Dune, adapted by Denis Villeneuve

[MrCalavera]

Nice Pink Floyd cover. Would be cool if they borrowed some looks from prog album art - I agree that they could go crazier with sets and costumes, but i figure they wanted a proper adaptation.

The worm at the end felt... Forced. Like some exec pushed for The Worm shot in the trailer, because it's DUNE, so there has to be The Worm, because otherwise people wouldn't know it's DUNE.

Villeneuve already proved himself twice(and how) when it comes to sci-fi, so i'm rather calm about the quality.

 

[Gordon_4]

Nice Pink Floyd cover. Would be cool if they borrowed some looks from prog album art - I agree that they could go crazier with sets and costumes, but i figure they wanted a proper adaptation.

The worm at the end felt... Forced. Like some exec pushed for The Worm shot in the trailer, because it's DUNE, so there has to be The Worm, because otherwise people wouldn't know it's DUNE.

Villeneuve already proved himself twice(and how) when it comes to sci-fi, so i'm rather calm about the quality.

Well, it’s common enough for trailers to feature a nice big thing at the end, the Worms are as good a thing as any to use and it’s not like they’re a big secret.

 

[MrCalavera]

On the one hand, I think Denis Villeneuve is a terrific director, and I loved Prisoners and Arrival. On the other, this trailer is giving me major Blade Runner 2049 vibes, and while I can't say that movie was bad in anyway, I did find it dreadfully dull.

Hmm. For me Blade Runner 2049 was dreadfully distinct as a near perfect sequel, down to being financialy dead on arrival.
Yeah, it was slow, but so was original Blade Runner, if not slower.
OTOH Prisoners i found lacking in tension department(up until the very last scene), while overall being very good.

Well, it’s common enough for trailers to feature a nice big thing at the end, the Worms are as good a thing as any to use and it’s not like they’re a big secret.

Right, but it still felt tackled on.

 

[happyninja42]

Right, but it still felt tackled on.

Eh, I disagree it was tacked on. Given the line right before it, is the end of the Litany Against Fear, which sets up this idea of Paul being powerful and strong, to then cut to the trembling of the sands, and a massive dune wall shifting, then to have the beast rising up to chase them during the escape from the ornithopter scene, felt appropriate to me.

It was sort of "oh, no fear huh? Ok bud, say hello to my massive friend! The Old Man of the Desert doesn't give two shits about your litany, it will eat you if you do not walk without rhythm."

Plus, there are tons of people who know nothing about Dune, so adding something as massive and epic as the sandworms helps to drum up interest in the "holy shit, what the hell is that?!" camp of potential audience members.

 

[happyninja42]

I just realized something after rewatching the trailer again. The shield combat, will give us an actual thematic reason for the Snyder-esque Fast/Slow combat editing cliche. Since the way the shields work is specifically designed around kinetic energy, fast attacks basically are relegated for defensive maneuvers/positioning/leverage, but slow strikes are the ones actually intended to cause damage. So fast,fast,fast, sloooooow, fast fast sloooow, is totally legit!

I dunno but that just kind of amuses me.

 

[Dreiko]

I've had minor passing interest in this series but I never ended up looking into it and I avoided spoilers, about all I know is that it has big desert worms lol. Would reading the book (books?) first be the way to go? I know there's been various films but since I am unsure if I wanna spoiler the story of the books or not yet I've not seen any of em. Also a basic non-spoiler description of the story would be greatly appreciated, cheers~

 

[09philj]

I've had minor passing interest in this series but I never ended up looking into it and I avoided spoilers, about all I know is that it has big desert worms lol. Would reading the book (books?) first be the way to go? I know there's been various films but since I am unsure if I wanna spoiler the story of the books or not yet I've not seen any of em. Also a basic non-spoiler description of the story would be greatly appreciated, cheers~

There's a hellhole desert planet called Arrakis which is immensely valuable because it's where you get the Spice that lets you get so high you can see the edge of space and operate FTL spaceships. The Emperor of the galaxy sends the noble house Atreides to control the planet, but conspires with the rival house Harkonnen to betray them. However, the Duke's son Paul and his concubine Jessica escape out into the desert. It's a landmark bit of epic sci-fi. Some weird storytelling choices here and there, but fundamentally a great story.

 

[happyninja42]

I've had minor passing interest in this series but I never ended up looking into it and I avoided spoilers, about all I know is that it has big desert worms lol. Would reading the book (books?) first be the way to go?

Eh, I mean it would help, because invariably the concepts and details in the movie, will be condensed overviews of what's in the book. I don't think ultimately it's required, but your enjoyment of the film might be enhanced by being familiar with the source material. But then, maybe not, hard to say, YMMV and all.

I know there's been various films but since I am unsure if I wanna spoiler the story of the books or not yet I've not seen any of em. Also a basic non-spoiler description of the story would be greatly appreciated, cheers~

The galactic society is basically modeled on feudal europe. The various houses control planets, often have feudal titles like duke and baron, etc. Lots of political in fighting between the families. Wars, intrigue, assassinations, coups, insurgent rebel uprisings. Your standard political machinations elements.

The unique stuff is the fact that it's all based on Arrakis, Dune, desert planet. The only planet that has the spice melange, which is vital to the functioning of the galactic society. It's basically their version of oil (Frank's intended analogy when writing it). It allows FTL travel, which is necessary to maintain the society, it extends the life of the user, and expands consciousness, allowing the afore mentioned FTL travel, and other things. It's basically a super-macguffin that borders on magical pixie dust for all the things it can accomplish.

The story is centered around House Atreides (Paul's house), recently being given control of Arrakis by the Emperor. It was previously under the control of their rival house, the Harkonnens. Much backstabbery insues, and Paul uncovers conspiracies and mystical prophecies along the way.

That's about as non-spoilery as I can make it. Most of those points were touched on in the trailer, minus the stuff about the spice itself.

 

[Dreiko]

Eh, I mean it would help, because invariably the concepts and details in the movie, will be condensed overviews of what's in the book. I don't think ultimately it's required, but your enjoyment of the film might be enhanced by being familiar with the source material. But then, maybe not, hard to say, YMMV and all.


The galactic society is basically modeled on feudal europe. The various houses control planets, often have feudal titles like duke and baron, etc. Lots of political in fighting between the families. Wars, intrigue, assassinations, coups, insurgent rebel uprisings. Your standard political machinations elements.

The unique stuff is the fact that it's all based on Arrakis, Dune, desert planet. The only planet that has the spice melange, which is vital to the functioning of the galactic society. It's basically their version of oil (Frank's intended analogy when writing it). It allows FTL travel, which is necessary to maintain the society, it extends the life of the user, and expands consciousness, allowing the afore mentioned FTL travel, and other things. It's basically a super-macguffin that borders on magical pixie dust for all the things it can accomplish.

The story is centered around House Atreides (Paul's house), recently being given control of Arrakis by the Emperor. It was previously under the control of their rival house, the Harkonnens. Much backstabbery insues, and Paul uncovers conspiracies and mystical prophecies along the way.

That's about as non-spoilery as I can make it. Most of those points were touched on in the trailer, minus the stuff about the spice itself.

There's a hellhole desert planet called Arrakis which is immensely valuable because it's where you get the Spice that lets you get so high you can see the edge of space and operate FTL spaceships. The Emperor of the galaxy sends the noble house Atreides to control the planet, but conspires with the rival house Harkonnen to betray them. However, the Duke's son Paul and his concubine Jessica escape out into the desert. It's a landmark bit of epic sci-fi. Some weird storytelling choices here and there, but fundamentally a great story.

Hmm, interesting, it seems to mix fantasy and scifi tropes. The oil metaphor worked in the stormlight archive so it's interesting to see it being a drug this time. I'll prolly give the book a read. Thanks to both of ya!

 

[happyninja42]

Hmm, interesting, it seems to mix fantasy and scifi tropes. The oil metaphor worked in the stormlight archive so it's interesting to see it being a drug this time. I'll prolly give the book a read. Thanks to both of ya!

Yeah it's definitely a blend. Like, one thing that I doubt the film will touch on, that might make you go "wait...wut?' is why everyone is running around with swords, instead of laser weapons when they are doing infantry style combat. Their is a reason established in the books, but the films don't ever touch on it.

In short, the technology developed to where all the houses have personal shield devices, that are based on kinetic energy. So the faster something moves, the more likely it is to be deflected. So it basically makes slugthrower weapons useless. Now, laser weapons do work, but the problem is that the energy level needed to break a shield, causes a quantum feedback that causes both the shielded target, and the shooter's laser weapon, to blow up on almost a mini-nuke scale of destruction. So...very bad, mutual destruction of both sides basically forced them all to revert back to bladed weapons, to account for shields. It's all because Frank wanted some cool sword/melee combat scenes in his books, but it is at least established in the canon. But I've yet to see a film actually explain that. So some viewers might be like "yeah but...why don't they just shoot each other?" People who didn't read the books, would be a bit confused on that point.

 

[Satinavian]

The galactic society is basically modeled on feudal europe.

You are the second person saying that. But i always thought it was really obvious that the Dune empire is a stand-in for the Ottoman empire. They even use the title "padisha emporer" and have hardly disguised Jannissaries as important plot device.

But Herbert always had a habit of mixing stuff for interesting results.

 

[Chimpzy]

Hmm, interesting, it seems to mix fantasy and scifi tropes.

Kind of, in the sense that it more or less invented/codified a fair few of those tropes. It can come over outdated at times, and be a rather longwinded read, but keep in mind a lot of these ideas were still new at the time. It's sort of like Tolkien in that respect, and that's probably the best way to approach reading Dune, as a "one of the first of its kind".

 

[happyninja42]

You are the second person saying that. But i always thought it was really obvious that the Dune empire is a stand-in for the Ottoman empire. They even use the title "padisha emporer" and have hardly disguised Jannissaries as important plot device.

But Herbert always had a habit of mixing stuff for interesting results.

I know nothing of the Ottomon empire so I can't really comment on that. But he uses titles commonly associated with european feudal, so I would say it's at least in part influenced by that society. But it wouldn't surprise me if he went all buffet style with his setting. I mean the Fremen are highly modeled after a middle eastern culture, I think he specifically cites Zen-Sunni religious origins at some point in the book, and their verbage is heavily arabic in origin, so it's hardly all from one source. Like any good author, he took bits from various sources that best represented what he was trying to convey, and mooshed them together. But given the nature of the series, and it's emphasis on how societies change and evolve with time, having things from various cultures being blended is right in theme with the series.

 

[Terminal Blue]

Hmm, interesting, it seems to mix fantasy and scifi tropes.

Dune kind of invented the whole concept of reactionary science fiction, in that it's set in the future but a lot of the social structure and conventions are based on history. Settings like 40k, Battletech, Eve Online or Fading Suns very much owe their existence to Dune in this regard.

The idea is that humanity in Dune has been around for a long time and spread really far into the universe, to the point that there multiple spacefaring societies originally descended from humans. Hypothetically these all exist under the hegemony of a single Empire, but it's more like the Holy Roman Empire in that it's kind of a mess.

Another conceit of Dune is that people can develop amazing abilities through their super advanced understanding of psychology and physiology (or by huffing space drugs). For example, there are no computers. At some point in the past there was a war between humans and machines and computers were banned, so instead of computers they use humans with highly trained mental abilities.

Another more unfortunate conceit of Dune is that eugenics is real and works..

Dune was written in the 60s by a guy who was conservative even by the standards of the 60s. I doubt that will be much of a problem for you, but it is a weird experience to read today. I'd also point out that as the series goes on Herbert starts to get horny. Old and horny. Reading the later books can be kind of like accidentally seeing your grandad's search history.

But even if you can get past these things, my feeling is that Dune is much more influential than it is good. He's not a great writer. A lot of his worldbuilding is clumsy and overly technical. His stories often rely heavily on conveniences which are introduced with no planting. Read the first book so that you get the references, but if you don't like it there's no reason to push on. It doesn't get better.

 

[Dreiko]

Dune kind of invented the whole concept of reactionary science fiction, in that it's set in the future but a lot of the social structure and conventions are based on history. Settings like 40k, Battletech, Eve Online or Fading Suns very much owe their existence to Dune in this regard.

The idea is that humanity in Dune has been around for a long time and spread really far into the universe, to the point that there multiple spacefaring societies originally descended from humans. Hypothetically these all exist under the hegemony of a single Empire, but it's more like the Holy Roman Empire in that it's kind of a mess.

Another conceit of Dune is that people can develop amazing abilities through their super advanced understanding of psychology and physiology (or by huffing space drugs). For example, there are no computers. At some point in the past there was a war between humans and machines and computers were banned, so instead of computers they use humans with highly trained mental abilities.

Another more unfortunate conceit of Dune is that eugenics is real and works..

Dune was written in the 60s by a guy who was conservative even by the standards of the 60s. I doubt that will be much of a problem for you, but it is a weird experience to read today. I'd also point out that as the series goes on Herbert starts to get horny. Old and horny. Reading the later books can be kind of like accidentally seeing your grandad's search history.

But even if you can get past these things, my feeling is that Dune is much more influential than it is good. He's not a great writer. A lot of his worldbuilding is clumsy and overly technical. His stories often rely heavily on conveniences which are introduced with no planting. Read the first book so that you get the references, but if you don't like it there's no reason to push on. It doesn't get better.

Haha, all those franchises (especially warhammer) are kinda like Dune for me in that I always had passing interest in them but never actually got around to getting into them. But yeah it sounds unique and interesting enough and I had no idea it was as old as the 60s, I was thinking around 80s or so.

And man, old and horny is not something that'd bother someone with a Soriz avatar XD. His personality could be summed up as "punch boulders, fuck bitches" and he's in his 70s XD.

 

[happyninja42]

Haha, all those franchises (especially warhammer) are kinda like Dune for me in that I always had passing interesting in them but never actually got around to getting into them. But yeah it sounds unique and interesting enough and I had no idea it was as old as the 60s, I was thinking around 80s or so.

And man, old and horny is not something that'd bother someone with a Soriz avatar XD. His personality could be summed up as "punch boulders, fuck bitches" and he's in his 70s XD.

Eh, I read the series when I was in my teens, and frankly the sex aspect of it in the later books wasn't all that shocking. It was mostly just "sex as addiction/control/dominance" politics. Which was hardly a new concept even for a pre-internet teen. "People using sexual desire and pleasure as a tool to get what they want from others?! :O Say it aint so!" So I wouldn't really worry about it. WAY weirder shit in porn and hentai than what Frank was discussing in the later books.

 

[Terminal Blue]

Eh, I read the series when I was in my teens, and frankly the sex aspect of it in the later books wasn't all that shocking.

I wouldn't describe it as shocking.

I would describe it as increasingly awkward.

 

[Dreiko]

Ended up getting the boxset with all 6 of em on amazon, hopefully I can finish it in time for this movie to come out haha.

 

[happyninja42]

Ended up getting the boxset with all 6 of em on amazon, hopefully I can finish it in time for this movie to come out haha.

You will probably only need to finish the first book, for the purposes of this film. They are really dense as far as story elements, and it wouldn't surprise me if they split the film into 2 parts frankly. I'm not a big fan of that idea, but, to do otherwise would mean carving out huge swathes of the story. I mean the scifi channel did the first book as a 6 hour mini series, and it still had to leave stuff on the cutting room floor.

 

[Eacaraxe]

In short, the technology developed to where all the houses have personal shield devices, that are based on kinetic energy. So the faster something moves, the more likely it is to be deflected.

More like shields can be modulated to admit or repel a spectrum of kinetic energy, in thresholds measured in joules if I remember right. Because that's why hunter-seekers were so absolutely lethal, they can bypass almost any shield that wouldn't kill its wearer on account of how light they were. And that was the other thing about shields too, they could be attuned so finely they wouldn't even admit airflow; that actually came up in one of the later books if I remember right, when one of the characters managed to either avoid a gas attack or was assassinated by asphyxiation by an over-tuned shield.

Now, laser weapons do work, but the problem is that the energy level needed to break a shield, causes a quantum feedback that causes both the shielded target, and the shooter's laser weapon, to blow up on almost a mini-nuke scale of destruction. So...very bad, mutual destruction of both sides basically forced them all to revert back to bladed weapons, to account for shields.

Unless you're Duncan Idaho

Spoiler

and already died so many times you just no longer give two shits about human mortality.

The grand irony of all this is the book is set in specifically the one place in all the universe where defense shields don't work, and not only don't work are suicidal to use. But that becomes really fuckin' relevant about halfway to two thirds through the book, so...