Yes, I couldn't help but notice some right wing politician in my country mouthing off about how everyone had the right to strive to make the best of themselves, but apparently that concept of "everyone" does not extend to refugees.
Walls work now.
- Thread starter Specter Von Baren
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Did you miss the "make legal immigration quick and easy" part? The only reason it takes years for immigrants to get here legally is because the government is "bothering by the book" in order to keep them from ever being able to get in at all. Remove most of the red tape and we'd be processing tens of thousands of immigrants quickly and efficiently every day all across the border. Those refugees coming right now could be processed across the border as legal in a matter of a few months at the most if we really put a bit of time, money, and effort into doing so.
Any deterrence whatsoever will lessen the issue and the greater the deterrence the less the issue. If going to America illegally instead of legally was barely better than staying in their terrible country then a lot of them would stop bothering to go or they're be more interested in doing so legally.
Why not both? Punish the employers severely and make it illegal for businesses to hire illegals to keep illegals from being able to get the jobs. Businesses trying to circumvent this by paying them under the table get it much much worse.
Yeah, illegal immigrants can switch to cooking crystal meth in a barrel under a bridge before they're arrested and used as
Not at all. Just make it as shitty as possible for illegals to live here while those who live here legally have benefits such as easy access to jobs and housing and food and government.
There's no need to make the country shitty for everybody, just for the illegal immigrants who are, as the name suggests, criminals and thus should be punished for not entering our country in the proper legal way. Natural born and immigrant U.S. Citizens wouldn't be effected by makings things tough for illegal immigrants one iota.
It's not difficult at all to do anything I've proposed, in fact it could've been done with ease decades ago. As for expense it would be more than made up for by the flood of legal immigrants that would thus have to pay income taxes.
The problem is the politicians who sit around in DC arguing about what to do for years and years and years on end rather than ever actually doing anything, which is just a smokescreen. They actually do nothing because they're all receiving kickbacks from businesses to allow these illegals in so they can pay them a pittance. Like nearly all the problems in this country the solutions to them are obvious, it's just a matter of getting people who can do something about this off their asses to actually DO it.
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Or, alternative suggestion, make it shitty exclusively for people like you, in hope that you'll leave and free some room for "illegal immigrants".
Yeah.... the people like me who state what should be done to actually solve the problem should leave. Yeah. Uh huh. Everybody on their high horse too holier than thou to admit to that should joining us then.
The fact is illegal immigrants are just that, illegal. When something illegal is done, people tend to face consequences for it so that they and everybody else don't do that illegal thing. That's kinda how society works.
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Cool, I hope you'll go to jail for that download and that copyrighted streaming.
Still my rationale is as such : We know nothing of an undocumented migrant, except that, statistically, being a human, s/he has a certain (but limited) percentage of chances of being him/herself a proud sociopath, carry their own prejudices and bigotry against some arbitrary human category, and have learnt nothing from their ordeal. Although, this can be slightly nuanced by the fact that okay people tend to flee assholes en masse more often than assholes tend to flee okay people en masse. On the other hand, we have people of whom we know they are prone to criminalize undocumented migrants and rationalize their dehumanizing policies. Personally, I feel much cosier among benevolent, open-minded undocumented migrants (whichever their skin color or language proficiency) than nasty xenophobic ignorant hypocritical bigots with their papers well in order - and so, I'd rather take the statistical portion on the former in place of the certified latter. Hence, if the issue is available resources (spoiler : il isn't, it's merely obscenely unequal and inequitable resource allocation, but no one cares), my brilliant idea to expel xenophobes (or make their lives hell until they migrate away) to make room for migrants in general. Remove the certified nasties for a mix of okay and nasty. It's actually a win for everyone. Decent people are allowed to be together, bad people enjoy not being near those they hate, plus they may learn a thing or two about being on the road - ideally fleeing unsustainable situations or being thrown away without access to paperwork, without access to realistic procedures, only to face closed barriers and hostiles who treat them like degenerates. Again, some might never learn a thing, but what chance would they have otherwise.
Frankly, everyone should thank me for this utopic solution.
It's pretty wild that when faced with a complex global issue, so many people will propose solutions that are essentially: "the same thing that currently already fails to work, just more severe".
It's not really a surprise, because it's "simple":
"These people keep migrating to our country! What are we going to do?"
"Stop them."
"How?"
"Build a wall / destroy their boats."
"Yeah, that makes sense!"
Just like people think lots of massive jail sentences are going to stop crime, despite the fact evidence shows that doesn't seem to work. If you start trying to address difficult things like the stability of their homes countries, those countries' economic options and safety, it all gets a bit tricky and people switch off.
Truth is, illegal immigration is already a gigantic pain to go through. Barriers to employment, accommodation, healthcare, education-- not to mention the enormous danger people go through on the journey, in small boats or borders crossings. People do not just lightly come to that decision. They do so if the alternatives-- either staying in the home country or legally emigrating-- are unreachable or worse.
If options for legal immigration were available enough, very few people would emigrate illegally. They would prefer to move safely and have a better chance at a better life, obviously.
If options for legal immigration were available enough, very few people would emigrate illegally. They would prefer to move safely and have a better chance at a better life, obviously.
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Declaring massive prison sentences is also quick and easy, don't have to go round building lots of expensive walls. If you don't actually prosecute many people you don't even have to build more prisons.
Though I think malice as well as simplicity is a motive.
For a few figures like Suella Braverman, who literally said she dreams of deportation flights, that's certainly true.
Ah Suella. A woman who dreams of flying immigrants to Rwanda, but not of:
- Getting Britons their passports and driving licences in good time
- Allowing people to the cross the UK border efficiently
- Ensuring the police are properly funded and staffed without hiring neo-Nazis, racists and misogynists
- (etc.)
Crossing the border illegally is already a life-risking voyage. Are you aware of the level of shittyness required to up the bar above that?
LOL. The U.S. government hasn't been capable of giving those benefits even to natural born American citizensimmortalfrieza said:
And you are sure about that because... authorities easily can tell citizens from illegal immigrants without doing any check ups whatsoever? Citizens are not going to try to help illegal immigrants (be it out of kindness or for profit) anymore? Citizens that oppose to the cruel measures won't be affected either?immortalfrieza said:
Not to mention, criminalizing hiring illegal immigrants already affect the American business owners who hire such labor. You can't be so dense to not realize you'd need to criminalize such actions even more, and that directly affects citizens and business owners (what would business rather do if stricter penalties were imposed? Implement stricter screening when hiring legal immigrants? Avoiding hiring any immigrants? Or move their business to another country where hiring people isn't as shitty).
Finally, all the cost to implement the shittyness must come from some place: you either raise the taxes or siphon it from the budget for existing infrastructure (either of them impacting negatively American citizens)
If water doesn't boil when you heat it a little bit, heating it more and more will actually cause it to boil eventually. You can't really say in a broad sense that trying something even more will not break through and start working. Though of course it hugely depends on the particulars at hand.
Except water doesn’t actively resist boiling. Nor can it use creativity to dodge the pan. As is often said, if you build a better mousetrap, nature creates a better mouse.
Bah, that's the boring way. Instead of increasing heat, just lower the boiling point of the water. Far more impressive.
Doesn't matter. Make it 1/100th as shitty to live here as it is to live where they came front when previously it was 1/10000th as shitty to live here, a lot less people are going to stop bothering to come. It attacks the problem from both angles. It demotivates illegal immigrants from coming here in the first place and motivates illegals to become legal citizens. Both are needed to truly solve the problem.
And? If it's no worse for the now legal immigrants than it is for us but it's monumentally more shitty for the illegal immigrants, that solves the issue. "Easy access" means there isn't a metric ton of laws and regulations preventing it. "Easy access" means the now legal immigrants have to get off of their butts and earn a living like everybody else rather than leeching off the country and contributing nothing. It puts legal immigrants on an even playing field with natural born American citizens while putting illegal immigrants down as low as possible.
Simple checkups that take all of 10 seconds to do. It's called an ID card/driver's license. The thing legal citizens are able to easily get. It's not even the authorities that actually need to know the difference anyway with anything I proposed.
You want to rent an apartment? Oh, you're illegal? Denied.
You want to buy a house? Oh, you're illegal? Denied.
You want to get a job? Oh, you're illegal? Denied.
You want health insurance and access to medical services? Oh, you're illegal? Denied.
You want government programs to help pull you out of poverty? On, you're illegal? Denied.
Then the illegals look and see:
You want to rent an apartment? Oh, you're legal? When can you move in?
You want to buy a house? Oh, you're legal? The place is yours!
You want to get a job? Oh, you're legal? Welcome aboard!
You want health insurance and access to medical services? Oh, you're legal? Sure!
You want government programs to help pull you out of poverty? On, you're legal? Here you go!
...and as a result the illegals start thinking being legal is a good idea.
If they don't want to be arrested for aiding and abetting criminals, they won't aid illegal immigrants for any reason.
There's zero cruel about what I've proposed. All that I've proposed is not allowing illegal immigrants to benefit from living in the United States. I'm not saying go out and form lynch mobs or beating illegal immigrants in the streets or anything, just make it so they don't get anything out of living here.
There's simply too many illegal immigrants to do what we should be doing, throwing them in jail. If people want to oppose simply not permitting people who are committing a crime by illegally crossing the border to get anything out of living in America well, go for it. Everybody with a slight bit of sense will laugh themselves sick as the ones who oppose make fools of themselves opposing "cruel" measures that aren't cruel in the least.
And? Obviously the punishments aren't strict enough if they keep hiring illegals anyway.
Businesses that are able to are already outsourcing every job they possibly can to other countries where they can pay workers a pittance. It wouldn't change a thing. Businesses going elsewhere for their workers is another issue entirely.
As I already mentioned it would easily pay for itself. By making immigrating legal fast and easy, the deluge of now legal immigrants will now have to pay taxes. Those taxes will cover the cost of "the shittiness" as you insist on calling it and then some.
It's not that the answer isn't right in front of everybody's faces, it's that nobody in power cares to actually solve the problem. Meanwhile there's people out there that somehow think it's "cruel" to simply prevent criminals from being able to benefit from their crime and encouraging them to instead do it the perfectly legal way.
And in this case, we already know that ratcheting up punishments beyond a certain point is ineffective. Hence why the death penalty doesn't have an appreciable deterrence effect.
The death penalty doesn't have an effect against hardened criminals who are the types to commonly commit the sorts of crimes one would get executed for, since they are used to playing with their life on a daily basis. If the argument is that these people are fleeing their countries to save their lives, I don't see how you could claim they are just as frivolous with risking it as career criminals would be.