" for hostile powers...

... while simultaneously stating that the US should act just as badly as its rivals. So you evidently don't actually have a principled objection to these approaches.

In which case, why should anyone take that stance seriously? They cannot criticise or condemn others for doing what they do themselves. They have no moral standing.
 

Gergar12

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So: you're talking indignantly here about things like "backstabbing" and "shilling" for hostile powers...

... while simultaneously stating that the US should act just as badly as its rivals. So you evidently don't actually have a principled objection to these approaches.

In which case, why should anyone take that stance seriously? They cannot criticise or condemn others for doing what they do themselves. They have no moral standing.
Again the strong do they can, and the weak suffer what they must. Morality is subjective your morality is not my morality.
 

Terminal Blue

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Your a typical alt left, anti-NATO ideologue.
I am largely indifferent regarding the moral worth of defense alliances. I imagine you will find that most people are. The question is, why are you so partisan on the subject?

As for the meme, yeah I use certain memes for certain people I dislike, I use Munich hanging memes for Nazis, helicopter memes for communists like JC, French style memes for the elite, and neoliberals.
One of these things is very much not like the others.

Pinochet attempted to justify the atrocities committed under his rule by claiming they were necessary to save Argentina from communism. In truth, the vast, vast majority of the people his regieme tortured and killed weren't communists (as if it would matter if they were). They included members of other political parties and their families, social activists and their families, journalists and their families, intellectuals and their families, priests, ethnic minorities, trade unionists.

Chilean torturers (many of whom had been trained by the CIA as part of operation Condor) would put live rats into people's vaginas and anuses and force women to have sex with dogs, they would crush people's legs by running them over with trucks over and over again. The purpose of torture was not to extract useful information, but to incite fear in the population at the prospect of being detained. Pinochet himself would personally participate in this torture during visits to camps and detention centres, including raping detained women.

The "helicopter" memes, as you call them, refer to the practice of dumping the bodies of torture victims into the sea, thus ensuring they would never be recovered and denying their families the closure of knowing what happened to them. It is simply the last cruelty in a system of organized cruelty.

By even pretending that Pinochet's crimes have anything to do with communism, you are participating in the attempt by fascists to excuse or exonerate his regime for the torture and murder of tens of thousands of people whose only crime, in the vast majority of cases, was disagreeing with the brutal dictatorship that ruled their country, or being related to someone who was suspected of any such disagreement.

I don't care what you think your politics are. When you attempt to weaponize that kind of cruelty and horror over something as trivial and stupid as a political disagreement (which I don't think you really understand anyway) you're either a fascist or you're such a failed human being that you may as well be.

As for morals, they are but a luxury in this world, the real fascists', communists don't use them, so why should I.
..is what a fascist would say.

Also didn't the left has killed tens to hundreds of millions in and due to China, and the USSR.
You aren't posting memes celebrating those atrocities though, are you?

There is also a fundamental difference here, for two reasons.

The first is that our governments did not actively participate in the campaigns of organized mass killing in the USSR and China. Again, Pinochet's security apparatus (the people doing the torture) were given training and support by the CIA as part of a US neocolonialist policy aimed at populating south America with compliant, economically exploitable regimes. Margaret Thatcher, prime minister of Britain, was personal friends with Pinochet and deliberately worked to weaken international criticism of his regime. It is generally very poor practice to celebrate atrocities which your country participated in or benefited from.

The second is the fundamental difference in the nature of the atrocities. See, fascists make memes about Pinochet because they like the sadism. They like the fact that the torture is excessive and theatrical. They like the fact that it involves a particular brutality and cruelty towards women because they enjoy the idea of women being put in their place. It fulfills that fascist fantasy of taking revenge against a population that didn't recognize your greatness or whatever.

By comparison, the atrocities in the USSR and China are very boring and clinical. To get the level of sadism the right gets off on, you'd need to go to Cambodia, and how often do you see leftists talking about Cambodia?
 
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Gergar12

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I am largely indifferent regarding the moral worth of defense alliances. I imagine you will find that most people are. The question is, why are you so partisan on the subject?



One of these things is very much not like the others.

Pinochet attempted to justify the atrocities committed under his rule by claiming they were necessary to save Argentina from communism. In truth, the vast, vast majority of the people his regieme tortured and killed weren't communists (as if it would matter if they were). They included members of other political parties and their families, social activists and their families, journalists and their families, intellectuals and their families, priests, ethnic minorities, trade unionists.

Chilean torturers (many of whom had been trained by the CIA as part of operation Condor) would put live rats into people's vaginas and anuses and force women to have sex with dogs, they would crush people's legs by running them over with trucks over and over again. The purpose of torture was not to extract useful information, but to incite fear in the population at the prospect of being detained. Pinochet himself would personally participate in this torture during visits to camps and detention centres, including raping detained women.

The "helicopter" memes, as you call them, refer to the practice of dumping the bodies of torture victims into the sea, thus ensuring they would never be recovered and denying their families the closure of knowing what happened to them. It is simply the last cruelty in a system of organized cruelty.

By even pretending that Pinochet's crimes have anything to do with communism, you are participating in the attempt by fascists to excuse or exonerate his regime for the torture and murder of tens of thousands of people whose only crime, in the vast majority of cases, was disagreeing with the brutal dictatorship that ruled their country, or being related to someone who was suspected of any such disagreement.

I don't care what you think your politics are. When you attempt to weaponize that kind of cruelty and horror over something as trivial and stupid as a political disagreement (which I don't think you really understand anyway) you're either a fascist or you're such a failed human being that you may as well be.



..is what a fascist would say.



You aren't posting memes celebrating those atrocities though, are you?
Typical alt-lefter, calls people a fascist when they lose an argument. I am a realist not a fascist. Try reading a book. How many times has JC been in power zero, and that's a good thing. My guy the realist won, I voted for Biden over Trump. Go back to Islington with the rest of the communists.

The first is that our governments did not actively participate in the campaigns of organized mass killing in the USSR and China.
- Don't Chomsky rule me, you communist. I lived in China.
 
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Gergar12

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For the truth on him read this post.


Mr Allende was an incompetent Marxist in Chile’s socialist party (PS - Partido Socialista) who garnered the support of armed gangs such as the MIR. Mr Allende was elected president of Chile in 1970 even though about two-thirds of the voters didn’t want him, and voted that way against him.

Mr Allende’s government, under the “economic advice” of Cuba, looted the country’s reserves, drove the economy into the ground, stole the property of foreign and domestic businesses and individuals, sponsored roving gangs of marxist hooligans which drove many out of the country, secretly imported weapons and other war materials into the country from Cuba, and acted in a manner that violated the terms by which the Chilean legislature had conditionally allowed him to act as president.

Having impressed the Soviet Union with his recklessness and lack of any real utility by early 1973, Mr Allende’s support from the USSR diminished, while Castro’s Cuba provided him with bodyguards and other agents.

In 1973, the Chilean legislature democratically voted a resolution that the nation’s armed forces and police must remove Mr Allende from office — which they did shortly thereafter. Mr Allende was offered a flight out of Chile, to leave in exile. He refused, and instead committed suicide with the assault rifle given to him by Fidel Castro.


Edit: More posts from people that actually lived there unlike some people


Allende:

  1. Expropiated Kennecott (today’s Rio Tinto) and Anaconda (today owned by British Petroleum) copper mining operations, forcing the American companies to pay Ms of $ to Chile in debt. It’s still debated whether this was justified or not, since Allende believed these companies owed $Bs to the State in taxes, others claiming they only made use of legal gaps in the contracts.
  2. Ruled a poorly planned expropiation of land, industries, real state and businesses. Many honest business owners lost everything, sometimes choosing between exile and suicide.
  3. Appointed unqualified people to lead key companies, much like ex-USSR’s political commisaries. Industrial plants were ruled by “boards” of blue-collar workers, ports managed by fishermen or dock workers, agriculture and food production run by farmers, etc. producing severe loss and scarcity.
  4. Ignored the rampant corruption among Gov. officers, who controlled the supply of basic goods and access to luxury items, producing scarcity, active black market and a severe social crisis.
  5. Promoted populist projects like economic autarchy, or building TV sets and cars to replace imports, all of this unfeasible at the time.
  6. Pushed the country to a high political polarization. Chileans (very pacific people) begun talking of civil war for the first time since 1891.
  7. Left a country with post-war economy: 360% inflation, no industry, and food stocks for 6 days.
  8. The most disastrous administration in Chile’s recent history, only second to the nitrate crisis and Great Depression of 1930.
 

Gordon_4

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I'll be one hundred percent honest, I don't remember anyone here thinking much of either Allende or Pinochet.
 

crimson5pheonix

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Typical alt-lefter, calls people a fascist when they lose an argument. I am a realist not a fascist. Try reading a book. How many times has JC been in power zero, and that's a good thing. My guy the realist won, I voted for Biden over Trump. Go back to Islington with the rest of the communists.

The first is that our governments did not actively participate in the campaigns of organized mass killing in the USSR and China.
- Don't Chomsky rule me, you communist. I lived in China.
Well I mean you are at the very least a fascism apologist. "Pinochet was okay because Allende taxed people" isn't particularly compelling.
 
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Gergar12

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Then let's talk about Corbyn.


He has also been supportive of—and attended—al Quds day
Wikipedia
rallies,[55] which support antisemitism,[56] incitement to racial hatred, and support of terrorist organizations.[57]
  • Jeremy has also spoken at Al Quds Day events. In the 2012 speech, he made allusions to Israel having Nazi-style prison camps for dissident Palestinians, basically calling Israeli occupation a police state with "checkpoints and watch towers".[58] At the same time, Corbyn was photographed standing in front of a Hezbollah flag (a major PR blunder, to say the least)—the person who took the photograph was (and is) a supporter of Corbyn's who refused to sell his picture to the press and says it was "unfortunate" the photo was taken in front of the flag

He is an anti-Semitic asshole.

He is pro-Russia
  • Corbyn controversially argued that evidence of rebel responsibility for the use of sarin gas in Syria
    Wikipedia
    was stronger than evidence the Syrian government (who are allied with Russia) were the perpetrators.[64]


  • He has also blamed the ongoing conflict in Ukraine on NATO's expansion eastward.[65] While he has stated that "I am not an admirer or supporter of Putin's foreign policy, or of Russian or anybody else's expansion",[66] he also suggested NATO should agree not to include Ukraine as a member state in exchange for Putin removing his troops.[67][68] Corbyn's views on NATO's expansion are similar to those of Harvard professor Stephen Walt
    Wikipedia
    .[69]
  • Corbyn has said he would rather the UK were not a member of NATO.[70] He has suggested closing it down[71] and said it should have been disbanded in 1990.[72] He is the first Labour leader to not support the military alliance.[72] Ben Judah
    Wikipedia
    said that taking the UK out of NATO would "pointlessly destabilise Europe" and strengthen Russia.[73]

  • He has also blamed the ongoing conflict in Ukraine on NATO's expansion eastward.[65] While he has stated that "I am not an admirer or supporter of Putin's foreign policy, or of Russian or anybody else's expansion",[66] he also suggested NATO should agree not to include Ukraine as a member state in exchange for Putin removing his troops.[67][68] Corbyn's views on NATO's expansion are similar to those of Harvard professor Stephen Walt
    Wikipedia
    .[69]
  • Corbyn has said he would rather the UK were not a member of NATO.[70] He has suggested closing it down[71] and said it should have been disbanded in 1990.[72] He is the first Labour leader to not support the military alliance.[72] Ben Judah
    Wikipedia
    said that taking the UK out of NATO would "pointlessly destabilise Europe" and strengthen Russia.[73]

  • Corbyn supports and recommends the Russian propaganda[63][81] outlet RT.[78][82] He has also appeared as a guest on RT.[63]
 

Gergar12

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Well I mean you are at the very least a fascism apologist. "Pinochet was okay because Allende taxed people" isn't particularly compelling.
Dude, he ran gangs in Chile. The guy was a communist who pretended to be a democratic socialist.

Mr Allende was an incompetent Marxist in Chile’s socialist party (PS - Partido Socialista) who garnered the support of armed gangs such as the MIR. Mr Allende was elected president of Chile in 1970 even though about two-thirds of the voters didn’t want him, and voted that way against him.

Learn to read.