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meiam

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Tariff might be paused forever, who knows? Will SCOTUS say "actually Trump is god emperor and can do anything" or will they just leave it on read. Will congress fall in line and just rubber stamp the tariff? Find out next on "how bad can it get?"!
 
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Seanchaidh

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Hey now, you very clearly argued in the other thread that the moral culpability for a retaliation rests solely on the one doing the retaliating, not the one whose action is retaliated against. You even argued that moral actors should disregard the severity of any retaliation that may come against them and others.

So if Russia fires the nukes, zero moral culpability for that rests on anyone but Russia, and the possibility shouldn't enter any moral decision, surely.
putting Russia in a situation in which it must either do something atrocious or compromise the fundamental security of its people is worthy of condemnation on its own.

but thank you for confirming that you truly didn't understand the argument.
 

tstorm823

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A Medicaid funding cut is a Medicaid funding cut; the amount of money those states have to cover all services, for undocumented and others alike, goes down. The government can justify how it chose which states' funding to cut, but in those states, the funding from which all Medicaid services draw is still cut.
For better of for worse, that is not at all how Medicaid funding works. There's not a defined budget of money to spend. State's determine, within federal guidelines, who is qualified and what providers will be compensated for treating them. Then payment for that treatment in total, however much it may be, is split between the state and the federal government at defined ratios (Federal Medical Assistance Ratio) that already vary by state or territory and by group being covered. So if a group, in this case adults covered under the ACA Medicaid expansion, is covered at 90% by the federal government, that means that 90% of the cost is covered by the federal government and 10% by the states. Dropping it to 80% means it is now an 80:20 split. It is not unusual to have that vary by state, the normal ratios already are calculated relative to state incomes, states more capable of carrying a higher percentage already do.

But the important thing here is that Medicaid levels of care and enrollment aren't changed by this. What the law says is that states participating in Medicaid must keep their Medicaid plan within federal guidelines, and so long as they do, the federal government will bear minimum 50% of the cost of the program. If these states say "ok, our assistance ratio dropped, so we need to cut our Medicaid program", they can't actually really do that. Their plan has to stay within the federal guidelines, they can't undercut those guidelines. And if the same people are eligible and covered for the same things, its going to cost the same in total, just a higher percentage is going to be funded by the state portion rather than the federal. The total entitlement is unchanged. When people talk about cuts to Medicaid in a meaningful way, they are typically talking about reducing the entitlement, not just shifting the purse between different parts of government.
 

dreng3

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putting Russia in a situation in which it must either do something atrocious or compromise the fundamental security of its people is worthy of condemnation on its own.

but thank you for confirming that you truly didn't understand the argument.
putting Ukraine/NATO/Europe in a situation in which it must either do something atrocious or compromise the fundamental security of its people is worthy of condemnation on its own.

but thank you for confirming that you truly didn't understand the argument.
 

Thaluikhain

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Hades

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putting Russia in a situation in which it must either do something atrocious or compromise the fundamental security of its people is worthy of condemnation on its own.

but thank you for confirming that you truly didn't understand the argument.
can you explain how Ukraine being an independent country risks “the safety of the Russian people”? Why is an independent Ukraine such a gigantic risk that Putin simply has to conquer and ethnically cleanse the place?
 

Silvanus

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putting Russia in a situation in which it must either do something atrocious or compromise the fundamental security of its people is worthy of condemnation on its own.
Sure, the fundamental security of Russia is threatened by the existence of an independent Ukraine, even though Ukraine has never attacked Russia without Russia first attacking it. That's some dogshit, but we'll put that aside for now;

You didn't condemn those things on their own. Instead, you held others responsible for the retaliation that Russia may choose to invoke; you insinuated that the severity of Russia's possible retaliation should deter others from fighting Russia. Which shows how shallow those rule-utilitarian principles were.

but thank you for confirming that you truly didn't understand the argument.
I understood what you said at the time just fine, but you abandoned it the moment it validated resistance to a brand of Christofascist imperialism you happen to hold in esteem.
 

Silvanus

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For better of for worse, that is not at all how Medicaid funding works. There's not a defined budget of money to spend. State's determine, within federal guidelines, who is qualified and what providers will be compensated for treating them. Then payment for that treatment in total, however much it may be, is split between the state and the federal government at defined ratios (Federal Medical Assistance Ratio) that already vary by state or territory and by group being covered. So if a group, in this case adults covered under the ACA Medicaid expansion, is covered at 90% by the federal government, that means that 90% of the cost is covered by the federal government and 10% by the states. Dropping it to 80% means it is now an 80:20 split. It is not unusual to have that vary by state, the normal ratios already are calculated relative to state incomes, states more capable of carrying a higher percentage already do.

But the important thing here is that Medicaid levels of care and enrollment aren't changed by this. What the law says is that states participating in Medicaid must keep their Medicaid plan within federal guidelines, and so long as they do, the federal government will bear minimum 50% of the cost of the program. If these states say "ok, our assistance ratio dropped, so we need to cut our Medicaid program", they can't actually really do that. Their plan has to stay within the federal guidelines, they can't undercut those guidelines. And if the same people are eligible and covered for the same things, its going to cost the same in total, just a higher percentage is going to be funded by the state portion rather than the federal. The total entitlement is unchanged. When people talk about cuts to Medicaid in a meaningful way, they are typically talking about reducing the entitlement, not just shifting the purse between different parts of government.
I'm aware of all this. But classing this merely as a shift in ratio assumes that states can and will be able to merely make up the shortfall-- which you've already acknowledged is a massive amount of money.

And that 90 didn't become 80 for a specific, intentionally-targeted group, but for the state's Medicaid budget. There's no way of getting around the fact that the total federal Medicaid funding has been cut for these places.
 

tstorm823

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And that 90 didn't become 80 for a specific, intentionally-targeted group, but for the state's Medicaid budget. There's no way of getting around the fact that the total federal Medicaid funding has been cut for these places.
Most Medicaid funding is dramatically less than 90%. The overall repayment ratio is between 50% and 80% depending on state. Only specific groups, such as people covered under the ACA expansion, those between 100% and 138% of the poverty line, had that level of federal compensation.

The change we are discussing is titled " SEC. 44111. REDUCING EXPANSION FMAP FOR CERTAIN STATES PROVIDING PAYMENTS FOR HEALTH CARE FURNISHED TO CERTAIN INDIVIDUALS. " The reduction is to the federal burden for only those covered under the ACA Medicaid expansion in only states that have healthcare programs for undocumented migrants ("certain individuals"). The only world where anyone's Medicaid coverage is cut by this is the one where a state withdraws from the Medicaid Expansion in order to maintain its program for illegal immigrants. That isn't going to happen.
 

Silvanus

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Most Medicaid funding is dramatically less than 90%. The overall repayment ratio is between 50% and 80% depending on state. Only specific groups, such as people covered under the ACA expansion, those between 100% and 138% of the poverty line, had that level of federal compensation.

The change we are discussing is titled " SEC. 44111. REDUCING EXPANSION FMAP FOR CERTAIN STATES PROVIDING PAYMENTS FOR HEALTH CARE FURNISHED TO CERTAIN INDIVIDUALS. " The reduction is to the federal burden for only those covered under the ACA Medicaid expansion in only states that have healthcare programs for undocumented migrants ("certain individuals").
You've acknowledged here that those for whom the federal funding was cut are not those undocumented immigrants. You've corroborated what I was arguing, just with language making it sound otherwise.

And sure, you can argue that recipients won't be affected if the state just fulfils the shortfall. It's true that people will not lose coverage if Democratic states step in to provide what the federal government is cutting. That's doesn't mean they aren't cutting. It means others are picking up the slack.
 

Agema

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Sure, the fundamental security of Russia is threatened by the existence of an independent Ukraine, even though Ukraine has never attacked Russia without Russia first attacking it. That's some dogshit, but we'll put that aside for now;
I guess I'm waiting for a good explanation why Russia is allowed to invade its neighbours under some nebulous rationale of "fundamental security", but the fundamental security of all Russia's neighbours from Russia doesn't count for anything at all.
 
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Hades

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I guess I'm waiting for a good explanation why Russia is allowed to invade its neighbours under some nebulous rationale of "fundamental security", but the fundamental security of all Russia's neighbours from Russia doesn't count for anything at all.
Some would say the school of realism is that explanation. While its not directly stated many of the ideals of realism involving great powers and security does come with the implication smaller countries are just poker chips for the big boys who's concerns just matter less.
 

tstorm823

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You've acknowledged here that those for whom the federal funding was cut are not those undocumented immigrants. You've corroborated what I was arguing, just with language making it sound otherwise.
It could be no cut at all if those states drop their programs giving Medicaid equivalent coverage to migrants. I'm sure you see it as a compassionate program, offering care to refugees far from their homes, fleeing for their lives. But if there is any one thing we've learned with certainty from the current administration, it's that the overwhelming majority of migrants aren't refugees fleeing for their lives, they are economic migrants following economic incentive structures. Electing Trump doesn't lead to 95% fewer people fleeing for their lives, it changes the incentive structures. California offering free American healthcare to migrants is a carrot to draw in cheap labor, draining foreign populations to the detriment of their home countries and putting downward pressure on American wages, boosting the US economy to the almost exclusive benefit of the rich and powerful.
And sure, you can argue that recipients won't be affected if the state just fulfils the shortfall.
It's not an if. They are legally obligated to cover it, it is part of the terms by which every state participates in Medicaid in the first place. The federal government foots most of the bill, but states have to be providing a certain coverage to certain populations and they have to fund the remainder, or they're violating the terms of the program. California only has 3 legal options here: cut the migrant aid and keep the 90%, keep the migrant aid and fund the extra 10% themselves, or withdraw from the Medicaid expansion entirely. There is no "we lost 10% of our funding so we cut back Medicaid 10%". That isn't an option.
 

Silvanus

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Some would say the school of realism is that explanation. While its not directly stated many of the ideals of realism involving great powers and security does come with the implication smaller countries are just poker chips for the big boys who's concerns just matter less.
Calling it "realism" is already a bankrupt branding exercise. It's "realism" in the same sense that if I steal my neighbour's TV, I can then argue the "reality" is that I have the TV.

It's imperialism with window dressing and we should call it what it is.
 

Agema

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But if there is any one thing we've learned with certainty from the current administration, it's that the overwhelming majority of migrants aren't refugees fleeing for their lives, they are economic migrants following economic incentive structures.
One might note that economic migrants following economic incentive structures are ultimately contributing to the economic activity of the USA. They are also, even if illegally employed and "off the books", paying taxes - even if only things like sales tax or duties.

California offering free American healthcare to migrants is a carrot to draw in cheap labor, draining foreign populations to the detriment of their home countries and putting downward pressure on American wages, boosting the US economy to the almost exclusive benefit of the rich and powerful.
Do they, though?

If the salaries of the US rise, it becomes more expensive to produce goods and services in the USA. So that has two knock-on effects: firstly, companies are more likely to transfer production overseas (increasing unemployment), and/or goods and services become more expensive, thereby eroding any benefit of increased wages. Whole sectors of industry could even become uncompetitive - think particularly about sectors more dependent on cheap migrant labour like agriculture. Do you let these die (and the communities based around them), or prop them up with subsidies?

Next, are you even going to get increased wages? I've got to point out here that increased wages isn't just reducing supply to give the provider more power in demand. That could for instance actually motivate more automation - thus still ending up with low wages, or unemployment. I suspect if you want higher wages, you can't just hope the invisible hand of the market will provide: you actually need to empower workers to fight for it or government to just enforce it.

The economy is extremely complex. I think people like to make up simple comments like "immigration reduces your salary" except a) these are often superficial analyses that may not be true and b) the knock on effects involve a whole series of costs and benefits... and the costs may in fact be higher.

Finally, it is bewildering to read a lot of right wingers talk complain about "boosting the US economy to the almost exclusive benefit of the rich and powerful". There are a whole load of tools we could readily employ to do something about that effectively, why don't you ever act on them? There's only one reason the right spurns every single one of them except anti-immigration, and that reason is dishonesty. The right couldn't give a monkey's about inequality, but it does make for a useful way to try to trick people into opposing immigration.
 
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Silvanus

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It could be no cut at all if those states drop their programs giving Medicaid equivalent coverage to migrants. I'm sure you see it as a compassionate program, offering care to refugees far from their homes, fleeing for their lives. But if there is any one thing we've learned with certainty from the current administration, it's that the overwhelming majority of migrants aren't refugees fleeing for their lives, they are economic migrants following economic incentive structures. Electing Trump doesn't lead to 95% fewer people fleeing for their lives, it changes the incentive structures. California offering free American healthcare to migrants is a carrot to draw in cheap labor, draining foreign populations to the detriment of their home countries and putting downward pressure on American wages, boosting the US economy to the almost exclusive benefit of the rich and powerful.
I really have zero interest in your justifications for why you think it's fine to slash medicaid. The gov said the program wouldn't be touched; it was cut severely, and I'm waiting for acknowledgement.

It's not an if. They are legally obligated to cover it, it is part of the terms by which every state participates in Medicaid in the first place. The federal government foots most of the bill, but states have to be providing a certain coverage to certain populations and they have to fund the remainder, or they're violating the terms of the program. California only has 3 legal options here: cut the migrant aid and keep the 90%, keep the migrant aid and fund the extra 10% themselves, or withdraw from the Medicaid expansion entirely. There is no "we lost 10% of our funding so we cut back Medicaid 10%". That isn't an option.
I know. You're arguing against a suggestion I'm not making.

You are still arguing that if someone else fulfils the shortfall, then there wasn't a cut; like if someone steals my phone, and an insurance company is obligated to pay for a replacement, then my phone somehow wasn't taken and the thief doesn't exist.