If DeSantis wins

[The Rogue Wolf]

Now Florida doesn't want students to learn about BLM or "taking a knee", but they should know “how slaves developed skills which, in some instances, could be applied for their personal benefit.”

New Florida black history curriculum says slavery had ‘personal benefits’

The Florida Board of Education approved a controversial new curriculum for African American history this week.

nypost.com

C'mon, c'mon! Just say it out loud! "BEING ENSLAVED WAS GOOD FOR BLACK PEOPLE!"

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

The only reasonable explanation that you won't show me where in the bill/law it says what you say it says is because it's not in there.

So yes, you believe everybody was and is lying about it, from lawyers to doctors to advocates, based on your gut feeling

 

[tstorm823]

Now Florida doesn't want students to learn about BLM or "taking a knee", but they should know “how slaves developed skills which, in some instances, could be applied for their personal benefit.”

C'mon, c'mon! Just say it out loud! "BEING ENSLAVED WAS GOOD FOR BLACK PEOPLE!"

If you consider that a little more openly, they could be discussing how enslaved and eventually free people found opportunities even in their bleak circumstances to make lives for themselves. That line could easily be describing people who heroically overcame their oppression from within.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

If you consider that a little more openly, they could be discussing how enslaved and eventually free people found opportunities even in their bleak circumstances to make lives for themselves. That line could easily be describing people who heroically overcame their oppression from within.

It didn't make them Not Slaves, so what oppression were they overcoming specifically?

Bit rich coming from the party that demands slaving traitors be their heritage and that everybody else should clap for them instead of choosing, like, abolitionists and freedom fighters from the same area

This is hardly the first time conservatives have tried to claim being enslaved was good for black people. That line goes *all* the way back

 

[Thaluikhain]

This is hardly the first time conservatives have tried to claim being enslaved was good for black people. That line goes *all* the way back

As far as it possibly can, in that pro-slavery types were using that line when slavery was still legal.

 

[The Rogue Wolf]

If you consider that a little more openly, they could be discussing how enslaved and eventually free people found opportunities even in their bleak circumstances to make lives for themselves. That line could easily be describing people who heroically overcame their oppression from within.

Are you really trying to be an apologist for slavery? Really? Is there a line you won't cross?

 

[Bedinsis]

If you consider that a little more openly, they could be discussing how enslaved and eventually free people found opportunities even in their bleak circumstances to make lives for themselves. That line could easily be describing people who heroically overcame their oppression from within.

Hardly. That does not follow. If it was about slaves developing the skill to reject internalized oppression then that is not a skill you develop as an enslaved person. That is the first skill a slaveholder makes sure their slave does not gather. Besides, the externalized oppression was strong enough that even talking about oppression from within is missing the mark.

 

[Ag3ma]

If you consider that a little more openly, they could be discussing how enslaved and eventually free people found opportunities even in their bleak circumstances to make lives for themselves. That line could easily be describing people who heroically overcame their oppression from within.

Sure. The argument is not, per se, unreasonable. In a sense it's a truism: some members of the lowest strata of any society have always been able to find opportunities for improvement and advancement. One might argue, however, the far more important thing to dwell on is the systematic and institutional forces that prevented the vast majority from doing so.

In fact, that message of systematic societal disadvantage should still resonate today in terms of poverty, low educational standards, racism, etc.

I wonder why the Republicans would be so keen to push this message of heroic individuals overcoming systematic disadvantage and downplay slavery?

 

[Absent]

Also in nazi germany the trains arrived ON TIME.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Also in nazi germany the trains arrived ON TIME.

As an aside, Mussolini unfairly took credit for railway improvements that had started before he rose to power.

He did drain some swamps, though, although the Germans flooded them again in WW2 to give people malaria.

 

[tstorm823]

Sure. The argument is not, per se, unreasonable. In a sense it's a truism: some members of the lowest strata of any society have always been able to find opportunities for improvement and advancement. One might argue, however, the far more important thing to dwell on is the systematic and institutional forces that prevented the vast majority from doing so.

In fact, that message of systematic societal disadvantage should still resonate today in terms of poverty, low educational standards, racism, etc.

I wonder why the Republicans would be so keen to push this message of heroic individuals overcoming systematic disadvantage and downplay slavery?

Because it's better to encourage children to make the best of their circumstances, and show them role models who did as such.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

Because it's better to encourage children to make the best of their circumstances, and show them role models who did as such.

"It"a better to encourage children to accept their shitty lives as best they can. God forbid they try for better. Happy slaves should be their role model"

 

[Cheetodust]

Because it's better to encourage children to make the best of their circumstances, and show them role models who did as such.

Exactly. Improve your lot in life. Kill the slave owners, burn down their houses and property and maybe put a stop to their family line. Take control.

 

[Bedinsis]

Because it's better to encourage children to make the best of their circumstances, and show them role models who did as such.

In a discussion of legally instituted ownership of people as property, what is the best thing to do of circumstances if you happen to be one of the persons considered property?

 

[Ag3ma]

Because it's better to encourage children to make the best of their circumstances, and show them role models who did as such.

Yes, and I would suggest the most important way to do this would be to encourage them to engage with the political process to achieve meaningful societal change, similar to the way their forebears fought for it. I would have thought you might be bigger on this than many as a Catholic given that church's oft-stated commitment to social justice, as far as for instance liberation theology in Latin America.

You are effectively talking about "The American Dream". But to some extent this operates as a cover for the USA having social mobility amongst the worst in the developed world. It is harder to raise oneself out of poverty in the USA than its wealthy international peers, not easier. It is harder because of systemic barriers in society. Making the best of oneself is of course a very worthy message, but it should exist alongside frank discussions of how the nature of wider society can or may impact the ability of individuals to develop.

 

[tstorm823]

"It"a better to encourage children to accept their shitty lives as best they can. God forbid they try for better. Happy slaves should be their role model"

You are illustrating exactly my point. Showing people who made something of their situation is showing people who tried for better. There are people in American history who were slaves, made there way higher into society, and became forces working to end slavery. To not spotlight them is to say "slaves just accepted their lives, there was no reason to try for better."

 

[Bedinsis]

There are people in American history who were slaves, made there way higher into society, and became forces working to end slavery. To not spotlight them is to say "slaves just accepted their lives, there was no reason to try for better."

Could you mention one of them? I am curious now.

I am somewhat doubtful how "becoming forces to end slavery" goes hand in hand with "skills which, in some instances, could be applied for personal benefit". If the focus is on "personal benefit" then ending slavery is only personal in the sense that "it is good for society as a whole, therefore good for me" or possibly "I have been enslaved, it was awful, I therefore personally value ending slavery".

I furthermore emphasize that the basic dehumanization that comes from being considered property is circumstances that is the precise opposite of helpful in developing skills to try for better.

 

[Avnger]

Yes, and I would suggest the most important way to do this would be to encourage them to engage with the political process to achieve meaningful societal change, similar to the way their forebears fought for it. I would have thought you might be bigger on this than many as a Catholic given that church's oft-stated commitment to social justice, as far as for instance liberation theology in Latin America.

You are effectively talking about "The American Dream". But to some extent this operates as a cover for the USA having social mobility amongst the worst in the developed world. It is harder to raise oneself out of poverty in the USA than its wealthy international peers, not easier. It is harder because of systemic barriers in society. Making the best of oneself is of course a very worthy message, but it should exist alongside frank discussions of how the nature of wider society can or may impact the ability of individuals to develop.

Tstorm is a trad cath at best. He's about as far from liberation theology or even the Church's more mainstream social justice teachings as one can get without entirely leaving the faith. From that perspective, he has more in common with American evangelicals and prosperity gospel proponents; it's just wrapped in historical Catholic trappings to try and give it legitimacy.

 

[Cheetodust]

You are illustrating exactly my point. Showing people who made something of their situation is showing people who tried for better. There are people in American history who were slaves, made there way higher into society, and became forces working to end slavery. To not spotlight them is to say "slaves just accepted their lives, there was no reason to try for better."

If it wasn't for slavery how could people have escaped slavery is a dimwit take even by your standards.

 

[tstorm823]

Could you mention one of them? I am curious now.

Frederick Douglas.

If it wasn't for slavery how could people have escaped slavery is a dimwit take even by your standards.

Nobody said slavery was good. You've chosen that interpretation.