US 2024 Presidential Election

Agema

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Gaetz is back in the good books
I'm not sure he is.

Cabinet posts should be Senate approved, and I suspect Gaetz is up for a very rough ride. He might be one of the sacrificial lambs under the time-honoured tactic of putting forward very objectionable stuff in order to make the averagely objectionable seem reasonable. However, if the House release a report that savages him before the Senate even get to him, he might have to withdraw (or be withdrawn) before he's put up for slaughter.

After all, this is politics. Anything spicy, there's no way somebody isn't getting their hands on that report in time to spill it before or at his confirmation hearing.
 

crimson5pheonix

It took 6 months to read my title.
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HUH?! Surely the face eating leopard party would never eat THEIR face! Who would have thought?!

(No idea why the tweet isn't appearing, but apparently Muslims who campaigned for Trump somehow are surprised he's pro Bibi)

You can't keep it with the x.com domain, you have to switch it to twitter.com

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tstorm823

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Three witnesses to his presence at the sex and drugs party, which you previously said only Greenberg had attested. The article is not ambiguous on that point.
3 affidavits squished into one summary with no direct quotes has so many levels of ambiguity.
? Because I think it's less of a leap.
You think someone saying that they know he's a pedophile is less of a leap than people out the criminal case was factually dropped from lack of evidence.

Did you know that lying makes you look dumb?
 

Phoenixmgs

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The MSM has been whitewashing what Trump did for years. They get away with it because they pretend to be 'unbiased' like Fox towards Trump.... but they don't actually criticism Trump as much as they should.


So... way more regulations
What are you talking about? MSNBC didn't even air a Trump victory speech because it was "dangerous".

Over 70% of food in grocery stores isn't even food.
 

Chimpzy

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(No idea why the tweet isn't appearing, but apparently Muslims who campaigned for Trump somehow are surprised he's pro Bibi)
It's because the forum is too outdated to recognize x.com urls as embeddable media. Change a x.com url to twitter.com, and it'll embed again.

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Silvanus

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3 affidavits squished into one summary with no direct quotes has so many levels of ambiguity.
Which in your world means they can be safely ignored. I don't know why you expect otherwise, but sometimes the court by necessity has access to more detail than the public.

But there's no ambiguity in the article to one thing: that his presence at that party was not only attested by Greenberg.

You think someone saying that they know he's a pedophile is less of a leap than people out the criminal case was factually dropped from lack of evidence.
Nope. It's less of a leap than pretending the entire case rests on one sex trafficker's claim and nothing whatsoever else and ignoring the committee investigation altogether.

You lied when you presented it that way. It didn't make you look dumb, because I suspect you did it on purpose to launder the party's reputation. It certainly made you look hypocritical.
 

Asita

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You're not going to beat me in an argument by insisting I explicitly argued for only your personal interpretation of my words.

Maybe you're missing most of the message here, and fixated on the "97% negative" coverage portion alone. Read the first Gorf sentence you quoted: they're strategy has been smearing and censorship rather than real consideration of what policies they have that appeal to voters. When I say about "telling people to hate this man", that is referring to the smearing and censorship, which were done in place of convincing people to support them with their vision of America. The central strategy for Democrats was "You can't vote for Trump because he was indicted, and impeached, and mocked by all the late night shows, cause he's Hitler and a threat to democracy." Their campaign was a cudgel, and the cudgel failed.
Ok, for starters:
1) You are now trying to deflect by claiming that I was focused more on another user than your own characterization that "the mainstream media, social media, and all 3 branches of government all worked in concert to try to tell people to hate this man", which you are now dishonestly trying to paint as limited to Democrat campaign strategy (Which is especially rich coming from you, Mr. "Democrats and the Media, but I repeat myself").

And:
2) You are still turning one hell of a blind eye to Republican rhetoric which has consistently been painting Democrats as infiltrators, saboteurs, and in the pocket of foreign powers (communists, Arabian Muslims, Mexicans, etc) for more than four decades now (which can go up to 80+ if we count the whole 'Left == commy traitor' equivocation that McCarthy kicked off in the 1940s) never mind how heavily Trump et al's own rhetoric took the form of telling people to hate his political enemies and vote for him out of raw spite for Democrats (which he further equivocates with the "Deep State"), with Trump having built his entire political persona around tossing schoolyard mockery at the myriad people he wants to disparage. MAGA's entire political identity is built around Trump's narrative to his constituents that they should be outraged by anything and everything that isn't to his explicit advantage, which he spins as being "unfair" to him and any criticism of him (no matter how minor or severe) is necessarily illegitimate, and demanding that everyone treat anything and everything that he didn't like as a travesty brought about by his ideological opponents (such as treating the Women's Soccer team winning bronze in the Olympics as disgraceful and blaming that on "Leftist Maniacs").

That throws a monkey wrench into you assertion that these same voters were - let's say it directly - free thinkers who "rejected the narrative" that they had been fed, as that pointedly overlooks that the very thing you're arguing was itself the very same narrative that Trump et al had been feeding them for nearly a decade, and moreover that his supporters have long since come to define themselves by that same narrative (it's literally their marker for "consciousness of kind"), in a way not at all dissimilar to the antivaxxers, 9/11 Truthers, and "teach the controversy" crowd. In each case, the narrative that they have been fed and embraced is that "the narrative" is unfairly against their position, that by rejecting it they are proving themselves to be free thinkers, and furthermore that means that propagating their belief will be a victory for truth/science/democracy, etc. Hence why I say that your championing of that exact same narrative is lacking in self-awareness and ultimately self-aggrandizing.

With that out of the way, your bit about "beating you" also strikes me as lacking in self awareness. What I think you have sincerely never understood or respected about argumentation is that - to borrow court terminology - as a participant you are neither the judge nor the jury. You're one of the attorneys arguing your case. You are not the arbiter of your own performance. And the people you're arguing with don't have to convince you that you're beaten (in fact, anyone with any faculty with the discipline will tell you that trying to convince your opponent is a fool's errand), they just have to convince the people reading along that your arguments are less compelling. And as we've seen, people are not finding your waffle to be compelling.

Having said that, however, as this is turning into a debate over you rather than being topical to the thread, going any further down that rabbit hole would amount to little more than an exercise in ego for both of us. And that's not worth pursuing. I've said my piece about Trump being held to a lower standard and your characterization of events being very self-serving. I don't particularly feel the need to venture further down the rabbit hole of proving what you said and implied.

Outside of Fox News, what mainstream media was in Trump's favor? Harris even got all the celebrity endorsements. Even late night talk shows are all liberal besides the one on Fox. Johnny Carson made it a point not to say who he was voting for whereas it's really fucking obvious with Colbert or Kimmel that was literally crying that Trump won.
Top of my head? Fox, Sky News Australia, Breitbart, Washington Examiner, New York Post, OAN, the Washington Times, the Boston Herald, the New York Observer...

Though let's cut out the middle man, skip past the "oh you namedropped a few things but that doesn't matter" waffle, cut to the heart of your contention (which was that Trump didn't have meaningful support and therefore had the deck stacked against him), and start breaking out the lists of who was stumping for him, shall we? You know, the politicians, the businessmen, musicians, writers, actors, influencers, organizations, etc.

List of Donald Trump 2016 Presidential Campaign endorsements
List of Donald Trump 2020 Presidential Campaign political endorsements
List of Donald Trump 2020 Presidential Campaign non-political endorsements
List of Donald Trump 2024 Presidential Campaign political endorsements
List of Donald Trump 2024 Presidential Campaign non-political endorsements

And mind you, that's just the official endorsements.

Again: By no stretch of the imagination was Trump a dark horse candidate in this race.
 
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Trunkage

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What are you talking about? MSNBC didn't even air a Trump victory speech because it was "dangerous".

Over 70% of food in grocery stores isn't even food.
Dangerous is whitewashing. He is way worse than dangerous.

I don't know how not showing one thing is proof. They kept on recording Trump words to make him sound more reasonable and intelligent. Then you listen to him live and you can see where the MSM edited his performance to make him look better
 

tstorm823

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Which in your world means they can be safely ignored. I don't know why you expect otherwise, but sometimes the court by necessity has access to more detail than the public.
I don't expect otherwise. We lack details that you are claiming to know, that's what I'm saying. The people who do have all the details declined to prosecute.
 

tstorm823

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Ok, for starters:
1) You are now trying to deflect by claiming that I was focused more on another user than your own characterization that "the mainstream media, social media, and all 3 branches of government all worked in concert to try to tell people to hate this man", which you are now dishonestly trying to paint as limited to Democrat campaign strategy (Which is especially rich coming from you, Mr. "Democrats and the Media, but I repeat myself").
You keep reading things that aren't there. When did I say it's only a Democratic campaign strategy? How is referring to Gorf's post a deflection when that post was your stated reason for reading mine the way you did?
With that out of the way, your bit about "beating you" also strikes me as lacking in self awareness. What I think you have sincerely never understood or respected about argumentation is that - to borrow court terminology - as a participant you are neither the judge nor the jury. You're one of the attorneys arguing your case. You are not the arbiter of your own performance. And the people you're arguing with don't have to convince you that you're beaten (in fact, anyone with any faculty with the discipline will tell you that trying to convince your opponent is a fool's errand), they just have to convince the people reading along that your arguments are less compelling. And as we've seen, people are not finding your waffle to be compelling.
It is you that does not understand the nature of argument. This is not a debate, this is not a trial, there is no defined winner or loser, it is not a zero-sum game. Arguing is exchanging ideas, attempting to convince people. If at any point you make an argument that convinces me, I can take your argument, and then I also have the convincing argument. You think performing for the audience is some measure of victory, but the truth is that you are not only failing to actually convince anyone who didn't agree with you in the first place, you are selling out your connection to the truth for the sake of that performance. You can't possibly believe that you somehow know better what I intended to say than I did, but you see that as the most expedient way to reach "right-wing guy wrong", and you ran with it. The only way to fail in an argument for argument's sake is to state a case that you don't find convincing. That's why you're not going to win by just pretending I said something I didn't. You might get the clapping seals here to clap for you, but that's not a victory.
 

BrawlMan

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It's because the forum is too outdated to recognize x.com urls as embeddable media. Change a x.com url to twitter.com, and it'll embed again.

Like this
Told ya, but didn't listen and were all dumb and desperate enough to vote for the fucker that threatened to put you all in camps. You made you fucking bed! Lie in it like everyone else! Remember, you all made the choice. Don't blame me and don't blame Biden/Harris.
 

Thaluikhain

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Told ya, but didn't listen and were all dumb and desperate enough to vote for the fucker that threatened to put you all in camps. You made you fucking bed! Lie in it like everyone else! Remember, you all made the choice. Don't blame me and don't blame Biden/Harris.
Erm, plenty of blame can be assigned to Biden and Harris et al. But yeah, actually voting for Trump? Some of the stories about people finding out that Trump didn't mean "except that person" with his policies...
 

BrawlMan

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Erm, plenty of blame can be assigned to Biden and Harris et al.
They're not entire blameless, but they tried getting shit done. I've heard the runabout on this a billion times already, and I am fucking sick of it.

But yeah, actually voting for Trump? Some of the stories about people finding out that Trump didn't mean "except that person" with his policies...
Which why they get no sympathies from me, when I and many other warned them of what would happen. That they will be on the chopping block or next on the totem pole sooner or later. Looks like Trump is going with sooner.
 

tippy2k2

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Erm, plenty of blame can be assigned to Biden and Harris et al. But yeah, actually voting for Trump? Some of the stories about people finding out that Trump didn't mean "except that person" with his policies...
I 1000% understand not voting for Harris cause they insisted that they didn't need us (or if I'm being real jerkish about it, they love Israel more than they love The United States) but voting for Trump instead because you imagined that he would not also be on his knees guzzling Israeli weiner is baffling...

EDIT: Like...seriously, can anyone point to even one sound bite or quote that would make them think Trump would be GOOD about Gaza? I guess if you grossly and incompetently interpret him saying "Finish the Job" as "He's going to bring Peace by brokering a deal!". That's the closest I've ever heard Trump say anything about Israel/Palestine...
 
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Thaluikhain

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I 1000% understand not voting for Harris cause they insisted that they didn't need us (or if I'm being real jerkish about it, they love Israel more than they love The United States) but voting for Trump instead because you imagined that he would not also be on his knees guzzling Israeli weiner is baffling...
Sure, but then voting for Trump in the belief that he'll make the US better, as some seem to believe, is baffling as it is. I mean, I people supporting him because he's their kind of evil, but thinking he's a great leader...don't get that at all.
 

meiam

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Sure, but then voting for Trump in the belief that he'll make the US better, as some seem to believe, is baffling as it is. I mean, I people supporting him because he's their kind of evil, but thinking he's a great leader...don't get that at all.
Tribalism, Trump is part of the tribe they belong too, and of course their tribe is good, so Trump is good. Everything bad said about him is a lie, because it would imply their tribe have bad people in it, which could mean that they themselves could be bad.
 
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