Soros swings at EU dissenters, and Hungary's Urban swings back - or how I stopped worrying and learned to love perpetual debt

Iron

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Visegrad group, whose prominent members Poland and Hungary have been a strong opponent inside the EU to certain policies. Mister Soros here demonstrates that these two regimes are illegitimate, since they have not upheld the rule of law, and therefore their veto powers must be opposed and ignored. Here are some tidbits from his opinion piece:


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The European Union cannot afford to compromise on the rule-of-law provisions it applies to the funds it allocates to member states. How the EU responds to the challenge to those provisions now posed by Hungary and Poland will determine whether it survives as an open society true to the values upon which it was founded.
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"
I am a committed supporter of the EU as a model of an open society built on the rule of law. Being of Hungarian Jewish origin, I am particularly concerned with the situation in Hungary, where I have been active as a philanthropist for more than 30 years.
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Hungary’s opposition parties are bravely trying to challenge Orbán by forming a common list of candidates for the 2022 general election. But their chances of success are limited because Orbán can change the rules at short notice, as he has already done several times before. Conveniently, Orbán is planning to introduce the latest changes to the electoral law while the pandemic is raging, Budapest is under curfew, and soldiers are patrolling the streets.
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Only the EU can help. EU funds, for example, should be directed to local authorities, where there is still a functioning democracy in Hungary, unlike at the national level.
"

Orban Swings back, one week later:
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Many believe that the prime minister of a country should not enter into an argument with George Soros. Their reasoning is that Soros is an economic criminal, because he made his money through speculation, ruining the lives of millions of people, and even blackmailing entire national economies. Just as governments must not negotiate with terrorists, they say, prime ministers must likewise not debate with economic criminals.
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Great forces are once again moving to eradicate the nations of Europe and unify the continent under the aegis of a global empire. The Soros network, which has woven itself through Europe’s bureaucracy and its political elite, has for years been working to make Europe an immigrant continent. Today the Soros network, which promotes a global open society and seeks to abolish national frameworks, is the greatest threat faced by the states of the European Union. The goals of the network are obvious: to create multi-ethnic, multicultural open societies by accelerating migration, and to dismantle national decision-making, placing it in the hands of the global elite.
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The network directed by George Soros has now discarded any hesitancy it may have had about open intervention. He wants to put more pressure on nation states than ever before. He is setting the peoples of Europe against one another. The network’s operational system is labyrinthine, and is present in various arenas of public life. On the payroll of George Soros are a long list of politicians, journalists, judges, bureaucrats and political agitators masquerading as members of civil society organizations. And although the billionaire accuses all his enemies of corruption, he himself is the most corrupt man in the world. He pays off and buys whoever he can – and those whom he cannot bribe will be slandered, humiliated, intimidated and destroyed by the network through its formidable weapon: the left-wing media battalions.
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Western leaders who have lived their whole lives in a world of inherited freedom and the rule of law should now listen to those who have fought for freedom and who – based on their personal life experiences – can distinguish between the rule of law and tyranny, or the rule of man. Such Western leaders must accept that in the 21st century we shall not surrender the freedom we fought to achieve at the end of the 20th century.
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Spicy.

Here is a rare opinion piece from Soros regarding the financial future of the EU:
Unfortunately this is in German, published in der spiegel. This translation is provided by google translate:
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In the corona crisis, the EU needs at least one trillion euros - and a joint financing instrument. The solution would be a "perpetual bond" that never has to be paid back.
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I suspect that the idea of perpetual borrowings was discarded because it was not envisaged when the Treaty of Rome was passed in 1957. They founded the European Economic Community. But unusual times require unusual measures. Otherwise the EU may not survive the current challenges. This is not a theoretical consideration, but the tragic reality. The coronavirus and climate change threaten not only human life, but our civilization. The European Union is particularly vulnerable because it is based on the rule of law and the mills of justiceknown to grind slowly. The coronavirus, however, moves quickly and unpredictably. That is why the EU needs quick answers and everlasting loans.
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Eternal bonds, on the other hand , for whose repayment no one is liable , have a unifying effect. They provide the EU and all of its members with financial resources that are incomparably greater than anything the budget can offer. They could help the EU meet the expectations and hopes of its citizens.
The cost-benefit ratio is so good that the financial scope would be huge. When the EU issues bonds on its own account, it can distribute money to the countries most in need, according to rules and procedures that would be jointly determined by the Commission and governments. The additional expenses do not require new legislation. But time is of the essence. A decision must be made by summer, because Italy could already be bankrupt by autumn. That would be a big blow to the EU.
"

hehehehe

ETERNAL BONDS that can NEVER be repaid, to forever be serviced by bankers.
I'm loving this timeline. Everyone is so brazen! Everything is out in the open. What's your opinion on this?
Should the Visigrad be curtailed or is a faction of bankers attempting to saddle the EU with eternal debt? How about both? Neither?
 
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stroopwafel

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ETERNAL BONDS that can NEVER be repaid, to forever be serviced by bankers.
I'm loving this timeline. Everyone is so brazen! Everything is out in the open. What's your opinion on this?
Should the Visigrad be curtailed or is a faction of bankers attempting to saddle the EU with eternal debt? How about both? Neither?
Yeah, those deficits are pretty much collective debt now. Objectively the countries carrying the brunt of that burden also profit from the E.U. the most through exports and open borders. Even if you deduct 'European taxes' from that debt there is still a hefty nett profit reaped in tax revenue. Geopolitically you also don't have that much choice. A resurgent Russia, China taking it's place in the new global hierarchy and the U.S. moving away from the post-WW2 world order. Yet military spending of individual European countries remain really low. Without Nato or E.U. most wouldn't even be able to defend their own airspace. So there is that as well.

Ultimately the E.U. remains a strong economic block that both Russia and China(and recently the U.S.) tried to unsuccesfully divide. Hungary in particular owes most to the E.U. I disagree with many of the E.U.'s economic and political policies but ultimately the reality is that in today's world you are simply too weak on your own. Espescially now with the American safety umbrella being slowly dismantled, something that already started under Obama, accelerated under Trump and will no doubt continue under Biden. The E.U. will no doubt remain a scapegoat for cheap populist rethoric though.
 

Hades

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Its a bit amusing that two wanabe dictators are holding corona funds hostage because they are grumpy the EU doesn't like them dismantling democracy....but that somehow SOROS is the bigger danger here!

Come on.

Still its really interesting how Soros is suspected by so many of secretly being the shadow dictator of the entire world. I have a feeling that if he wasn't jewish this suddenly wouldn't be the case anymore.
 

Iron

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Its a bit amusing that two wanabe dictators are holding corona funds hostage because they are grumpy the EU doesn't like them dismantling democracy....but that somehow SOROS is the bigger danger here!

Come on.

Still its really interesting how Soros is suspected by so many of secretly being the shadow dictator of the entire world. I have a feeling that if he wasn't jewish this suddenly wouldn't be the case anymore.
ETERNAL BONDS, to be repaid in perpetuity, to bind the EU financially till the rapture.

Soros is only jewish in the way that he keeps reminding people that he is jewish (case in point, the opinion piece).
 

Agema

You have no authority here, Jackie Weaver
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"Western leaders who have lived their whole lives in a world of inherited freedom and the rule of law should now listen to those who have fought for freedom and who – based on their personal life experiences – can distinguish between the rule of law and tyranny, or the rule of man. Such Western leaders must accept that in the 21st century we shall not surrender the freedom we fought to achieve at the end of the 20th century."
I dare say that George Soros, as a Holocaust survivor, has considerably more to tell us about the difference between freedom and tyranny than Viktor Orban.

What Orban is effectively arguing is that Hungary should be free from the "tyranny" of the EU, but shows by his actions that he doesn't believe the Hungarian people have a need to be free of the tyranny of whoever rules Hungary.
 

Iron

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I dare say that George Soros, as a Holocaust survivor, has considerably more to tell us about the difference between freedom and tyranny than Viktor Orban.

What Orban is effectively arguing is that Hungary should be free from the "tyranny" of the EU, but shows by his actions that he doesn't believe the Hungarian people have a need to be free of the tyranny of whoever rules Hungary.
I wouldn't take George 'fleece the jews' Soros as the regular holocaust survivor. I wouldn't go put allegations of cooperation at him, since he was just a boy at the time, but he belonged to the class of people that formed the judenrat and supervised the regular shipping of offerings. He was very fortunate.
 

Agema

You have no authority here, Jackie Weaver
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I wouldn't take George 'fleece the jews' Soros as the regular holocaust survivor. I wouldn't go put allegations of cooperation at him, since he was just a boy at the time, but he belonged to the class of people that formed the judenrat and supervised the regular shipping of offerings. He was very fortunate.
Neither Soros nor his close family were sent to a concentration camp, and there are at least hundreds of thousands of that type of Holocaust survivor; he certainly lived under a regime that saw half the Jews in its population wiped out in a few months. It's also pretty dirty to obliquely tar them as quasi-collaborators by class association, given there's no evidence they were actually were members of the Judenrat.

But I guess being called a race traitor who had it lucky is just what he deserves for being a bit liberal lefty.
 

Trunkage

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Its a bit amusing that two wanabe dictators are holding corona funds hostage because they are grumpy the EU doesn't like them dismantling democracy....but that somehow SOROS is the bigger danger here!

Come on.

Still its really interesting how Soros is suspected by so many of secretly being the shadow dictator of the entire world. I have a feeling that if he wasn't jewish this suddenly wouldn't be the case anymore.
To be fair, Soros did... well not create... nudge towards a debt crisis in the UK so he can make bank
 

meiam

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EU really should have mechanism to kick member out. Currently neither Poland nor Hungary would have any chances of being let in if they were outsider applying to get in. They should at least consider changing the voting so a majority can pass rather than needing 100%.

Although I don't see any reason to issue perpetual bond, interest rate are rock bottom, with many bonds being literally negative. You could maybe make a case if it goes toward large scale project that will results in serious increase in future productivity, but there's no such project in the work and most of the money would just be spent on things like pension, nice but ultimately bring nothing to societies. Defiently not worth saddling future generation with debts forever.
 

Iron

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Neither Soros nor his close family were sent to a concentration camp, and there are at least hundreds of thousands of that type of Holocaust survivor; he certainly lived under a regime that saw half the Jews in its population wiped out in a few months. It's also pretty dirty to obliquely tar them as quasi-collaborators by class association, given there's no evidence they were actually were members of the Judenrat.

But I guess being called a race traitor who had it lucky is just what he deserves for being a bit liberal lefty.
yikes, that backhand at the end. That isn't very nice of you, Agema. This is legitimate criticism

He ran errands for the Judenrat (imagine delivering lists of names for offerings, yeah?).
" Likewise, while Soros was, as a student, sent to run errands at the Judenrat, a council of Jews whom the Nazis forced to do their bidding, he did not round up Jewish people. In fact, per Soros’s recollection, when he was given a list of names, with instructions to tell them to report to a location from which they would be deported, his father said he should not tell them to go. "

You know, some people paid for this kind of treachery. Then again, we don't talk about it nowadays.

I stated in the beginning - he was just a boy, so I don't take this against him. But I wouldn't ignore this when you'd call him a "holocaust survivor".
 

Iron

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EU really should have mechanism to kick member out. Currently neither Poland nor Hungary would have any chances of being let in if they were outsider applying to get in. They should at least consider changing the voting so a majority can pass rather than needing 100%.

Although I don't see any reason to issue perpetual bond, interest rate are rock bottom, with many bonds being literally negative. You could maybe make a case if it goes toward large scale project that will results in serious increase in future productivity, but there's no such project in the work and most of the money would just be spent on things like pension, nice but ultimately bring nothing to societies. Defiently not worth saddling future generation with debts forever.
It is the interests of bankers and financiers (Soros as example) to saddle europeans with debts forever.
 

Revnak

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Really love the whole race traitor narrative given your whole thing is to humor every ideology one step from outright fascism due to an intense fetish for nationalism
 

Iron

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Really love the whole race traitor narrative given your whole thing is to humor every ideology one step from outright fascism due to an intense fetish for nationalism
This coming from the revolutionary fetishist
 

Revnak

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This coming from the revolutionary fetishist
I want to point out I’ve still not posted in favor of the Chileans because I feel I don’t know enough about what’s going on there, same with Guatemala. Don’t think I’ve even dropped a quick “rad” at the idea of burning down a legislature. So despite this apparently strong fetish I have, I’ve shown much more self control about it than you.

But if we must choose aesthetics with which to brand ourselves for easier marketing, gotta admit Molotovs and Che are a whole lot cooler than unironic flag fucking.
 
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Iron

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I want to point out I’ve still not posted in favor of the Chileans because I feel I don’t know enough about what’s going on there, same with Guatemala. Don’t think I’ve even dropped a quick “rad” at the idea of burning down a legislature. So despite this apparently strong fetish I have, I’ve shown much more self control about it than you.

But if we must choose aesthetics with which to brand ourselves for easier marketing, gotta admit Molotovs and Che are a whole lot cooler than unironic flag fucking.
Che.

You know better.
 

Revnak

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I'm not putting "Revolutionary Fetishist" into google image search, but I bet the results are interesting.
It all started when I was a young boy watching Revolutionary Girl Utena and decided I was really into long pink hair and swords...