Dark Souls and Its Parallels to Capitalisim in 2020

[hanselthecaretaker]

'Dark Souls' Is A Game About Living Under Capitalism In 2020

If we truly are living in the end-times, From Software's bleak fantasy world should inspire us to transcend our grim reality and forge a new path.

www.vice.com

Interesting or at least original take on it. Just have to wonder what it would take for such a broad swath of people to band together in good times vs just bad. Going beyond market systems, I recall reading the two party (being real, the others have never amounted to much) political system was always meant to divide and conquer.

 

[Dalisclock]

Jim Sterling did something like this a year ago thought experiment, to prove any game could be considered political.


The comments section is so full of Salt I could cure a pig with it.

"Get your politics out of my Dark Souls!"
"Get your Dark Souls out of my Politics!"

 

[Shadyside]

Too long didn't read. Just tell me an abridged version. I always viewed Dark Souls as embracing the inevitable cycle of nature that springs to life and will eventually decay.

 

[Silvanus]

Nah, that's ridiculous.

One describes a chain of events in which people are endlessly tricked into suffering and self-sacrifice, purely to the benefit of a small number of aloof and disinterested entities, and the constant, unwise re-use of a power source which runs on death and hollows people out, leaving them as miserable, directionless husks.

And the other is Dark Souls.

 

[Gordon_4]

That’s certainly one way to describe it. I personally thinks it’s such a long bow to draw that Robin of Locksley would have trouble with it.

 

[Buyetyen]

I watched Jim's video when it first came out. He makes a very compelling case. Dark Souls does indeed work as a critique of capitalism. Was that intentional? Who the fuck knows, who the fuck cares?

 

[Dalisclock]

I watched Jim's video when it first came out. He makes a very compelling case. Dark Souls does indeed work as a critique of capitalism. Was that intentional? Who the fuck knows, who the fuck cares?

I mean, I've heard people flat out argue Chrono Trigger was a retelling of the story of Christ, with all seriousness. And Chrono Trigger is not one of those works that felt like the creators had just finished reading a book on Kabbalah and then decided to throw a bunch of crosses in for good measure, like Xenogears or Evangelion. And then there's whatever the hell was going on in Angels Egg(other then Drugs. Lotsa Drugs).

I don't think FROM really meant it that way, but it's telling that the story is so open to interpretation that one can look at the same thing and draw many different conclusions because most of the storytelling is environmental and the rest is told through snippets of dialogue and item descriptions.

 

[Specter Von Baren]

Nah, that's ridiculous.

One describes a chain of events in which people are endlessly tricked into suffering and self-sacrifice, purely to the benefit of a small number of aloof and disinterested entities, and the constant, unwise re-use of a power source which runs on death and hollows people out, leaving them as miserable, directionless husks.

You literally just described Communism.

 

[Buyetyen]

I don't think FROM really meant it that way, but it's telling that the story is so open to interpretation that one can look at the same thing and draw many different conclusions because most of the storytelling is environmental and the rest is told through snippets of dialogue and item descriptions.

I don't put a lot of stock in authorial intent myself. Anything people make is going to be unconsciously influenced by their worldview and people are going to see those patterns and a few others that may or may not be intentional. I mean, mention David Lynch to the film student in your life and you'll hear just how out-there interpretations of media can get.

Really, if people are this invested in the details of your work, then you made something that spoke to them.

 

[Silvanus]

You literally just described Communism.

I literally didn't.

 

[Shadyside]

You literally just described Communism.

Well technically it can be argued that both capitalism and communism can cause the same outcome of slavery with extra steps. Almost everything is a copy a copy in an endless conveyor belt.

 

[Seanchaidh]

Well technically it can be argued that both capitalism and communism can cause the same outcome of slavery with extra steps. Almost everything is a copy a copy in an endless conveyor belt.

Socialism and communism are explicitly about not being slavery with extra steps. If such a result is obtained, they've failed to achieve socialism or communism.

 

[Secondhand Revenant]

If a select few are benefitted in capitalism that's seen as their just reward for making so much money. If a select few are benefitted in communism then it really failed to achieve what it set out for and those who say they support it now probably wouldn't be happy with the resulting system. In capitalism it's just a feature that the richest reap the most and suggesting they deserve less is treated as insanity and heresy.

 

[Secondhand Revenant]

Also while amusing I think it's really overthinking it to suggest it was the game's intent. Title works better as it doesn't suggest they were trying to make it such. And even then it's eh. Parallels just fits better for what they did

 

[sXeth]

I mean, I've heard people flat out argue Chrono Trigger was a retelling of the story of Christ, with all seriousness. And Chrono Trigger is not one of those works that felt like the creators had just finished reading a book on Kabbalah and then decided to throw a bunch of crosses in for good measure, like Xenogears or Evangelion. And then there's whatever the hell was going on in Angels Egg(other then Drugs. Lotsa Drugs).

I don't think FROM really meant it that way, but it's telling that the story is so open to interpretation that one can look at the same thing and draw many different conclusions because most of the storytelling is environmental and the rest is told through snippets of dialogue and item descriptions.

I had the general impression that Crono Trigger was meant to be some kind of simultation/memory loop of some external entitiy. With LAvos being some sort of disease/parasite. I dunno if that was borne out in Crono Cross or not (or if Cross could be considered canon, since it was under a completely different creative director IIRC).

 

[Hawki]

So, I haven't played Dark Souls, but I have read the article, and...I dunno, it really seems like a stretch. By the logic presented in the article, you could say that Dark Souls is a parable for pretty much anything. Capitalism? Yeah, sure. But Spectre's right about communism and socialism. Heck, you could even say it's a parable for feudalism, which might be more relevant given its level of technology. If a theme is so broad that it can stand in for anything, one has to ask whether it's a theme.

Also, minor point - again, haven't played Dark Souls, but the ending where the characters allow the light to fade...is that really meant to be optimistic? My take on it is that it's the 'true' ending, but less that there's a world of new possibilities, more "everything has its time, and it's time for this world, and humanity, to die. Whatever comes next, no-one will be around to see it."

 

[Dalisclock]

So, I haven't played Dark Souls, but I have read the article, and...I dunno, it really seems like a stretch. By the logic presented in the article, you could say that Dark Souls is a parable for pretty much anything. Capitalism? Yeah, sure. But Spectre's right about communism and socialism. Heck, you could even say it's a parable for feudalism, which might be more relevant given its level of technology. If a theme is so broad that it can stand in for anything, one has to ask whether it's a theme.

Also, minor point - again, haven't played Dark Souls, but the ending where the characters allow the light to fade...is that really meant to be optimistic? My take on it is that it's the 'true' ending, but less that there's a world of new possibilities, more "everything has its time, and it's time for this world, and humanity, to die. Whatever comes next, no-one will be around to see it."

There's a lot of ambiguity in DS about what the endings mean but what I've seen there's a general consensus that the coming of the dark was part of the natural order of things and continually re-lighting the fire over and over again was something that was never meant to happen and eventually pushed the world to the point it was completely exhausted and ready to die regardless.

No one really knows what was supposed to happen if the age of dark had been allowed to progress naturally, because as the games imply, every time an age of dark would arrive, someone would relight the flame and restart the age of fire, creating a dark/light cycle that happens over and over again until DS3 implies the age of fire is coming to an end for the last time and the world is so exhausted and ready to die that another relighting just isn't going to happen. The downside is that humanity is doomed to become undead and/or hollows in the age of dark, and I believe that's implied to be humanity's natural state(I could be wrong about this) and the age of dark we do see never looks particularly good for anybody

Granted, a lot of this is inferred because the games don't do a lot of direct referencing to each other and there's a large time gap(of unknown length) between games. There's speculation that the ending you pick doesn't really matter much because even if you don't light the flame, some other poor fool eventually will and the cycle will begin again.

Frankly, you could write a book or teach a class about the themes and meanings in the Dark Souls games. There's that much to unpack if you really want to dig into it.

 

[Dalisclock]

I had the general impression that Crono Trigger was meant to be some kind of simultation/memory loop of some external entitiy. With LAvos being some sort of disease/parasite. I dunno if that was borne out in Crono Cross or not (or if Cross could be considered canon, since it was under a completely different creative director IIRC).

The theory I've seen batted around the most is that the entity mentioned is the planet itself and the time travel is essentially a way of it trying to save itself by proxy. The time periods you visit are there because they were important in the grand scheme of things. I believe the game lends some credence to this.

Cross is a whole different thing and went in a totally different direction so it's hard to compare. It also doesn't help Cross's plot gets super convoluted around the halfway mark and never really finds its way home so even trying to figure out whats going on becomes a feat in itself.

I liked Cross and appreciated they didn't just try to make CT2 but at the same time, there are so many things that are just off about it that I can't see it as anywhere close to the same level. Even discounting the happy ending override for the first game The heros from the first game are dead and apparently its all your fault and Guardia was wiped out by a joke boss from the first game it just has too many lows to balance out it's highs.

 

[stroopwafel]

I mean, I've heard people flat out argue Chrono Trigger was a retelling of the story of Christ, with all seriousness. And Chrono Trigger is not one of those works that felt like the creators had just finished reading a book on Kabbalah and then decided to throw a bunch of crosses in for good measure, like Xenogears or Evangelion. And then there's whatever the hell was going on in Angels Egg(other then Drugs. Lotsa Drugs).

I don't think FROM really meant it that way, but it's telling that the story is so open to interpretation that one can look at the same thing and draw many different conclusions because most of the storytelling is environmental and the rest is told through snippets of dialogue and item descriptions.

To go by Miyazaki's own words he considers the world, whether it be nature or society, a generally unfriendly and unkind place. A 'wasteland' so to speak. Which is true ofcourse, we are a forlorn species. In that light I think you can consider Dark Souls themes more as a reflection on inevitability, the transcience of life, the passing of the ages and mankind's (doomed) struggle to stop the course of nature.

 

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