The "Cancellation" of J.K. Rowling

[Kae]

As someone that has never really been a Harry Potter fan, to the point of not having bothered to watch the films or read the books, I'm probably not particularly invested in the issue as it's not really something I treasure, like many others, but I can say that it's disappointing to see someone with such a massive audience use her platform to put down an already unfairly put down group of people.

And all you people claiming that they need to have an ID that proves they're really trans, you're making no sense, we may as well start monitoring all men, make sure they don't move through the streets without anyone knowing because they might all be rapists, of course what I'm proposing is absolutely insane but you know men are statistically more likely to sexually abuse someone than a trans-woman, yet people still come up with these frankly pathetic arguments that really only confirm their prejudice and insecurities, it's real sad, one would think that in hard times like ours people would be seeking unity and peace but it seems like we'd rather make it worse by drawing arbitrary lines on the sand.

 

[PsychedelicDiamond]

I wonder what her intention here is. I mean, why does a person who could spend the rest of her life just taking it easy and coasting on her success suddenly have an urge to pick on a minority she absolutely never has to interact with. I mean, is this what rich people do when they get bored? Like, if I was her, and I started to inexplicably be annoyed at trans people, I'd just shrug, buy another Ferrari, or something, and forget about it. Why pick that hill to die on?

 

[SupahEwok]

So far as ID's go, the obvious answer isn't a separate bathroom pass. Just have a single ID that contains all relevant personal information, something which driver's licenses already mostly serve as (but I'd like to see them folded into the universal ID as well).

While I see trans information in the universal ID as an inevitability, it's still pretty cyberpunky dystopian to need a card swap to get into a bathroom. Just have a camera in a corner that can view the "common" area of the bathroom where genitals will not be seen, to catch any abuse, and call it a day.

 

[Specter Von Baren]

I wonder what her intention here is. I mean, why does a person who could spend the rest of her life just taking it easy and coasting on her success suddenly have an urge to pick on a minority she absolutely never has to interact with. I mean, is this what rich people do when they get bored? Like, if I was her, and I started to inexplicably be annoyed at trans people, I'd just shrug, buy another Ferrari, or something, and forget about it. Why pick that hill to die on?

It's bizarre to me how much people complain about the rich having money and not seemingly caring about anyone or anything aside from money and material possessions yet also seem to expect they should do it.

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

I wonder what her intention here is. I mean, why does a person who could spend the rest of her life just taking it easy and coasting on her success suddenly have an urge to pick on a minority she absolutely never has to interact with. I mean, is this what rich people do when they get bored? Like, if I was her, and I started to inexplicably be annoyed at trans people, I'd just shrug, buy another Ferrari, or something, and forget about it. Why pick that hill to die on?

She's trying to use her position to do what she believes is good.

Even if it's somewhat misguided.

Also yes plenty of rich people do get bored and just start playing politics.

So far as ID's go, the obvious answer isn't a separate bathroom pass. Just have a single ID that contains all relevant personal information, something which driver's licenses already mostly serve as (but I'd like to see them folded into the universal ID as well).

While I see trans information in the universal ID as an inevitability, it's still pretty cyberpunky dystopian to need a card swap to get into a bathroom. Just have a camera in a corner that can view the "common" area of the bathroom where genitals will not be seen, to catch any abuse, and call it a day.

I doubt anyone has issues with people who keep to their own or are "passing" as such. It's just those now claiming to be Trans who can't pass and aren't even trying where the problem comes in.

 

[Agema]

I wonder what her intention here is. I mean, why does a person who could spend the rest of her life just taking it easy and coasting on her success suddenly have an urge to pick on a minority she absolutely never has to interact with.

Rich people can care about things, too. At least she's not one of them that's funding right-wing think tanks and alt-right grassroots movements.

Why pick that hill to die on?

Evidently because she cares a lot about it. By her own justification, as far as I can tell she feels strongly about it as a doemstic abuse survivor worried about abusive men entering women's spaces by pretending to be trans women.

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

Yes, but the Verma group, in the process of defending their work, reference things like differences in brain structure or grey/white volume in defence of their own argument of male/female differences. I don't think you can cite their work and then disclude factors that they believe relevant. I would state again, reliance on single papers is a deeply unsafe way to assess science, given that it can pretty much be guaranteed any paper will have shortcomings in methodology, analysis, or other factors, and Ingalhalikar et al (2014) is no exception. There is plenty of criticism which is important to be aware of.

I'm aware of a fair bit of the criticism however a lot of it isn't based on that much also they may have incorrectly reference matter distributions in their defence but their main research was only on synaptic connections.

From a scientific perspective, this criticism includes a lack of reference for how much difference there is compared to similarity between sexes, how much overlap there is between male and female sets, and causal link to behavioural differences; this has then led to scientific ethical criticisms that the claims of the authors far outstripped the ability of the work to support, which is particularly unfortunate for a study with significant societal implications.

Well the behavioural differences are kind of already established and I'd assume there is evidence showing certain areas being in use in certain tasks.

Women and men necessarily evolved at exactly the same time and pace, because women cannot have procreated without men. Also, brain size is generally related to body size, and there is no intraspecies correlation between brain size and cognitive capabilities.

I mean this in so far was what we consider more modern understanding of man and woman.

Genetics Suggest Modern Female Came First

abcnews.go.com

That's just horses for courses, not that a horse is inherently better. The technique is relevant to the data to be acquired.

I know Dr Verma's group used something different to standard MRI.

Not really relevant per se.

It is to the extent as she was using a different technique so would have to gather her own data

Don't worry, I'm a neuroscientist. I'm pretty familiar with many aspects of brain lobe function, neuronal signalling and neuroimaging already.

phew. I thought I'd mention it because I've argued with some people before with varying levels of knowledge and familiarity with the subject as such

 

[Trunkage]

Yes. It would be like your driver's license. You keep it in your wallet and you carry it everywhere you go. It's your "Bathroom identification card", that proves your gender. It either says "male" or "female". You're assigned one by the government at birth, and you provide a doctor's note and you get a new card if you want to switch genders. It would have a magnetic strip and you swipe it to gain access to a bathroom or locker room.

So, everyone gets a card?

You mean about people spouting off the Pizzagate conspiracy? Not much, from a legal standpoint. Unless someone called for imminent lawless action.

You mean the one with Jeff Epstein? I don't know.

Well, Fake News previals, I guess

 

[Kwak]

Whilst I think this is a sensible and obvious solution, I feel sorry for women in a way because an alarming number of men appear to be fucking troglodytes who piss all over the toilet seat and often also the floor (which is pretty astonishing given they have something to aim with), and decline to clean up after themselves.

Wall-mounted 'female-urinals' redesigned slightly for both sexes would solve that.

For standing vs squatting you could have a recess in the floor to stand in so men's junk would be at a height less conducive to overspill.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_urinal

Berlin's new toilets: Would you use a women's urinal?

Berlin seeks gender equality for public toilets as it seeks to redevelop its municipal "pissoirs".

www.bbc.com

No doubt an elegant solution will be found by some innovative civil-engineer that won't require DNA testing to take a piss.
Unless you're really invested in bringing on the corporate dystopia cyberpunk future.

 

[Houseman]

So, everyone gets a card?

Yep.

 

[Agema]

I'm aware of a fair bit of the criticism however a lot of it isn't based on that much also they may have incorrectly reference matter distributions in their defence but their main research was only on synaptic connections.

Yes, but scientific work doesn't work in isolation. They contextualised it in the frame of differences between men and women, and drew on other studies identifying potential differences between men and women that used different techniques and looked at different aspects of brain structure and function.

For instance, their study shows what looks like huge differences between male and female brains. But what if those highlighted connections are 0.0000001% of brain connections. Maybe they're actually too trivial to matter. Secondly, what information are they carrying? Imagine you head out of a city on Road A or Road B. Two totally different roads, but what if they end up in the same destination, it's just they take different routes? What if those connections are different, but they turn out not to relate to observed behavioural differences?

In short, I'm sure Ingalhalikar et al. found something. It's just there really is no adequate link from that to behavioural differences. But that link is absolutely and utterly the key question to answer.

Well the behavioural differences are kind of already established and I'd assume there is evidence showing certain areas being in use in certain tasks.

Established by what though? Experience drives brain development. Two people may have different patterns of brain connections, but that may have been driven at least in part by postnatal development ("nurture"); it may therefore be that differences in brains between sexes may derive at least in part by different ways that boys and girls are brought up.

I mean this in so far was what we consider more modern understanding of man and woman.

Genetics Suggest Modern Female Came First

abcnews.go.com

What that report is telling us about is a sort of theoretical genetic ancestor. Not an actual real-life, living ancestor, but a set of genes from which all modern day genes are descended from. That it is more recent than the oldest female doesn't mean men weren't reproducing and adapting prior to that, but is due to other causes (such as a lower proportion of men reproducing than women, like with polygamy).

I know Dr Verma's group used something different to standard MRI.

Diffusion tensor imaging (DTI), I think. I'm not familiar with it in detail, but I think it's used to map axon bundles because it's specialised to recognise certain types of fluid properties associated with axon bundles, which conventional MRI won't pick up. However, it's not necessarily the best thing to use if the intent is to look at something other than axon bundles.

 

[Specter Von Baren]

Yep.

I really don't think this is the right direction to take this. As Agema pointed out to me, there's some bad optics for this and it does bring us closer to big brother watching us. *sigh* It was a dumb idea on my part, I did what I hate seeing others do which was get ahead of myself and not think fully through things.

 

[Tireseas]

I really don't think this is the right direction to take this. As Agema pointed out to me, there's some bad optics for this and it does bring us closer to big brother watching us. *sigh* It was a dumb idea on my part, I did what I hate seeing others do which was get ahead of myself and not think fully through things.

Not to mention the unfortunate precedent of having specific identification methods for singling out persecuted minorities... And yes, that's a Nazi reference and, given the level of violence that is experienced by trans and gender-non-conforming people in general, is not a unreasonable leap.

Either way, for now, it appears that it's not likely safe for me to travel to the UK until they at least sort this mess out...

 

[Silvanus]

Talk of biometric data on an ID card required to take a piss puts me in mind of using a sledgehammer to crack a nut.


Gender is already recorded by the government. Some governments have implemented programmes that allow you to change the recorded gender. There is little-to-no fraud of that system in those countries. Because if somebody was planning to access a bathroom in order to abuse somebody, going through a fraudulent legal change of recognised gender is not the avenue they would realistically take. They would just walk in when it's a bit quiet.

If we want to address the problem of unlocked bathrooms letting men into women's bathrooms to abuse women, then that's quite separate from the trans issue, because men are patently not going through the gender recognition process to gain that access.

Tying the trans issue to the abuse issue is precisely the reason Rowling's essay was poorly conceived and poorly received: sexual minorities are tired of being seen (baselessly) as hazards or dangers, or (just as baselessly) as inviting other dangers in.

 

[Baffle]

Right! Everyone wears catheters from now on! Convert all the public toilets into micro-flats for millennials of zoomers, or whoever we're shitting on now.

 

[Aegix Drakan]

I'm honestly really, REALLY infuriated by the whole thing and how she used some genuinely dangerous anti-trans tropes ("Strange men just pretending, so they can go into our bathrooms!"), while also more or less saying "I have friends who are trans! I met trans kids and they're adorabu, so clearly I'm not a bigot!"...

It also super SUPER sucks that assholes elsewhere have started quoting her essay to better attack trans people.

On the other hand, I think I understand WHY she has this stance and yet genuinely believes she's not bigoted.

Given she has some traumatic stuff in her background, she very likely has a legit phobia of "strange men invading women's spaces, ready to do harm!". Which, unfortunately, manifests in a fear that "the bad, not-real trans pretenders" will do just that. And given that it's a phobia she has, she probably doesn't even realize that this trope of "men in dresses eager for this legislation so they can go sneaking into bathrooms" is BS and also legitimately dangerous for trans people, as it's often used to justify violence against them.

So....Yeah.

I'm decidedly against her statements, and I'm upset she's a bigot, but I do understand how she got to that toxic worldview. ...Which doesn't make me feel any better about it.

 

[Specter Von Baren]

I'm honestly really, REALLY infuriated by the whole thing and how she used some genuinely dangerous anti-trans tropes ("Strange men just pretending, so they can go into our bathrooms!"), while also more or less saying "I have friends who are trans! I met trans kids and they're adorabu, so clearly I'm not a bigot!"...

It also super SUPER sucks that assholes elsewhere have started quoting her essay to better attack trans people.

On the other hand, I think I understand WHY she has this stance and yet genuinely believes she's not bigoted.

Given she has some traumatic stuff in her background, she very likely has a legit phobia of "strange men invading women's spaces, ready to do harm!". Which, unfortunately, manifests in a fear that "the bad, not-real trans pretenders" will do just that. And given that it's a phobia she has, she probably doesn't even realize that this trope of "men in dresses eager for this legislation so they can go sneaking into bathrooms" is BS and also legitimately dangerous for trans people, as it's often used to justify violence against them.

So....Yeah.

I'm decidedly against her statements, and I'm upset she's a bigot, but I do understand how she got to that toxic worldview. ...Which doesn't make me feel any better about it.

Pot meet the kettle...

 

[lil devils x]

Wall-mounted 'female-urinals' redesigned slightly for both sexes would solve that.

For standing vs squatting you could have a recess in the floor to stand in so men's junk would be at a height less conducive to overspill.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_urinal

Berlin's new toilets: Would you use a women's urinal?

Berlin seeks gender equality for public toilets as it seeks to redevelop its municipal "pissoirs".

www.bbc.com

No doubt an elegant solution will be found by some innovative civil-engineer that won't require DNA testing to take a piss.
Unless you're really invested in bringing on the corporate dystopia cyberpunk future.

UGH those are not designed to be used by women. We would have to take our panties and pants entirely off in order to use them. If wearing a catsuit or leotard, we would have to get completely naked.
1) When women pee, it goes down and not into a single stream like men, if we just pulled our pants down, the pants themselves prevent you from spreading your legs farther, thus the pee will get on our panties, pants, and legs. Even when trying to squat and pee into a bowl, that is put all the way against the skin, some of the pee would spray out.. that is just how it works for women. Exactly where women are positioned can be slightly different, as the shape of our Labias widely vary and yes that means the way pee on each woman may come out in slightly a different direction. Some women can make it spray forward, and not necessarily every time they go, however, some others just spray out like a shower head in different directions.
2)Pulling panties and pants down further would still just make them touch the floor and get into whatever gross stuff fell out of someone else's pants. Even if down by the floor, they would STILL get pee on them. Girls do not have a shaft to hold on to in order to control where the Pee goes. The little women do have to hold on to would mean we get pee all over our hands as well, so then we would get it on our clothes when we go to pull them back up other wise we would be expected to walk to the sink with pee on our hands across the room with our panties around our ankles. I do not think this was very well thought out.
3) EVEN a woman only wearing a dress with no panties, we would still have to pull the skirt up high and hold it while peeing in order to use those terribly designed toilets and not get pee on our skirt, even then it would STILL drip down our legs and have to be washed off quickly in order to not have it drip everywhere.

 

[lil devils x]

I'm honestly really, REALLY infuriated by the whole thing and how she used some genuinely dangerous anti-trans tropes ("Strange men just pretending, so they can go into our bathrooms!"), while also more or less saying "I have friends who are trans! I met trans kids and they're adorabu, so clearly I'm not a bigot!"...

It also super SUPER sucks that assholes elsewhere have started quoting her essay to better attack trans people.

On the other hand, I think I understand WHY she has this stance and yet genuinely believes she's not bigoted.

Given she has some traumatic stuff in her background, she very likely has a legit phobia of "strange men invading women's spaces, ready to do harm!". Which, unfortunately, manifests in a fear that "the bad, not-real trans pretenders" will do just that. And given that it's a phobia she has, she probably doesn't even realize that this trope of "men in dresses eager for this legislation so they can go sneaking into bathrooms" is BS and also legitimately dangerous for trans people, as it's often used to justify violence against them.

So....Yeah.

I'm decidedly against her statements, and I'm upset she's a bigot, but I do understand how she got to that toxic worldview. ...Which doesn't make me feel any better about it.

We had football players dress up as girls at my school every year (Makeup, wigs, stuffed bras dresses and all) and come into our bathroom locker room while we were changing to chase us around trying to kiss us and harass us. How do we prevent that from happening while also protecting trans rights? How can we legally stop the actual guys from coming in to "peep" , kiss , chase and harass the girls ( which dressing up and doing that was a " tradition" of sorts that the jocks did at our school every year) and have them tossed while ALSO protecting Trans rights? I HAVE reported males in the bathroom, and had the school cop forcibly remove them. It had nothing to do with "trans" however, One guy was following his ex girlfriend he regularly violently abused into the restroom and was trying to talk to her while she was locked in to a stall trying to escape him, the others were the football jocks doing their harassment thing.. I want to know what protections we can have in place that will protect women, including Transwomen AND make sure we can still toss these jerks? It isn't a trope because it isn't just " fear" they will do this, THEY ALREADY DO THIS, and our ability to have them removed when they do is important to being able to ensure our privacy and safety, so this issue is an issue that IS important to women to ensure our privacy and safety in our personal spaces. We have to be able to remove predators while ALSO protecting actual Transwomen. Women being raped and attacked in bathrooms by predatory men due to the privacy it provides is already serious issue, not just cisgendered women, but Transwomen as well, so we have to have some means to provide both protection, but I am not seeing any easy answers on this as of yet.

As a girl, I too, along with millions of other girls, was taught from a young age, that if there is a man in the bathroom, do not stay in there, run away and get help, if they are blocking my path, to scream as loud as I can and try to put obstacles between us. We are taught this because of how many of us have been raped, abused, attacked and even killed by men. I was raped as a kid by an adult male. My sister was raped, my best friend, my cousin, even my own grandmother was raped. I grew up knowing this is what can happen to us. I knew so many other girls who this is true for as well. That is why we have to have "escape plans" " rape whistles" and a " buddy system" because when we do not this is what happens to us. I want to see Transwomen protected as well, they are targeted just the same. A female being afraid of seeing a man in the bathroom isn't " Transphobic" it is just what we have been taught so that we can survive. It would be great if this wasn't the world we live in, but sadly it is. We need to be able to keep everyone safe, and currently we still fail miserably at it.

 

[Aegix Drakan]

We had football players dress up as girls at my school every year (Makeup, wigs, stuffed bras dresses and all) and come into our bathroom locker room while we were changing to chase us around trying to kiss us and harass us. How do we prevent that from happening while also protecting trans rights? How can we legally stop the actual guys from coming in to "peep" , kiss , chase and harass the girls ( which dressing up and doing that was a " tradition" of sorts that the jocks did at our school every year) and have them tossed while ALSO protecting Trans rights? I HAVE reported males in the bathroom, and had the school cop forcibly remove them. It had nothing to do with "trans" however, One guy was following his ex girlfriend he regularly violently abused into the restroom and was trying to talk to her while she was locked in to a stall trying to escape him, the others were the football jocks doing their harassment thing.. I want to know what protections we can have in place that will protect women, including Transwomen AND make sure we can still toss these jerks? It isn't a trope because it isn't just " fear" they will do this, THEY ALREADY DO THIS, and our ability to have them removed when they do is important to being able to ensure our privacy and safety, so this issue is an issue that IS important to women to ensure our privacy and safety in our personal spaces. We have to be able to remove predators while ALSO protecting actual Transwomen. Women being raped and attacked in bathrooms by predatory men due to the privacy it provides is already serious issue, not just cisgendered women, but Transwomen as well, so we have to have some means to provide both protection, but I am not seeing any easy answers on this as of yet.

As a girl, I too, along with millions of other girls, was taught from a young age, that if there is a man in the bathroom, do not stay in there, run away and get help, if they are blocking my path, to scream as loud as I can and try to put obstacles between us. We are taught this because of how many of us have been raped, abused, attacked and even killed by men. I was raped as a kid by an adult male. My sister was raped, my best friend, my cousin, even my own grandmother was raped. I grew up knowing this is what can happen to us. I knew so many other girls who this is true for as well. That is why we have to have "escape plans" " rape whistles" and a " buddy system" because when we do not this is what happens to us. I want to see Transwomen protected as well, they are targeted just the same. A female being afraid of seeing a man in the bathroom isn't " Transphobic" it is just what we have been taught so that we can survive. It would be great if this wasn't the world we live in, but sadly it is. We need to be able to keep everyone safe, and currently we still fail miserably at it.

...God. Fucking. Dammit -_-

I sincerely apologize to you for needing to revisit that time/place in order to educate me. And yeah, if the issue is THAT widespread, then I see no easy answer either.

Goddammit, is there ANYTHING "macho" douchebag dudebros HAVEN'T made worse?!