Be careful. People around these parts might take that comment as a declaration of loyalty to Trump.
2019-2020 coronavirus pandemic (Vaccination 2021 Edition)
- Thread starter McElroy
- Start date
I mean, all they've been asking for is that we test it a bit more before saying it works.
Hydroxychloroquine itself doesn't really do much at all to the virus. It's the zinc that does the work and a zinc ionophore (like hydroxychloroquine) allows zinc into the cell. You can use a different zinc ionophore like quercetin that can be purchased at your local vitamin store along with the zinc.
Well, death caps are at least easily avoidable if you pay any attention to toxic species. Where i live the death cap exists, but the panther cap is way more of a problem because it is so similar to the widespread and tasty blusher.
There's no great evidence Zn2+ is the mechanism by which chloroquine is effective, it's just a hypothesis.
Viruses like CoV are taken into cells by a process called endocytosis, which puts them in small organelles called endosomes (basically, think of it them like little cargo crates). Endosomes are then usually merged with other organelles called lysosomes, which are full of catabolic enymes that break down complex biological molecules like proteins - and which will also destroy viruses. Viruses must therefore exit the endosome before it merges with a lysosome. They then "hijack" cellular machinery within the cytosol (the general fluid interior of the cell excluding its organelles) to replicate.
The evidence we have suggests chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine do increase cellular concentrations of Zn2+, but specifically it localises in lysosomes. This makes it unlikely that Zn2+ is interfering with the viruses, as it's in the "wrong" part of the cell. Furthermore, we can see from that same paper measuring the change in cellular Zn2+ uptake from 10-300micromolar, and the effects, particularly at lower concentrations, are modest. However chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine appear to be effective against viruses at much lower concentrations, where the impact on Zn2+ entry is likely to be trivial, even if it were in the "right" part of the cell.
To get an idea how much hdroxychloroquine is in a cell from therapeutic treatment, mice on a 30mg/kg dose for 28 days showed cellular concentrations of hydroxychloroquine in non-liver tissues around 1-2 micromolar. The maximum tolerated dose of hydroxychloroquine in humans is about 1200mg a day, or 20mg/kg for a 60kg human; but 200-400mg doses are more likely (~3-7 mg/kg for someone 60kg) so around 5-10 times less than the mice in that study.
The first two papers (there is other literature out there along the same lines) are using cultured cell lines so there is always the possibility that human cells in vivo may be more responsive to the drugs in terms Zn2+ entry, and that there's more Zn2+ in the cytosol. But as there are other known effects of the drugs on cellular activity (specifically, altering the pH of organelles) which may be more effective, they look more probable.
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Finland had a similar situation but handled it better in terms of what the statistics show now.
This is essentially letting a lot of people die. Fewer restrictions -> more of the population is exposed -> more healthcare workers are exposed -> more shortage in the sector -> more decisions with a heavy heart.
USA
Even worse, it appears they have a very long way to go to get to their " herd immunity" strategy, as thus far they only had like 7% of the hardest hit region develop antibodies.
A new Swedish coronavirus antibody study suggests the herd-immunity strategy isn't working
Just 7% of people in Stockholm had developed coronavirus antibodies by the end of April, research by Sweden's public-health agency found.
www.businessinsider.com
Though, I have no idea why they are surprised, this is pretty much what immunologists all over the world told them would likely be the case here. Without effective treatments readily available, you are only going to achieve " herd immunity" once you have an effective vaccine, or cause millions of people to become severely ill with long term damage or die. Not everyone who is exposed, or has illness will necessarily even develop antibodies. Each individual's immune system is different.
The idea that you are going to have an abundance of population develop antibodies without a lot of casualties in the process is terribly inaccurate and misguided. I am not sure how anyone could possibly see it as remotely ethical to intentionally expose the general population who may or may not have undiagnosed underlying health conditions at any age without taking measures to protect them. It is essential playing Russian roulette with the lives of your friends, family, neighbors, randomly having children, parents, sisters, brothers,grandparents lives at risk just for existing. It is unconscionable and horrific.
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After the Republican governor of Florida already had the medical examiners office withhold COVID-19 death toll from the public, they now fired the creator of their states COVID-19 tracking website because she refused to manipulate COVID-19 data to " drum up support for their reopening plans"
khn.org
What scares me is that I am afraid this is the mindset of the white house at this time and thus why Trump has been refusing to address the shortages and incompetence of his actions here and now just going to pretend it is over as we have bodies piling up. GOP States still pushing to return to business as usual when they have not even peaked yet.
www.houstonchronicle.com
Florida Health Department Worker Claims She Was Fired For Refusing To Manipulate COVID Data - KFF Health News
Developer Rebekah Jones, who created a dashboard for the state's COVID-19 data, said she was fired because she was ordered to censor some information, but refused to "manually change data to drum up support for the plan to reopen." Meanwhile, Florida isn't the only state in the hotseat over...
khn.org
What scares me is that I am afraid this is the mindset of the white house at this time and thus why Trump has been refusing to address the shortages and incompetence of his actions here and now just going to pretend it is over as we have bodies piling up. GOP States still pushing to return to business as usual when they have not even peaked yet.
Texas reports massive surge in COVID-19 cases in single day
Texas officials reported more than 1,800 new positive cases of COVID-19 the single...
Their models are wrong because they expected 60-70% of the people to get infected, and that was never going to happen on any time scale. That doesn't mean acquired immunity doesn't slow the spread of the virus.Even worse, it appears they have a very long way to go to get to their " herd immunity" strategy, as thus far they only had like 7% of the hardest hit region with antibodies.
A new Swedish coronavirus antibody study suggests the herd-immunity strategy isn't working
Just 7% of people in Stockholm had developed coronavirus antibodies by the end of April, research by Sweden's public-health agency found.
Everywhere is opening up. If somewhere hasn't peaked yet, it's because they prevented a major outbreak in the first place. You can't expect places to lock down for multiple years because they're better insulated from the virus.
No one said they were expecting people to stay locked down for years. What IS expected however, is providing adequate protection to the general public to be able to slow the spread. Where is the government provided PPE for all of those being forced into situations where they can be exposed? Widely available testing? Contact tracing? Oh yea they are doing NONE of that here and we are expecting this to surge now. The only thing that slowed the virus here was the lockdown, they are not implementing adequate measures to slow it after lifting the lockdown. THAT is the problem here. You can't have it both ways. You either lockdown, or you provide the resources needed to end the lockdown safely . Just ending the lockdown and pretending like you are doing something does not end well here. We are still having mass PPE shortages here. You still cannot access hand sanitizer. WHY has the government not yet provided what was needed to do this right? You cannot expect people to wear masks when they are unable to buy masks. You cannot expect people to be able to use hand sanitizer if there is none available to the public. Until they resolved that major obstacle, they should have pressured the federal government to do their job and opened up the nation in stages as supplies were made available via Defense production act. This has not yet happened, nor is it happening. Failing to do so will necessarily result in many more permanent disabilities and deaths that could have been prevented by doing what is necessary to protect the people.
To make it worse, you can be denied unemployment benefits if you are high risk or live with someone who is high risk and refuse to return to work. They have made a government website to report workers who do not return after the lockdown is lifted so they can have their unemployment stripped forcing them to risk their lives and risk the lives of their loved ones.
New State Websites Make It Easier for Employers to Snitch
Characterizing fear of COVID-19 infection as ‘unemployment fraud,’ states have begun to crack down on workers instead of supplying them with needed benefits.
prospect.org
When we have workers being forced to sleep in their cars to protect their families, which then makes them even more vulnerable, not being able to have good rest and hygiene in your car, and then increasing the numbers of people this is happening to all across the US this without having resources made available to both protect the workers and their families is unethical.
EMS Sleeping In Cars To Protect Families From Coronavirus: Pols
Lawmakers are asking the mayor and the FDNY to give EMS workers alternate housing so they don't have to risk bringing coronavirus home.
patch.com
The government has not been doing any of what is necessary to make this safer for everyone involved and putting so many more at risk against their will due to them intentionally forcing people in high risk groups to be exposed.
came here to say this. I would limit this statement to people on this forum, because there is bound to be some idiot out there rubbing his hands together at the thought of lockdown for years. But there are so few asking this that we could ignore it.
I'd also point out that the term lockdown keeps getting used. A lockdown is barbed wire, street blocked, troop making people stay at home. A shut down is businesses being shut down, whether by circumstance or government order. It tends not to involve troops and there is way more freedom. I wonder which one we are closer too?
But, you know, a term being misappropriated wouldnt be a sign of political machinations, could it? Deliberately striking fear into the citizenry so the act in certain ways... Which is funny, because I seem to remember a bunch of people (the exact same people) thinking that this virus was made to scare conservatives and taking away our lives. Interesting...
Wanna bet? We had a cruise ship as a petri dish. 80% didn't get sick. New York got wrecked, 80% didn't get sick. And those are exceptionally densely packed places. If we did literally nothing, chances are pretty good 80% wouldn't get sick. And I don't mean asymptomatic carriers, I mean no infection at all. May as well post this again:
No kidding, you are correct, the US didn't actually do a lock down. China actually does do lockdowns. The US just does very loosely advised stay at home orders that are rarely enforced. Even in areas where they tried to shut down businesses, many didn't even do that either. If they actually did a lockdown in the US in the first place, there would be a lot less people dead and permanently disabled from it right now. Instead we have idiots throwing 600 ppl parties in parks and shooting people while we have other armed idiots storming government buildings simply because their state governments are trying to save lives of Americans who are not ready to die yet increasing the liklihood they will.
Every person who refuses to wear a mask, refuses to social distance, refuses to help keep their friends, family and neighbors safe is one more person responsible for that death toll increasing.
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I have better than a degree, I have no background at all. People with degrees in any subject know a lot more to begin with, but are slow to acknowledge answers that don't align with their years of research, and I frankly don't have that problem, which is advantageous in a novel situation.
Scientists once spent a lot of time mapping out the complicated movement of the planets and stars around the Earth, and were not particularly happy with Copernicus or Galileo making their field of expertise obsolete.
"which was not certified by peer review" On every single page for good reason.
The Cruise ship was not a scientific study. You do not know what measures were taken on the ship to keep people safe. You are not accounting for numerous variables that can impact infection rate. When the virus spread's it changes as it comes into contact with different people, animals, chemicals, plants, everything in the environment that it comes into contact with can affect how it adapts. You are not even comparing the different strains of SARS-CoV-2 that were spread at different rates. Having tunnel vision on a cruise ship when this has now spread all over this world is extremely short sighted and overlooking the many variables we have to examine to be able to keep up with an ever changing virus.
Investigators Say They’ve Found More Contagious Strain of SARS-CoV-2
Investigators say that they identified 14 mutations that affect the spikes on SARS-CoV-2.
www.infectioncontroltoday.com
COVID-19 May Be Much More Contagious Than We Thought
A critical scientific question that bears on policies for fighting the pandemic
Scientists say a now-dominant strain of the coronavirus could be more contagious than original
A mutation in the novel coronavirus has led to a new strain viewed as more contagious than the virus that emerged from China, according to a new study.
www.latimes.com
Much has changed since the cruise ship, and the strain on the cruise ship was not even the strain that spread through most of the US.
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