TLOU2 Review Thread

CriticalGaming

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Greg Miller and Kinda Funny games gave the game a masterpiece level review. Which i expected from Greg because the dude is a shill for the industry and I don't think I have ever seen this dude dislike any game ever. At worst I've seen him go "meh" towards a game.

Then today they put up a podcast with Spoiler discussion....and guess who's on that podcast. Joel, Ellie, and Neil Druckman
It's crazy, almost like nobody embedded in the industry wants to truly criticize at risk of losing good relations with the game studios behind everything. It's podcasts like this that make people distrust a reviewer because regardless of what you might say about not pandering to the studios, or that you aren't paid off for reviews (which they probably aren't), it doesn't look good when you heap praise upon a title while the buying audience is not enjoying the game.

I'll say this, I don't think 10/10 reviews are bought. However I do think that there is too much interpersonal relationships between the people making the games and the people reviewing and reporting on the games. People become friends and when you are friends with someone who is creating art, unless that art is horrid, you are probably going to be fairly encouraging in your feedback. This might even be subconscious, where you ignore problems that everyone else sees, but you just miss for whatever reason.

In the case of something like TLOU2, I imagine being friends with the people directing and acting in the game could explain reasoning to you about why the story is the way it is, which sort of justifies for you things that the general public wouldn't know. Thus you become more forgiving of the story because you understand more behind the scenes.

Perception is an important factor to consider I think when someone reviews a game. People distrust the big name sites because every big game seems to give 7+'s to all AAA game regardless of quality.

Alanah Pierce former IGN and Inside Games Daily writer, posted a video in which she explains why big sites always seem to give AAA games 7's or higher. In this she states thing like AAA games have the highest production value and there are usually the highest quality games. It's rare a AAA game comes out like shit and when they do, it's noted by just about everybody. Fallout 76 got a 5/10 from IGN btw. She also states that the person who gave TLOU2 a 10/10 on IGN probably does think that the game is that good.

But IGN has a pretty bad reputation for not checking their reviews before posting them. They gotten in trouble more than once for either reviews that were outright plagerized like with the Filip Miucin thing, or reviews posted that were filled with misinformation and then deleted comments or removing dislikes from their videos on youtube.

I guess the bottom line is, find reviewers you feel like you can trust but be aware of where a review is coming from before judging it.
 
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Gergar12

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That game's zombies/infected are too freaky. I got to a point where you needed to go alone, and it was too much for me. But I guess if you can endure it's a 9.5/10 so far.
 

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That's not Kojima himself, that's some person working their twitter. Honestly I find it below them to bother replying to posts like that one.

As for Jim, I'll just repost this, since he hasn't addressed the huge irony in his current stance:


Jim: *puts on makeup and wig and purple regalia* "ROISTEN, ROISTEN, I pwned a casual with my high level videogame opinions, these peasants are not real gamers, fan my chortles Roisten, this has excited my jawls! Oh my, they like games that I deem inferior, they are so casual, their games are not real games. " -ironic skit poking fun at "real gamers" being elitist

Also Jim: "Your game isn't real art, movies are art, books are art. You like/were affected by this game more than Schindler's List? Your taste is wrong, casual art fans! Go home peasants." - not ironic at all


Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...
 
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CriticalGaming

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That's not Kojima himself, that's some person working their twitter. Honestly I find it below them to bother replying to posts like that one.

As for Jim, I'll just repost this, since he hasn't addressed the huge irony in his current stance:


Jim: *puts on makeup and wig and purple regalia* "ROISTEN, ROISTEN, I pwned a casual with my high level videogame opinions, these peasants are not real gamers, fan my chortles Roisten, this has excited my jawls! Oh my, they like games that I deem inferior, they are so casual, their games are not real games. " -ironic skit poking fun at "real gamers" being elitist

Also Jim: "Your game isn't real art, movies are art, books are art. You like/were affected by this game more than Schindler's List? Your taste is wrong, casual art fans! Go home peasants." - not ironic at all


Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...
I think you missed the point of Jim's video entirely.

It isn't that the game couldn't be compared to Schindler's List. He is saying that you SHOULDN'T because one is a video game where you murder people for revenge and the other is a film about the Holocaust. Artistic merit or not, that's not really a tasteful comparison.

He uses a perfect example imo. AAA games are products, more than they are art. And if you can make a Bobble Head or PoPCap Figure of a video game, maybe don't compare that video game to a film that should never have a Popcap figurine attached. There are simply some things you shouldn't put together.

Like Chocolate and Spiders.
 

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I think you missed the point of Jim's video entirely.

It isn't that the game couldn't be compared to Schindler's List. He is saying that you SHOULDN'T because one is a video game where you murder people for revenge and the other is a film about the Holocaust. Artistic merit or not, that's not really a tasteful comparison.

He uses a perfect example imo. AAA games are products, more than they are art. And if you can make a Bobble Head or PoPCap Figure of a video game, maybe don't compare that video game to a film that should never have a Popcap figurine attached. There are simply some things you shouldn't put together.

Like Chocolate and Spiders.
Yeah I just don't buy that. It's trying to be elitist to say what can and can't be art. Who made him god and gave him the authority to decide something that's a product this X amount also can't be art too? This is some hipster crap about how you're only making art if you're starving and living in a tent.

I don't care about people's notions of tact either. If this guy was affected thus by this game, who is anyone to tell him his feelings are tactless. One ought to be free to be affected by the last of us 2 in any way they end up being affected, even if it's more impactful than Schindler's List, that's just as valid as the feelings of those who are affected by the movie more and see a game as a silly distraction.

There's no hierarchy to these things, to try to put it in place where it doesn't belong is indeed the very thing Gamer Aristocrat satirizes.
 

CriticalGaming

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Yeah I just don't buy that. It's trying to be elitist to say what can and can't be art. Who made him god and gave him the authority to decide something that's a product this X amount also can't be art too? This is some hipster crap about how you're only making art if you're starving and living in a tent.

I don't care about people's notions of tact either. If this guy was affected thus by this game, who is anyone to tell him his feelings are tactless. One ought to be free to be affected by the last of us 2 in any way they end up being affected, even if it's more impactful than Schindler's List, that's just as valid as the feelings of those who are affected by the movie more and see a game as a silly distraction.

There's no hierarchy to these things, to try to put it in place where it doesn't belong is indeed the very thing Gamer Aristocrat satirizes.
I mean he isn't denying that games aren't or can't be art. He is just pointing out that the reviews take was in a bit of poor taste. Ironically to your point, the review trying to make a hipster-esque and pretentious statement in regards to the impact of the game.

Despite the reviewer's opinion being valid, that doesn't automatically make that opinion immune to tact. Especially in today's outrage culture world where comparing a video game to a holocaust movie is just a bad idea. Especially right now.

There were other ways that writer could have phrased his enjoyment for the game that could have expressed the same thing without using a movie metaphor in poor taste.
 
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CriticalGaming

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Cosmonaut Variety Hour actually has a very interesting positive perspective regarding the game. If you are interested in hearing a different take, check this out.
 

hanselthecaretaker

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That's not Kojima himself, that's some person working their twitter. Honestly I find it below them to bother replying to posts like that one.

As for Jim, I'll just repost this, since he hasn't addressed the huge irony in his current stance:


Jim: *puts on makeup and wig and purple regalia* "ROISTEN, ROISTEN, I pwned a casual with my high level videogame opinions, these peasants are not real gamers, fan my chortles Roisten, this has excited my jawls! Oh my, they like games that I deem inferior, they are so casual, their games are not real games. " -ironic skit poking fun at "real gamers" being elitist

Also Jim: "Your game isn't real art, movies are art, books are art. You like/were affected by this game more than Schindler's List? Your taste is wrong, casual art fans! Go home peasants." - not ironic at all


Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...

“ROISTEN, ROISTEN”

That’s classic
 

Dreiko

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I mean he isn't denying that games aren't or can't be art. He is just pointing out that the reviews take was in a bit of poor taste. Ironically to your point, the review trying to make a hipster-esque and pretentious statement in regards to the impact of the game.

Despite the reviewer's opinion being valid, that doesn't automatically make that opinion immune to tact. Especially in today's outrage culture world where comparing a video game to a holocaust movie is just a bad idea. Especially right now.

There were other ways that writer could have phrased his enjoyment for the game that could have expressed the same thing without using a movie metaphor in poor taste.
The sentiment of his video is entirely that videogames are inherently inferior. He legit used a ratchet and clank movie rotten tomatoes score to make a point about how bad videogame writing is, not noticing the irony that this was a videogame MOVIE and not an actual videogame. The only way you miss that is by seeing the taint of videogame-relation as an inherent demerit. To say that a game is lucky to be a game and not a movie is to imply a status difference between the two, which is something I wholly reject.

As for the reviewer, to me it came off more like he was trying to think of the saddest movie ever to make an exaggerated comparison which illustrated his point. I don't think it's particularly hipsterish to reference holocaust films. I could be being naive about this but the important thing here is not whether this particular guy was being genuine or not but if there is some guy who genuinely felt like that, whoever he is, that he'd be afforded the same respect any other person has irrespective of their tastes and preferences in art.
 

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So I just finished the game, and I really don't know what the make of the ending. To start negatively, I think the final action gameplay portion as Ellie is fucking trash. She just turns into the most generic action chick fighting the most generic post-apocalypse asshole douchbags. The game spends all this time humanizing the WLF and the Seraphites, but then at the tail-end we're suddenly served up these reprehensible slavers, even making them wear shorts and sunglasses to make them even more hateable. And ofcourse they need to cart out the zombie pet trope to bring the point home. Ugh.

I was fine with Ellie letting Abby and Lev go, I sorta expected it anyway, but the game really should've fleshed that scene out better rather than Ellie saying 'Go. Just take him.' I feel like with most of this game the right stuff was there it just isn't given the proper nuance.

I also hated how Tommy was turned into an asshole by the end. Like I get that getting shot through the noggin might change your perspective a bit, and having your marriage on the rocks won't improve your mood either, but Jesus Christ, fuck you Tommy. I did however like how immediately after Dina followed Tommy out the door to stand up for Ellie, bascially telling him he could go fuck himself. Still, why did they have to do this to Tommy? The dude always had a heart of gold, and to see he reduced to this kinda pissed me off.

If I had to give this game a score I'd give it a reluctant 7, and that's mostly because of Abby's portion of the game. If it wasn't for her it would've been a 4. If they do make a third game I'd rather have Abby and Lev as the main characters, because to me Ellie has been warped into something very unpleasant and lifeless.

But to end this on a positive note, Jeffrey Wright as Isaac was pretty fantastic. The dude only has two scenes in the whole game, but he has a terrifically commanding and intimidating presence. Kudos for that one.
 

hanselthecaretaker

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Cosmonaut Variety Hour actually has a very interesting positive perspective regarding the game. If you are interested in hearing a different take, check this out.
I haven't watched it all yet but it's good to hear a pragmatic, more thoughtful opinion on different aspects.
One point he missed though, the safe codes aren't even needed because there is an audible difference in "ticks" when you're on the correct number. I used it for that one in the auto shop and don't even bother finding codes anymore.


The sentiment of his video is entirely that videogames are inherently inferior. He legit used a ratchet and clank movie rotten tomatoes score to make a point about how bad videogame writing is, not noticing the irony that this was a videogame MOVIE and not an actual videogame. The only way you miss that is by seeing the taint of videogame-relation as an inherent demerit. To say that a game is lucky to be a game and not a movie is to imply a status difference between the two, which is something I wholly reject.

As for the reviewer, to me it came off more like he was trying to think of the saddest movie ever to make an exaggerated comparison which illustrated his point. I don't think it's particularly hipsterish to reference holocaust films. I could be being naive about this but the important thing here is not whether this particular guy was being genuine or not but if there is some guy who genuinely felt like that, whoever he is, that he'd be afforded the same respect any other person has irrespective of their tastes and preferences in art.
I think it's kinda sad that someone who makes a *good* living talking about videogames is so eager to shit on any legitimacy they may have in the face of other mediums, regardless of examples used. All for the sake of..."entertainment"? If one is able to call his schtick that without wincing.

So I just finished the game, and I really don't know what the make of the ending. To start negatively, I think the final action gameplay portion as Ellie is fucking trash. She just turns into the most generic action chick fighting the most generic post-apocalypse asshole douchbags. The game spends all this time humanizing the WLF and the Seraphites, but then at the tail-end we're suddenly served up these reprehensible slavers, even making them wear shorts and sunglasses to make them even more hateable. And ofcourse they need to cart out the zombie pet trope to bring the point home. Ugh.

I was fine with Ellie letting Abby and Lev go, I sorta expected it anyway, but the game really should've fleshed that scene out better rather than Ellie saying 'Go. Just take him.' I feel like with most of this game the right stuff was there it just isn't given the proper nuance.

I also hated how Tommy was turned into an asshole by the end. Like I get that getting shot through the noggin might change your perspective a bit, and having your marriage on the rocks won't improve your mood either, but Jesus Christ, fuck you Tommy. I did however like how immediately after Dina followed Tommy out the door to stand up for Ellie, bascially telling him he could go fuck himself. Still, why did they have to do this to Tommy? The dude always had a heart of gold, and to see he reduced to this kinda pissed me off.

If I had to give this game a score I'd give it a reluctant 7, and that's mostly because of Abby's portion of the game. If it wasn't for her it would've been a 4. If they do make a third game I'd rather have Abby and Lev as the main characters, because to me Ellie has been warped into something very unpleasant and lifeless.

But to end this on a positive note, Jeffrey Wright as Isaac was pretty fantastic. The dude only has two scenes in the whole game, but he has a terrifically commanding and intimidating presence. Kudos for that one.
After watching the video review Critical Gaming posted above, I'm inclined to think it's reasonable to blame Joel for a lot of it. In her mind her continued existence is based on a selfish act that she had no say in, regardless of him trying to convince her there was no cure (which was quite possibly true based on notes found in the game world and the Fireflies being full of themselves).

Having said that, an old Reddit post had an interesting theory on the first game, and one of the responses added further perspective.
 
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The sentiment of his video is entirely that videogames are inherently inferior. He legit used a ratchet and clank movie rotten tomatoes score to make a point about how bad videogame writing is, not noticing the irony that this was a videogame MOVIE and not an actual videogame. The only way you miss that is by seeing the taint of videogame-relation as an inherent demerit. To say that a game is lucky to be a game and not a movie is to imply a status difference between the two, which is something I wholly reject.

As for the reviewer, to me it came off more like he was trying to think of the saddest movie ever to make an exaggerated comparison which illustrated his point. I don't think it's particularly hipsterish to reference holocaust films. I could be being naive about this but the important thing here is not whether this particular guy was being genuine or not but if there is some guy who genuinely felt like that, whoever he is, that he'd be afforded the same respect any other person has irrespective of their tastes and preferences in art.
Jim was saying AAA video games are inherently inferior because, like a Marvel MOVIE, they are too much of a product. He used the Ratchet and Clank movie as an example of how video game writing would get critiqued by actual critics. Look at the FFXV movie's reviews as well. You think Heavy Rain would get any higher praise than being at best a fun B-movie by movie critics? Dan Houser would be called a hack if movie critics reviewed his games. Yet, video game critics legit think (or at least rate) the writing in these games is masterpeice-level writing. That's why Jim says TLOU2 or Heavy Rain or GTA4 are lucky to be games because if they were movies, they wouldn't get near the rating that they got as games. The reason why video game writing is not on par with other mediums isn't because video games are inherently inferior, it's because the game industry has almost 0 top-tier writing talent. Just look at how much TV has improved over the last couple decades because the writing talent (along with other talent) has moved into that medium. TV was called the "idiot box" not because it was an inherently inferior medium but the content it did have was inferior.

The funniest part of the Schindler's List tweet is that it begins with saying "In a medium where everything is John Wick..." when TLOU2 wishes it was fucking John Wick let alone Schindler's "fucking" List. And, Gremlins 2: The New Batch is much better than TLOU2 too; Joe Dante is a way fucking better director than Neil Druckmann.
 

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The funniest part of the Schindler's List tweet is that it begins with saying "In a medium where everything is John Wick..." when TLOU2 wishes it was fucking John Wick let alone Schindler's "fucking" List. And, Gremlins 2: The New Batch is much better than TLOU2 too; Joe Dante is a way fucking better director than Neil Druckmann.
Yeah, and Druckmann is a way better game director than Joe Dante, and probably every other movie director. And TLoU2 is a way better game compared to any other movie. So every movie is shit compared to games, I guess? Or is that just a really stupid comparison to make? I'm leaning to yes.
 

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Yeah, and Druckmann is a way better game director than Joe Dante, and probably every other movie director. And TLoU2 is a way better game compared to any other movie. So every movie is shit compared to games, I guess? Or is that just a really stupid comparison to make? I'm leaning to yes.
How is comparing written dialog or story from one medium to another a stupid comparison to make? A well written character or story from a movie or TV show or a game can be interchangeable between mediums. Paul Dini wrote good shit for TV, film, and video games. One of the biggest problems with video games is that they're usually made backwards with the devs more interested in making gameplay mechanics and levels, then having a writer find some way of linking them all together vs both the game side and the writing side working together to create a singular piece.
 

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How is comparing written dialog or story from one medium to another a stupid comparison to make? A well written character or story from a movie or TV show or a game can be interchangeable between mediums. Paul Dini wrote good shit for TV, film, and video games. One of the biggest problems with video games is that they're usually made backwards with the devs more interested in making gameplay mechanics and levels, then having a writer find some way of linking them all together vs both the game side and the writing side working together to create a singular piece.
Except we're not just comparing dialoge and story, we're comparing the product as a whole. At least, that's certainly what Jim Sterling was doing. But even then, saying TLoU2 has worse dialoge and writing than some of the worst movies... yeah no. By the way, I don't think Gremlins 2 is a bad movie, I actually think it's pretty clever and great. Also, Jim comparing TLoU2 to Mad Max 2 quality wise is a pretty terrible way to prove his point, as it's heaping praise onto the former, but he's probably not aware of that since Jim has an awful critical eye when it comes to movies.

And almost no movie is made in a perfect sequence from script to production to shooting. Some movies make up the script as they go, or just make most of it improv. Some movies rewrite the script to fit in an action setpiece. The Blair Witch Project just set its three actors into the woods with camcorders and had the crew bug them (scare them) in the middle of the night, and left voodoo stuff on their path, which they then had to react to in their own way while recording it. Movies are just as messy in their production as games. You claiming games design the gameplay first and then add story to it is the best way to make games, since the gameplay in games is the script.
 

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Except we're not just comparing dialoge and story, we're comparing the product as a whole. At least, that's certainly what Jim Sterling was doing. But even then, saying TLoU2 has worse dialoge and writing than some of the worst movies... yeah no. By the way, I don't think Gremlins 2 is a bad movie, I actually think it's pretty clever and great. Also, Jim comparing TLoU2 to Mad Max 2 quality wise is a pretty terrible way to prove his point, as it's heaping praise onto the former, but he's probably not aware of that since Jim has an awful critical eye when it comes to movies.

And almost no movie is made in a perfect sequence from script to production to shooting. Some movies make up the script as they go, or just make most of it improv. Some movies rewrite the script to fit in an action setpiece. The Blair Witch Project just set its three actors into the woods with camcorders and had the crew bug them (scare them) in the middle of the night, and left voodoo stuff on their path, which they then had to react to in their own way while recording it. Movies are just as messy in their production as games. You claiming games design the gameplay first and then add story to it is the best way to make games, since the gameplay in games is the script.
When I compare games to movies or whatever, I'm comparing the stuff that can be compared from the writing, characters, story, cinematography, order of the scenes (with TLOU2 in mind), etc. I feel that's what Jim was doing as well. All the game reviewers that called Heavy Rain a masterpiece, how? It's fine to talk about the branching choices and whatnot as a game. But calling it a masterpiece just doesn't make sense when I can easily imagine the game being so much better if it had top-notch writing. It's like calling a typical Jackie Chan movie (and I love Jackie Chan movies) the highest form of cinema because the stuff Jackie does excel at could be the best of that ever filmed but the plots are pretty much just a clothesline linking the action scenes together. Anyway in the aspects of TLOU2 that you can compare to movies and TV shows, it was mainly just fine, something like 10-20% was good (possibly great), 10-20% was bad, and the rest was fine. Like I said way back, the "trigger" for revenge in John Wick was more shocking when the trailer literally said what happens whereas TLOU2, I didn't know what was coming and it was still less shocking. And, yes, Gremlins 2 is awesome, I own it on blu-ray.

I didn't imply movies are made perfectly or anything, some are planned out as well as one can plan a movie out, some are made up as they go. Good movies are mainly the result of everyone working together to make a singular vision. Whereas most video games are the result of the game people doing one thing and the writers doing a different thing. It's very apparent in most games so much so you wouldn't be surprised if the writers and game people never even talked to each other. You can totally tell when you play a game that wasn't made that way, like I wasn't at all surprised by watching the Horizon NoClip documentary that Guerilla and John Gonzalez actually worked together (and John mentions how that is rare in the industry). It's why I feel that video games have such an untapped potential and why I'm critical about them because they can be so much better. Why is TLOU2 about revenge when it could've been all about the Joel and Ellie's relationship coming to grips with the lie from the 1st game (which is easily where TLOU2 is strongest)? Because how are you going to frame that story around killing hundreds of enemies. The medium's addiction to combat gameplay is the main thing holding it back.
 

hanselthecaretaker

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When I compare games to movies or whatever, I'm comparing the stuff that can be compared from the writing, characters, story, cinematography, order of the scenes (with TLOU2 in mind), etc. I feel that's what Jim was doing as well. All the game reviewers that called Heavy Rain a masterpiece, how? It's fine to talk about the branching choices and whatnot as a game. But calling it a masterpiece just doesn't make sense when I can easily imagine the game being so much better if it had top-notch writing. It's like calling a typical Jackie Chan movie (and I love Jackie Chan movies) the highest form of cinema because the stuff Jackie does excel at could be the best of that ever filmed but the plots are pretty much just a clothesline linking the action scenes together. Anyway in the aspects of TLOU2 that you can compare to movies and TV shows, it was mainly just fine, something like 10-20% was good (possibly great), 10-20% was bad, and the rest was fine. Like I said way back, the "trigger" for revenge in John Wick was more shocking when the trailer literally said what happens whereas TLOU2, I didn't know what was coming and it was still less shocking. And, yes, Gremlins 2 is awesome, I own it on blu-ray.

I didn't imply movies are made perfectly or anything, some are planned out as well as one can plan a movie out, some are made up as they go. Good movies are mainly the result of everyone working together to make a singular vision. Whereas most video games are the result of the game people doing one thing and the writers doing a different thing. It's very apparent in most games so much so you wouldn't be surprised if the writers and game people never even talked to each other. You can totally tell when you play a game that wasn't made that way, like I wasn't at all surprised by watching the Horizon NoClip documentary that Guerilla and John Gonzalez actually worked together (and John mentions how that is rare in the industry). It's why I feel that video games have such an untapped potential and why I'm critical about them because they can be so much better. Why is TLOU2 about revenge when it could've been all about the Joel and Ellie's relationship coming to grips with the lie from the 1st game (which is easily where TLOU2 is strongest)? Because how are you going to frame that story around killing hundreds of enemies. The medium's addiction to combat gameplay is the main thing holding it back.
How would you make a “game” out of Joel and Ellie hashing out a lie? There wouldn’t be any driving force in terms of what they’re doing besides arguing or trying to convince each other of something neither knows (a cure) was even complete true in the first place.

In terms of motivation, assuming you’re referring to the dog dying? It’s sad of course but it’s certainly not the first dog to die a cruel death in a movie either. We knew the dog all of what, 10 minutes before it happened too. I love the John Wick movies and am glad they were able to keep the scene in, but the mystique Wick’s enemies apply to his motive(s) was always more interesting than the motive itself.
 

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I finished it earlier today.

I think the greatest bit of praise, but also the biggest criticism, I can assign to it is the fact that I found it very fun. As a matter of fact I found it to be the most enjoyable third person shooter I've gotten to play since Max Payne 3. However, if it really was Neil Druckmann's intention to make the player question video game violence on a moment to moment basis, he completely missed the mark.

That's simply not possible with those specific mechanics. Not when it's so easy and so satisyfying to shoot, stab, choke and punch your way through countless waves of zombies, soldiers and cultists. The fact enemies often yell out the names of their comrades when you kill them is kind of cute, the first few times, but wears off very quickly. That's the issue here. If you want to humanize enemy characters and question violence as core gameplay, you'd have to completely rethink the mechanical framework. Then every single combat encounter would have to be threatening, every single enemy would need to be characterized to some extent and every single fight would need to have an emotional impact.

See, that's the core issue with the game, or rather, with how it's trying to be "artistic". It substitutes actual emotional weight with "grit". And it's definitely gritty. At points almost comically so. People go through terrible things and do terrible things to each other but it's all so closely tied to the mechanical language of exciting action games and the visual language of exciting action movies, so afraid to be actually unpleasant as an experience, that it's never quite able to grow beyond banality. It's honestly a bit frustrating to see. All those absurd production values and all that lush presentation for a story that effectively boils down to two grimly determined meatheads crawling through the dirt and shooting dozens of generic soldiers and zombies to settle a score over the death of their respective daddies. I think it was the point when you were playing Ellie, chasing a single woman through a hospital with an axe in your hand like Nicholson in The Shining where I thought "This is complete shlock, isn't it?"

Abbie's storyline is kind of better, mostly on the virtue of her being an overall more likeable character and, most of all, having a more likeable supporting cast. The whole thing with Lev seemed to me like a bit to overt an attempt to recreate the relationship between Joel and Ellie from the first game but overall I can at least say I cared about the things she went through and I was sad when most of that supporting cast inevitably got killed.

So, here we are, it's a lavishly produced, excellently acted, mechanically smooth epic about what's basically the worlds most drawn out catfight. If I had to rate it on gameplay alone, it'd be a 9 out of 10, if I had to rate the story it'd be a 7/10 (and even that would be much lower if the presentation wasn't top notch), it evens out at an 8/10, which I think is a very good score. It's not my favourite game of the year (That's Final Fantasy 7 Remake) but I had a good time playing it. It had two scenes that particularly stuck with me, one's the one in the hospital I already mentioned, because it was very silly, and the other one was Abby breaking a guys neck with her thighs, because it gave me an erection. But as much as I enjoyed the presentation and the combat and as much as i may fantasize about Abby holding me in her strong arms at night, if anyone tries to convince you it's some great artistic accomplishment for the medium... yeah, no. It doesn't hold a candle to even last years Death Stranding, much less games like Pathologic 2, Silent Hill 2, Silent Hill Shattered Memories or Killer 7 when it comes to genuine artistic merit. When it comes to actually being a fun game though, yeah, I guess I take it over those.
 
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