A few thoughts about January 6, 2021

BrawlMan

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Thaluikhain

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Agreed, what a pussy. Shows how shallow and full of false bravado some people can be.
I, for one, am severely disillusioned with people wearing face paint and a hatt with horns who decide to attack the White House because a useless President told them to.
 
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Agema

You have no authority here, Jackie Weaver
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Not that I disagree, but I think some belief in conspiracy theory is not necessarily so much a sense of being shafted or socially exlcuded, but that it does give them a sense of being special - to believe in a "truth" other sheeple are too stupid to get, part of privileged club of people who "get it" and find mutual comradeship.
 
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happyninja42

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Not that I disagree, but I think some belief in conspiracy theory is not necessarily so much a sense of being shafted or socially exlcuded, but that it does give them a sense of being special - to believe in a "truth" other sheeple are too stupid to get, part of privileged club of people who "get it" and find mutual comradeship.
Yeah a lot of the appeal, as I've heard it explained, and given the people I know IRL that indulge conspiracy theories eagerly, it is a bit of both. It's partly an ego stroking of "I know The Truth that the sheeple refuse to accept!" but it's also something of a way for their brains to come up with a world model that makes sense, to them at least. They are suspicious of everything, and assume the worst, and they often feel that there is a Big Organization that is secretly running everything, on a scale that is simply not feasible in reality. But THAT makes more sense, and is more comforting for them, than "Sometimes people are assholes, and sometimes really shitty things happen to people." and any number of actual reasons for things.
 
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The Rogue Wolf

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So, as a possibility, what if Trump had wanted enforcement out of the way so he could give his protestors freer rein and cause a scene?
I think he honestly believed that it would work- that "his people" would seize the Capitol building and force everyone to make him President for life. That's how all of his dictator buddies would do it!
 

Agema

You have no authority here, Jackie Weaver
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I think he honestly believed that it would work- that "his people" would seize the Capitol building and force everyone to make him President for life. That's how all of his dictator buddies would do it!
Mm. Tricky.

His phone calls (e.g. to Raffensperger) and his demands Mike Pence throw the result suggest he was willing to attempt extreme, absurd and arguably illegal tactics. If he seriously convinced himself they would work he's really pathological, but more likely he was desperately trying what he knew were long shots. Personally, I think he did it mostly just because it was an incredible ego trip to have people love him so much that they would desecrate democracy by sacking the Capitol for him, with a side order of cruel, vengeful pleasure in making people he hated have to flee the mob. And that's why people with his sort of personality disorder self-sabotage, because he's too blinded by a need for immediate gratification.

He's actually done that a lot, but mostly in much smaller ways. Take the thing about his stubby fingers. Most people wouldn't care about being accused of it that much, and they certainly wouldn't spend decades sending photos trying to prove otherwise to the journalist who wrote it. Most people would realise how weird that would make them seem, and also how counterproductive ("The Donald doth protest too much, methinks", to paraphrase Shakespeare.) But not someone with a personality disorder, who cannot help themselves.
 

SilentPony

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What a snowflake.

And he's 33, lives with his mother. He is the epitome of what Trump would call "a loser." Wonder why he loves Trump so much.
in regard to the organic food thing, that's probably not true and its attempt to create sympathy from the court. Maybe his lawyers think there's no way he's not going to jail, so they're creating a narrative early on for why he needs to be in a special facility, not a regular federal prison.
 

Casual Shinji

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I think he honestly believed that it would work- that "his people" would seize the Capitol building and force everyone to make him President for life. That's how all of his dictator buddies would do it!
Or they were just utterly ignorant of the consequences since they've been enabled for at least four years now. You look at that video where Ashli Babbit gets shot, and there's a clear few of a security officer with a gun drawn in their direction on the otherside of the barricaded door these people are trying to force open. One person even repeatedly shouts 'he's got a gun', yet the crowd continues their assault. Then Babbit seemingly tries to climb over the crowd to the half smashed window of one of the doors, the officer on the otherside fires a shot in her direction, killing her, and suddenly the crowd responds in shock at this turn of events. Like this outcome wasn't totally staring them in the face. They were literally staring down the barrel of a gun, and were then surprised that it went off.

A lot of them seemed strengthed by the belief that Trump - their Commander - would keep them safe by virtue of being on their side. He's THE President of the United States after all. You can see in much of the footage where they clash with the police that many of these people are utterly confounded that the police would stop them since they consider the cops to be on their side, and entering the Capitol to be their right. It's THEIR building after all, THEY own on it.

It's a case of completely delusional entitlement.
 
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CaitSeith

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You know 4chan has a lefty board and 8chan has a leftwing pol board right?
Right, and their presence didn't persuade the far-right out of the violent rhetoric, nor has beneficed the rest of the political spectrum in any positive nor meaningful way.
 

CaitSeith

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Not that I disagree, but I think some belief in conspiracy theory is not necessarily so much a sense of being shafted or socially exlcuded, but that it does give them a sense of being special - to believe in a "truth" other sheeple are too stupid to get, part of privileged club of people who "get it" and find mutual comradeship.
Pretty much. We need a comparison of how many of the conspiracy theories theorists were originally socially excluded BEFORE drinking the Kool-Aid, and how many became shafted AFTER starting spouting non-sense designed for getting them socially excluded.
 

happyninja42

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Agreed, what a pussy. Shows how shallow and full of false bravado some people can be.
I kind of like the idea of him refusing to eat to the point that he has to be given IV nutrients. Given he's a Qanon fuckwad, he'll probably claim they are simultaneously trying to inject him with Lizard People DNA to make him part of the collective, AND install a tracking chip.
 
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happyninja42

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Pretty much. We need a comparison of how many of the conspiracy theories theorists were originally socially excluded BEFORE drinking the Kool-Aid, and how many became shafted AFTER starting spouting non-sense designed for getting them socially excluded.
I'd say it's probably a bit of column A, bit of B. They were probably always somewhat off socially, and were so because of their interest in conspiracies and other out there topics, which further isolated them, which served to reinforce their conspiracy theories "they know I know!" kind of stuff, which makes them suspicious of others, so they isolate, and thus fill their time with more conspiracies, etc etc. Vicious cycle.
 
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CaitSeith

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I'd say it's probably a bit of column A, bit of B. They were probably always somewhat off socially, and were so because of their interest in conspiracies and other out there topics, which further isolated them, which served to reinforce their conspiracy theories "they know I know!" kind of stuff, which makes them suspicious of others, so they isolate, and thus fill their time with more conspiracies, etc etc. Vicious cycle.
That's why I want to know the precise count. Besides, very few people have 100% of their actions and opinions 100% socially accepted 100% of the time.
 

happyninja42

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That's why I want to know the precise count. Besides, very few people have 100% of their actions and opinions 100% socially accepted 100% of the time.
I never said there was some 100% thing.
But there is a difference in realizing that "eh, some people you just don't agree with on things" and "they are ALL involved in a global conspiracy by lizard people to run child sex dungeons under pizza parlors, AND injecting us with tracking devices in our vaccinations" Normal people realize that not every agrees. Conspiracy nutjobs read that as proof they are "onto something!"
 
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Dalisclock

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in regard to the organic food thing, that's probably not true and its attempt to create sympathy from the court. Maybe his lawyers think there's no way he's not going to jail, so they're creating a narrative early on for why he needs to be in a special facility, not a regular federal prison.
If it's real it's a recent thing. He's apparently a Navy Vet and I guarantee you he wasn't getting 100% organic in the Navy if he was ever deployed or eating from the Dining facilities on base(he probably would have for his rank). Fuck, we were happy if the food was McDonalds quality underway. Yes, I'm aware what that implies.

Then again, based on his record that was made public (Made E-2 and served two years....as a supply clerk), his military career wasn't exactly anything to write home about either. For context, any given sailor is more or less guaranteed to make E-3 in 2 years.....unless there's some really special circumstances going or he was such a dirtbag his superiors denied what should be an auto-promote to E-2 and later E-3(E-4 is where promotion starts getting tough).

And I'm not saying there aren't good supply clerks or that it's not an important job, it's not exactly one that requires a lot of brains or skills either.
 
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happyninja42

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If it's real it's a recent thing. He's apparently a Navy Vet and I guarantee you he wasn't getting 100% organic in the Navy if he was ever deployed or eating from the Dining facilities on base(he probably would have for his rank). Fuck, we were happy if the food was McDonalds quality underway. Yes, I'm aware what that implies.

Then again, based on his record that was made public (Made E-2 and served two years....as a supply clerk), his military career wasn't exactly anything to write home about either. For context, any given sailor is more or less guaranteed to make E-3 in 2 years.....unless there's some really special circumstances going or he was such a dirtbag his superiors denied what should be an auto-promote to E-2 and later E-3(E-4 is where promotion starts getting tough).

And I'm not saying there aren't good supply clerks or that it's not an important job, it's not exactly one that requires a lot of brains or skills either.
Yeah, I would bet good money his DD 214 shows General Under Honorable Conditions (which is NOT the same as Honorable by the way, to anyone curious, usually means you did something to fuck up, but it wasn't too bad, like rape, etc, but still a fuck up). Or OTH (Other Than Honorable, where you definitely DID do something bad and they want you gone, but maybe keep it quiet a bit for the good of the military, but not bad enough to warrant Bad Conduct/Dishonorable).

Given the shit he's a part of, I would hazard a guess it was "due to personality issues in conflict with service" , or a similar line that translates to "He's fucking nuts, and we discharged him because he was a disruption" I've lost count of the number of vets like him I've seen over the years.
 

Xprimentyl

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Yeah, I would bet good money his DD 214 shows General Under Honorable Conditions (which is NOT the same as Honorable by the way, to anyone curious, usually means you did something to fuck up, but it wasn't too bad, like rape, etc, but still a fuck up).
I read that underlined part and mentally omitted the first comma which led me to believe you suggested rape was an example of "you did something to fuck up" that "wasn't too bad." Fortunately, I read it back and caught my error before I penned a response in misunderstanding. Not on topic at all, just found it funny and wondered how many of us get into these discussions and might miss a little thing that changes everything, lol. As you were!
 

Dwarvenhobble

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Right, and their presence didn't persuade the far-right out of the violent rhetoric, nor has beneficed the rest of the political spectrum in any positive nor meaningful way.
Well the Capitol Hill protests were allegedly planned on facebook. The closest to violence 4chan gets is convincing people drinking milk is a secret sign you're a KKK member or driving Shia Labeouf so insane he ends up assaulting one of his own supporters and being taken away by police.