US 2024 Presidential Election

[BrawlMan]

Sucks to be biatch Jones.

​

 

[Agema]

A) I didn't say Meiam said that Hegseth thought it was the Bible. I was acknowledging an idea that is being passed around in general.

You're trying to make a criticism that is not justified by the comment you are citing. You call it a "general" idea, like some mass myth, but where's the evidence supporting it?

B) Meiam didn't say it was adapted via Pulp Fiction, but rather said "quoted Pulp Fiction", which is incorrect. I provided more and more accurate information.

There is a saying "lies, damn lies and statistics". Part of the meaning of this is that you can mislead people with the truth, when it's deployed a certain way.

Hegseth read a prayer made up by some squaddies that is obviously and directly based on a Pulp Fiction quotation, and that's a very deep truth. For Hegseth to say it's based on The Book of Ezekiel is in contrast a much more superficial truth. In that sense, Meiam's imprecise description manages to be closer to the core truth than your "more accurate" apologism for Hegseth.

Hegseth was passing off movie lines as Biblical passages to pompously posture as a holy warrior. Unwittingly or not, he's full of shit and can be held to account. Maybe you should hold Trump and his team to the same standards of pedantry you're in this forum demanding of the media and everyone else.

 

[tstorm823]

Hegseth was passing off movie lines as Biblical passages to pompously posture as a holy warrior.

The man said upfront that he was quoting from the search and rescue team, not the Bible. Give it a rest.

 

[Agema]

Showing is the point. At no point under any recent administration was "just show up and they'll let you stay" the legal standard. There are so many people now with deportation orders against them because they were making asylum claims that never had a chance to pass under the belief they'd just be left in the country anyways. Showing that isn't the case deters more people from trying. It's not stupid or cruel, if you don't enforce the law people won't even try to follow it.

Okay, so if you don't enforce the law, people won't try to follow it. So let me ask you - what's the conviction rate for burglary? Rape? Assault? Police corruption? Any of these could have merited a massive budget and policing surge. Hell, Donald Trump, Nancy Pelosi, Bob Menendez and Clarence Thomas can abuse high office to stuff their pockets, and only one of them has failed to get away with it. By comparison to a whole load of crimes, the USA's rate at catching illegal immigrants is really good. Never mind that, but Americans furious darker-skinned people sneak across the border to work for a living elected to the presidency a convicted felon and rapist.

So you're just going to have to forgive me for laughing at the whole "enforcing the law" bogus moral bullshit.

Next, as has been pointed out plenty, a lot of these people being aggressively deported were given leave to stay: they weren't in the country illegally, until the government abruptly cut their legal legs from under them. This also rather makes a mockery of the claim that it's "enforcing the law". Not just government at its normal worst - blunt, ham-fisted, uncaring - but cruel. That's what it was to make a huge show about chucking people into the prisons of dodgy Central American states and laughing about it. Claims of gang membership that were at best spurious and at worst absurd. Deliberately flouting judges. This isn't law, this is spectacle. Cruelty for the pleasure of xenophobes - and rampaging through Democratic states and cities the partisan icing on the bigoted cake. But at least you admit that "showing is the point" of this.

 

[Agema]

The man said upfront that he was quoting from the search and rescue team...

... a prayer "meant to reflect Ezekiel 25:17", but which more accurately reflects what a fictional hitman says before he shoots his victims in Pulp Fiction.

Which, you have to admit, is just quite funny. As a US Secretary of Defence, Hegseth makes a great Fox News presenter.

 

[Agema]

What exactly were the actions that Trump took during his first term that convinced you that he's a doer? His entire first term was literally nothing but half-assed promises. The only thing he actually accomplished was passing a tax cut for the rich. What policies did he put in place that you liked? What legislation did he get passed?

But this is perhaps the essence of Trump. It doesn't matter that Trump was actually bad at getting anything done. He just spoke and acted like he got things done.

We cannot underestimate how powerful that is. People are more likely to believe those who act like they know irrespective of whether they know. Every con artist knows that displaying confidence is a great way to win the confidence of the target - and Trump is nothing if not a con artist.

It's similar with the Biden/Trump comparison. Biden dozily mumbled and dribbled and doddered, and he was run out of town. Trump rambled and burbled and stumbled, just as prone to incoherence and gibberish, but his facade of vigour was enough to trick people into overlooking it.

 

[FakeSympathy]

Last time I am gonna post regarding my 2024 vote for Trump

Again, I'd like to reiterate that I am not looking for any sympathy (maybe some FakeSympathy), and deeply regret my choice.

A lot of you have been asking me what about Trump that made me vote for him again, what was the exact thing that he did in 2016-2020 presidency that I found favorable.

I FALSELY believed the following actions were somewhat commendable:

• He was the first US official to meet up with Kim Jeong-Un in a very long time; I mean things always have been pretty tense in the two countries, but him having the guts to actually meet up with Kim was kinda impressive
• He had the courage to say COVID-19 did in fact start in China, when the media seem to skim over this fact and just pin it as a racism (I guess they were technically right on that?)
  • Vaccine deployment was pretty quick, although AT THE TIME, I thought it could've been faster had it not been for those anti-vaxers, and anyone who simply wanted to piss him off while risking public safety
• I also thought the "America First" energy initivative was pretty smart idea

I guess I was trying to focus on what I subjectively thought were good achievements, and did not see the fact that how all the terrible stuff he had done was outweighing the goods

I am obviously not in support of Trump anymore, kinda like Tucker Carlson. And like Mr. Carlson, I feel sorry for ever supporting Trump in any shape for form. (not sure if his apology was geniune, though)

While there are many ways for people to show the disapproval, the best thing FOR ME would be to keep bash on the orange man like you guys, and definitely voting for the Democrats in 2028 (they don't seem too bad now).

That's pretty much it from me regarding my vote; I will probably not be too active on this thread going forward, or post frequently bashing on Trump

 

[Phoenixmgs]

• He had the courage to say COVID-19 did in fact start in China, when the media seem to skim over this fact and just pin it as a racism (I guess they were technically right on that?)
  • Vaccine deployment was pretty quick, although AT THE TIME, I thought it could've been faster had it not been for those anti-vaxers, and anyone who simply wanted to piss him off while risking public safety

He was also right about masking and keeping schools open. Also, vaccine deployment was delayed for no reason by democrats so that it wasn't ready by the election.

 

[tstorm823]

Okay, so if you don't enforce the law, people won't try to follow it. So let me ask you - what's the conviction rate for burglary? Rape? Assault? Police corruption? Any of these could have merited a massive budget and policing surge.

A) The police forces that investigate those things collectively are an order of magnitude higher budget than ICE to begin with.
B) They did get a policing surge in multiple major cities, most notably DC, and you likely opposed it.

Next, as has been pointed out plenty, a lot of these people being aggressively deported were given leave to stay: they weren't in the country illegally, until the government abruptly cut their legal legs from under them.

"Abruptly" is 90-days notice minimum, with the exception of a few people suspected of gang membership, almost none of whom weren't already detained or imprisoned.

Which, you have to admit, is just quite funny. As a US Secretary of Defence, Hegseth makes a great Fox News presenter.

Kinda? Like, from the perspectives of the regular soldiers that instigated it, they probably got a laugh that the guy in charge semi-quoted Pulp Fiction for them in a service. It's funny in the sense that it probably gave a bunch of military bros a bit of joy hearing it. Either Hegseth knew it was Pulp Fiction, declined to specifically name the movie, and played along with it, or he didn't know it was Pulp Fiction and thought it was just an over-the-top joke prayer put together by a bunch of the guys, either way he's reciting it for them to have a laugh.

But that's not why you think it's funny.

 

[Trunkage]

I didn't think it could get worse. I mean the whole "I will build a wall between the US and Mexico and Mexico will pay for it" thing did start IIRC, but it never got completed. I just figured Trump was one of those politicians who only do half-ass jobs on what they promised to do. I genuinely thought he wasn't gonna follow through with the ICE thing on his 2nd term.

I guess I learned a few things, looking back:

1. I wasn't the only one who voted for Trump, and there are many people like me who were kinda force to choose between a rock and a hard place. Although I do feel I might've regretted my decision had Kamala Harris won. I shouldn't feel too bad about my choice since everyone has one or two terrible decisions that they will regret for the rest of their lives
   1. On a side note, due to the electoral college my vote probably didn't mean much in my State; It was pretty much a democrat state during the election
2. ....Maybe I should give democrats another chance. I have plenty of bone to pick with Obama, but I think he did a pretty good job; there was also JFK, who again didn't always make the right decisions, but he also did plenty of good things
3. IMHO, we need more younger candidates. I feel both Biden and Trump are stuck in their outdated, delusional, and honestly kinda senile ideologies.

I mean, Trump does do everything half-assed. Thats why most of his policies get knocked down by the courts. This ICE raids is literal half assing. You could deport a lot of people legally. He just does not want to put the effort in
1. A lot of Trump voters just want the whole system to burn down. Another large chunk are Christian Nationalist who will get rid of anything non-Protestant. They love what he is doing. You are way better than them
2. You would. Harris had not really great policies and would have continued many of Biden's mistake. You just would not regret as much as now
3. YES.

 

[Trunkage]

He was also right about masking and keeping schools open. Also, vaccine deployment was delayed for no reason by democrats so that it wasn't ready by the election.

The vaccine deployment that saves about half a million US citizens a year....

Yes, we all know how genocidal you are to other citizens in your country

 

[Trunkage]

• He had the courage to say COVID-19 did in fact start in China, when the media seem to skim over this fact and just pin it as a racism (I guess they were technically right on that?)
  • Vaccine deployment was pretty quick, although AT THE TIME, I thought it could've been faster had it not been for those anti-vaxers, and anyone who simply wanted to piss him off while risking public safety

The liberal media said that Covid came from China. They said it did not come from the Chinese government. This is where Trump disagreed. I also give a qualified pass to all involved until about April 2020 as there was not enough info

The CDC and the equivlants in many countries, including China and my own are still tracing down the source of Covid

They have found a string of deaths up to 6 months before the wet market mass infection. It seems to be in the countyside and the wet market just made it viral (pardon the pun). The deaths were happening weekly but since there isnt much data on villagers in China, it was originally thought to be a flu. Nothing stood out until mass infection

I dont blame liberal media for not reporting this. Blaming Covid on eating bats is a bad look for them but the data was not there to support it back them.

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

But this is perhaps the essence of Trump. It doesn't matter that Trump was actually bad at getting anything done. He just spoke and acted like he got things done.

We cannot underestimate how powerful that is. People are more likely to believe those who act like they know irrespective of whether they know. Every con artist knows that displaying confidence is a great way to win the confidence of the target - and Trump is nothing if not a con artist.

It's similar with the Biden/Trump comparison. Biden dozily mumbled and dribbled and doddered, and he was run out of town. Trump rambled and burbled and stumbled, just as prone to incoherence and gibberish, but his facade of vigour was enough to trick people into overlooking it.

Yes, I understand all that. I wanted an answer specifically from FakeSympathy on what convinced him, not a general answer on how Trump is a conman.

 

[Agema]

"Abruptly" is 90-days notice minimum, with the exception of a few people suspected of gang membership, almost none of whom weren't already detained or imprisoned.

I'm not really interested in re-treading this because you don't get the point.

It's not about the technicalities. It's about the overall attitude; that the Trump administration's approach to immigrants is plainly malevolent, lacking fairness and justice (hence all the court actions), insensible to the difficulties and suffering it imposes on many thousands of people who are essentially being treated as second-class humans. It's not 90 days, it's the basic cost, human and financial, to those people of just uprooting them and casting them out to satisfy prejudice and hatred.

And you're all in on that programme.

But that's not why you think it's funny.

I don't disagree it's potentially a hoot for the soldiers. But I'm not in on that joke, so for me funny is puncturing the pomposity of sanctimonious pricks like Pete Hegseth.

 

[tstorm823]

it's the basic cost, human and financial, to those people of just uprooting them and casting them out to satisfy prejudice and hatred.

Undocumented migrants in the US have almost no rights, they can't legally work and are thus left to the whims of often exploitative and criminal enterprises. They don't have access to the benefits of a citizen, they don't have housing assistance, they won't have medical insurance (unless they pay for that fully themselves), and many of them spend all the money they had just to get across the border believing life will just be better here, and that isn't true. You neglect the costs, human and financial, of encouraging people to come somewhere they're not really free and then trapping them here.

I don't disagree it's potentially a hoot for the soldiers. But I'm not in on that joke, so for me funny is puncturing the pomposity of sanctimonious pricks like Pete Hegseth.

The joke that you aren't in on is the evidence that he was not being pompous or sanctimonious in the first place. You're rejecting reality for whatever feeds your resentment.

 

[Chimpzy]

Trump’s team has created a ‘naughty and nice’ list to punish NATO allies

The president has slammed alliance members for not doing more to support the U.S. war in Iran

www.independent.co.uk

So I'm guessing that's gonna be a nice list of one.

 

[Hades]

Trump’s team has created a ‘naughty and nice’ list to punish NATO allies

The president has slammed alliance members for not doing more to support the U.S. war in Iran

www.independent.co.uk

So I'm guessing that's gonna be a nice list of one.

Of course the naughtiest NATO member is the treasonous one where the leadership are a bunch of subhumans openly drooling at the idea of stealing land from another member by force.

Especially noteworthy is that the nation the treasonous filth wants to rob is one of those model allies they claim to want. Denmark is a model ally and as thanks the scum wants to steal their lands

 

[Silvanus]

"Abruptly" is 90-days notice minimum, with the exception of a few people suspected of gang membership, almost none of whom weren't already detained or imprisoned.

You're still repeating this outright falsehood.

* Federal court established that the required notice was not given. In some cases it was less than 24 hours, and the individuals were not informed.

* "Gang membership" was "suspected" on the basis of things like appearing in photographs near someone else suspected, or innocuous tattoos. No guilt was established to any legal standard. The government nonetheless stated their guilt as established truth in media appearances.

* Very few were previously imprisoned. And plenty were not 'detained', but had been paroled into the country, or given explicit legal right to be there. Others were 'detained' only in that they were at ports of entry which they had legally arrived at; they had not been detained for any broken rule.

You are defending the indefinite imprisonment and torture of people who followed every rule and had been found guilty of nothing whatsoever. That's the performative cruelty to which Agema is referring.

 

[Phoenixmgs]

The vaccine deployment that saves about half a million US citizens a year....

Yes, we all know how genocidal you are to other citizens in your country

What are you talking about? The democrats delayed the covid vaccine for political reasons, that cost thousands of lives.

 

[Trunkage]

What are you talking about? The democrats delayed the covid vaccine for political reasons, that cost thousands of lives.

The Dems.... who did what you asked them to do?