New York Post editor calls out Twitter for refusing to let his publication post one of their stories

Trunkage

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Huh? "Forced to shut down"? How so? And what do you mean by businesses refused to serve them?
He's probably talking about Gab. There were quite a few murder plots over the years that were on Gab. People stated their intentions, sometimes with explict detail. And within a few days, the stated person became victim

Gab never did anything about this. Some users took these plots to the police and actually saved people and stop murders in progress. Gab says its not responsible but was willing to help once the police knocked on their door for information

For some reason, ISP didnt want to be associated with Gab after this and pulled out. Many ISPs refused to let him on. I cant imagine why. So 'forced to shut down.'
 

lil devils x

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I agree with privacy, but good luck getting it passed. As for private emails, I wouldn't even use the same phone for my job if I was a high ranking US official let alone the same email.

As for why we don't have fiber optic internet, yes fiber optics you heard me, it's because greedy ISPs were given billions of dollars to do so, but pocketed the money because the government acted like idiots giving the money without oversight.

If we don't get the ISPs or the government to fund last-mile internet connections to a rural community it's not the fault of the people who have internet.
And the biggest offender blocking universal Fiber is who Trump put in charge of the FCC. At&T is your primary culprit. They sued Google when they were trying to give people free fiber for "unfair trade practices" and then gets congress to block anyone from being able to sue AT&t.
 

Houseman

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Huh? "Forced to shut down"? How so? And what do you mean by businesses refused to serve them?
For example, they are demonized as being "hate sites" that serve nazis, regardless of the truth. People post CP and then anonymously report on them. People influence providers like Cloudflare and get them to stop providing CDN services, which opens them up to DDoS attacks. Services that host stop hosting them. Payment services stop allowing them to process transactions, like Paypal. Visa and Mastercard refused to do business with WikiLeaks. Google stops ranking them. Sites like reddit and twitter blacklist mention of them, that sort of thing.

You're funny Houseman
So you don't have anything on me? So you can't prove your accusation of "you wanted speech cancelled because you didnā€™t like it"?
Where's my apology?
 
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Trunkage

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So you don't have anything on me? So you can't prove your accusation of "you wanted speech cancelled because you didnā€™t like it"?
Where's my apology?
Hey everyone, Houseman wanted to Cancel Cuties and then pretended to be pro-Free Speech.

That's why he's been funny and not answering questions.

Is that enough of an apology, Houseman?

If anyone else would like to add in what they saw happen, feel free
 

Houseman

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Hey everyone, Houseman wanted to Cancel Cuties and then pretended to be pro-Free Speech.
Hey everyone, Trunkage says I want to "Cancel Cuties", but can't quote me saying such a thing!

That why this is a lie.
 

Exley97

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For example, they are demonized as being "hate sites" that serve nazis, regardless of the truth. People post CP and then anonymously report on them. People influence providers like Cloudflare and get them to stop providing CDN services, which opens them up to DDoS attacks. Services that host stop hosting them. Payment services stop allowing them to process transactions, like Paypal. Visa and Mastercard refused to do business with WikiLeaks. Google stops ranking them. Sites like reddit and twitter blacklist mention of them, that sort of thing.
Let's back up for a second.

1)I assume you'e talking about Gab, but what other platforms have been "forced to shut down"?
2) Cloudflare, to the best of my knowledge, did not drop Gab. And seriously, Cloudflare will take and keep pretty much ANYONE as a client (except for Daily Stormer). I know, because I cover them.
3) Are you seriously out here defending Gab and blaming that platform's problems on *other people* and not the fucking antisemitic and racist slimes that made their home there?
 

Gergar12

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And the biggest offender blocking universal Fiber is who Trump put in charge of the FCC. At&T is your primary culprit. They sued Google when they were trying to give people free fiber for "unfair trade practices" and then gets congress to block anyone from being able to sue AT&t.
Isn't Comcast a major DNC donor??? It's both party's fault.
 

Houseman

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You don't have any though. You don't answer questions.
What questions didn't I answer?
"What happens then?"
"The same thing that happens to all other CP"

Please explain how this isn't an answer.

1)I assume you'e talking about Gab, but what other platforms have been "forced to shut down"?
Are you focusing on the "forced to shut down" part? That part is inconsequential. It doesn't matter or not whether they are technically shuttered or not, what matters is whether or not their businesses were negatively impacted.

And no, I am not only talking about Gab.

Cloudflare, to the best of my knowledge, did not drop Gab.
Cloudflare dropped 8chan.

Are you seriously out here defending Gab and blaming that platform's problems on *other people* and not the fucking antisemitic and racist slimes that made their home there?
1) See, look, it works. You have a negative opinion of Gab. I wonder who benefits from that?
2) I'm still not only talking about Gab.

I think you've missed the point about how businesses are being harmed, and how "just start your own!" is as useful as "just stop being depressed!"
 

Exley97

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Are you focusing on the "forced to shut down" part? That part is inconsequential. It doesn't matter or not whether they are technically shuttered or not, what matters is whether or not their businesses were negatively impacted.

And no, I am not only talking about Gab.



Cloudflare dropped 8chan.



1) See, look, it works. You have a negative opinion of Gab. I wonder who benefits from that?
2) I'm still not only talking about Gab.

I think you've missed the point about how businesses are being harmed, and how "just start your own!" is as useful as "just stop being depressed!"
1) Yes, I am focused on your claim that businesses were "forced to shut down" because YOU SAID IT.
2) If you're not just talking about Gab, then here's a thought: give me other names of platforms that weren't full of racists and antisemites and were forced to shut down.
3) Okay, but Cloudflare didn't drop *Gab*. 8Chan and Gab are not the same thing.
4) Yes, I have a negative opinion of Gab. You can blame me all you want for that, or you can blame Patrick Little, Robert Bowers and other shitstains.
5) If you want me to understand how these businesses are being harmed, then a) name some others besides the poor, persecuted Gab, and b) TELL ME HOW THEY WERE FORCED TO SHUT DOWN.

Lastly, about Gab...I've been through this before with other Gab defenders. And it's always the same. "We weren't doing anything wrong, we were just celebrating free speech and we don't know why these white nationalists and neo nazis and mass shooters keep posting here, we swear!" And honestly, those arguments sound a lot like a case of WDATHKSMC.
 

Trunkage

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Hey everyone, Trunkage says I want to "Cancel Cuties", but can't quote me saying such a thing!

That why this is a lie.
No, you wouldn't say the word Cancel. But what you were doing was. Cancelling happens regularly. All the time and both sides. Just because you don't use the word, doesnt mean you didn't do it.

The Cuties thing just reminded me of the Satanic Panic. Making heavy metal evil, burning tapes and CDs, using the government to crack down on things you dont like. You know... canceling
 
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Dwarvenhobble

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OMFG...no. NO. There's nothing in CDA 230 about requiring "neutrality," political or otherwise. I don't know why people keep saying this (though I can guess) but it's fiction.

Seriously, stop. And please read up on 230 and the CDA, starting with this:


to encourage the development of technologies which maximize user control over what information is received by individuals, families, and schools who use the Internet and other interactive computer services;
Emphasis on User control on content not on the corporations controlling the content.

to preserve the vibrant and competitive free market that presently exists for the Internet and other interactive computer services, unfettered by Federal or State regulation;
Preservation of a free market. If the service is no longer offering that free market then would it not be able to be challenged?

Protection for ā€œGood Samaritanā€ blocking and screening of offensive material
Kind of implies doing so as a Good Samaritan not doing so because you dislike a certain group.

Is it the act of a Good Samaritan to suppress info only for one side but not equally apply the standards they've set?


Um What? LOL What are you on about? IF Twitter wanted to go full on Green party they could at will. They could ban any non green party content if they really wanted to. Would likely lose business for it and people would shift to competing services, but there is NOTHING saying Facebook, Twitter or any social media site has to be unbiased.

No one is stopping you or anyone else from making or using competing services though. Have at it if that is what you want to do. They are under no obligation to cater to you or anyone else for that matter though. Their house, their rules. Simple as that.
Ah but that is what people are objecting to the idea of. Fully corporate control is a terrible possible future. I just actually quoted from the Legal information institute above which points out the protections are Good Samaritan not just something given so people can act as they please.

As for "No-one is stopping you or anyone else making a competing service". Yes people actually are. Buy going to various other providers of utilities to try and prevent them being used.

Hosting services.
Security services
Payment processing
Hell literal location for the service servers.

Services these days rely on a lot of other things to work. Lets go with the "Well make it yourself" argument.

Ok you make the site yourself.
You now need to set up a server to host it yourelf.
You now need to create your own security and DDOS protection.
You now need to create your own payment processing system to get money in to afford to keep things running.
You then find you might need to build your own location to live and house the server because any number of private groups are pushing you out of where you are by denying services.
You now find you have to set up your own bank because banks are refusing to let you have accounts there.

All private entities all the way and people can and will go after them to try and stop people "Just making their own".

They very well could post where the USB was found and the date it was found on and describe some of the contents on said USB without going in to detail. Saying something like 'containing graduation photos" and have people describe to them what was on it and what type of USB it was to prove it belonged to them would be sufficient. There is no reason to post photos of what could be their dead child or something because you have no idea the circumstances of said photos. The location, date and generic description should suffice without actually invading their privacy protections.

You act like this is harder than it is, It isn't.
Yet posting a photo from it is normally the far easier thing to ensure it gets back to the right person. The person in question may have thought they lost it elsewhere so the date isn't helpful and many USB's look quite generic sometimes so how would they know it was even the one they were missing?


Huh? "Forced to shut down"? How so? And what do you mean by businesses refused to serve them?
Well I don't use Gab but I know a little about it.

First the server hosts turned it down and so they found new hosts.
Google removed it from the play store so they have to find alternative was to distribute the app.
Cloudflare I think stopped offering protection from DDOS attacks so it kept facing them
Payment providers shut down payments to it.
last I heard groups were lobbying local businesses and others to deny services (food, maintenance, banking) from the person who owns the servers Gab is now hosted and to go after the physical house that hosts the server.
 

Houseman

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1) Yes, I am focused on your claim that businesses were "forced to shut down" because YOU SAID IT.
If bushiness weren't "forced to shut down" but "harassed in a manner designed to force them to shut down", would that be any better?
Regardless, I only know of one that was "forced to shut down", that being 8chan. They may have rebranded since, but the damage was done and there are a fraction of the users left, split across various different alternative image boards. They might as well be dead.

There's also Hatreon, which at the moment, is offline thanks to Visa.

So if you want to focus on shut-down businesses instead of the anti-competitive attacks used on "go make your own" businesses, there you go.

give me other names of platforms that weren't full of racists and antisemites and were forced to shut down.
Every alternative platform is "full of racists and antisemites" because their competitors say they are, and can easily manufacture the evidence they need by creating sock-puppets.

Okay, but Cloudflare didn't drop *Gab*. 8Chan and Gab are not the same thing.
I never said they did.
Are you trying to undermine my point by focusing on technicalities or something? Are you trying to defend the efforts made to shut down competitive sites?

TELL ME HOW THEY WERE FORCED TO SHUT DOWN.
Here's a quote from earlier:

" they are demonized as being "hate sites" that serve nazis, regardless of the truth. People post CP and then anonymously report on them. People influence providers like Cloudflare and get them to stop providing CDN services, which opens them up to DDoS attacks. Services that host stop hosting them. Payment services stop allowing them to process transactions, like Paypal. Visa and Mastercard refused to do business with WikiLeaks. Google stops ranking them. Sites like reddit and twitter blacklist mention of them, that sort of thing. "
 

Dwarvenhobble

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No, you wouldn't say the word Cancel. But what you were doing was. Cancelling happens regularly. All the time and both sides. Just because you don't use the word, doesnt mean you didn't do it.

The Cuties thing just reminded me of the Satanic Panic. Making heavy metal evil, burning tapes and CDs, using the government to crack down on things you dont like. You know... canceling
So you're saying you like a film about young teens dancing sexually?
 

Houseman

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No, you wouldn't say the word Cancel. But what you were doing was.
Prove it.
Quote me.
Quote me advocating for, or implying that the government should, crack down or "cancel" Cuties.
Quote me saying or implying should be banned.

Or

Apologize for your false accusation.

Do one or the other.
 

Dwarvenhobble

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1) Yes, I am focused on your claim that businesses were "forced to shut down" because YOU SAID IT.
2) If you're not just talking about Gab, then here's a thought: give me other names of platforms that weren't full of racists and antisemites and were forced to shut down.
3) Okay, but Cloudflare didn't drop *Gab*. 8Chan and Gab are not the same thing.
4) Yes, I have a negative opinion of Gab. You can blame me all you want for that, or you can blame Patrick Little, Robert Bowers and other shitstains.
5) If you want me to understand how these businesses are being harmed, then a) name some others besides the poor, persecuted Gab, and b) TELL ME HOW THEY WERE FORCED TO SHUT DOWN.

Lastly, about Gab...I've been through this before with other Gab defenders. And it's always the same. "We weren't doing anything wrong, we were just celebrating free speech and we don't know why these white nationalists and neo nazis and mass shooters keep posting here, we swear!" And honestly, those arguments sound a lot like a case of WDATHKSMC.

Easy way to put it with a real world example and not one you'd likely expect.

In the UK Stanley Kubrick pulled A Clockwork Orange from distribution and it was effectively banned in the UK until after his death.
Before the film was pulled it was accused of being responsible for at least two murders and a rape. The argument was the films inspired people to commit said acts or cause people to stray from the straight and narrow by corrupting their good nature (yes it's nonsense but this is part of the context for this).
Stanley Kubrick publicly denounced claims his film was to blame in any way for such acts and strongly refused to pull the film and strongly fought against the idea his or anyone else's films were to blame for real life acts of violence or criminality.
Years after his death his widow revealed why he pulled the film. People who believed the film was harmful to society and was responsible for said acts happening and would could more they sent threats not against Kubrick but against his wife and daughter. Not just any threats but ones with covert pictures of his wife and daughter out and about or his daughter playing in the school playground. Threats like "Without you around who will protect them" and "You can't be there all the time, but we can be anytime".
Kubrick was given a lose lose choice. He either has to pull his film and lose that or he has to risk losing his family. It's an awful choice to have to make and either way he was forced to lose one or the other as there was no option to do nothing as do nothing would still be choosing to let the film keep going on. Never doubt how far angry activists will go to get what they want.
Can you make a company make a decision? No. You can give them a set of circumstances where they will make that choice or else though. E.G. lets say people knew where a service was located. How many injured night watchmen and destroyed facilities would they be ok with? How many arson attacks? How many attack on staff cars? How much vandalism and attacks on things linked to the building like power lines or phone lines? It's simple it's not truly "Force" it's just making it very hard for them not to give in to the demands.
 

Seanchaidh

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Prove it.
Quote me.
Quote me advocating for, or implying that the government should, crack down or "cancel" Cuties.
Quote me saying or implying should be banned.

Or

Apologize for your false accusation.

Do one or the other.
Usually I'm pretty skeptical of the idea that someone is employing a motte and bailey because that also describes just having a very precise view that others read something else into, but this is motte and bailey. Come on. You think it's dangerously close to child porn, but also you aren't saying that the government should crack down? Those two premises juxtaposed kind of seem worse than what you're being accused of in this topic, which is just being inconsistent about free speech.