The wall may well be finished as Department of Homeland security considers green lighting finishing Trumps project

[Eacaraxe]

Even if there was an insistence on controlling land border there are way better solutions...

Keywords being, "even if".

Okay. You got me. He said Mexican IMMIGRANTS were rapist. So different...

I'm just going to say it: he wasn't wrong at the time, save on who's doing what. That's all down to the cross-border human trafficking industry; in other words, coyotes. Surprise of surprises, sexual predation, coerced drug muling, physical assault and torture, and murder do indeed happen in human trafficking. Crazy, I know.

He got it right by 2020, but by then the US mass media in its brazen, gratuitous, and wildly-profitable crusade to exceptionalize Trump and lay all American sin on his back, managed to brain worm the American populace to the point basic fact about immigration and crime has been long forgotten. Which is precisely how last year, there were a bunch of "educated" and "pro-immigration" "liberals" who didn't know what a fucking coyote was when it came up in the debates, racing to social media to make braying jackasses of themselves for clout.

And the problem with engaging Mexican police to "enforce" immigration, is they, cartels, and coyotes are all in bed together. It's paying the fox to watch the henhouse. It's all part and parcel of policy that has the appearance of border enforcement but in fact does no such thing, because the US economy is frankly reliant upon illegal, or at least abusive and exploitative in the case of work visa programs, immigration to function.

 

[Kae]

I'm just going to say it: he wasn't wrong at the time, save on who's doing what. That's all down to the cross-border human trafficking industry; in other words, coyotes. Surprise of surprises, sexual predation, coerced drug muling, physical assault and torture, and murder do indeed happen in human trafficking. Crazy, I know.

He got it right by 2020, but by then the US mass media in its brazen, gratuitous, and wildly-profitable crusade to exceptionalize Trump and lay all American sin on his back, managed to brain worm the American populace to the point basic fact about immigration and crime has been long forgotten. Which is precisely how last year, there were a bunch of "educated" and "pro-immigration" "liberals" who didn't know what a fucking coyote was when it came up in the debates, racing to social media to make braying jackasses of themselves for clout.

And the problem with engaging Mexican police to "enforce" immigration, is they, cartels, and coyotes are all in bed together. It's paying the fox to watch the henhouse. It's all part and parcel of policy that has the appearance of border enforcement but in fact does no such thing, because the US economy is frankly reliant upon illegal, or at least abusive and exploitative in the case of work visa programs, immigration to function.

I mean it's not really right, because the vast majority of immigrants are just regular people and nothing more, also while do mention that it is a show, because it is, it's ultimately propaganda and nothing more, you forget to mention the American government is as in bed with the cartels as the Mexican one, the whole war thing is real but they both need it, which is why the USA funds a lot of cartels and cartels have been found with American weapons as in weapons that belong to the American government, ultimately the USA isn't interested in winning the war against the cartels because they need it to keep Latin America destabilised so that they can more easily exploit us.

 

[Eacaraxe]

I mean it's not really right, because the vast majority of immigrants are just regular people and nothing more, also while do mention that it is a show, because it is, it's ultimately propaganda and nothing more, you forget to mention the American government is as in bed with the cartels as the Mexican one, the whole war thing is real but they both need it, which is why the USA funds a lot of cartels and cartels have been found with American weapons as in weapons that belong to the American government, ultimately the USA isn't interested in winning the war against the cartels because they need it to keep Latin America destabilised so that they can more easily exploit us.

Pretty fuckin' much. There's a reason I keep harping about immigrants' countries of origin and their reason for immigrating every time it comes up.

 

[Trunkage]

"And some, I assume, are good people." Don't overstate your case, it only hurts your argument.

You're going to have to point where I claimed he said all Mexicans were rapist.

 

[tstorm823]

You're going to have to point where I claimed he said all Mexicans were rapist.

Your overstated case was not that he said all Mexicans were rapists, but that he said all "Mexican IMMIGRANTS" were rapists. Which I'll concede, you didn't explicitly say "all", but you also didn't say "some", which makes you worse at communicating than Donald Trump.

 

[Trunkage]

Your overstated case was not that he said all Mexicans were rapists, but that he said all "Mexican IMMIGRANTS" were rapists. Which I'll concede, you didn't explicitly say "all", but you also didn't say "some", which makes you worse at communicating than Donald Trump.

Why would I say some? He didn't

He only said some were 'good'. Maybe you could assume that 'some' were rapist. But you could also claim he meant most. Regardless, I'm just repeating what he said.

If you want me to add 'some were good' to qualify it, sure. You're going to have to point out how that quantifier makes the original statement better.

 

[tstorm823]

Why would I say some? He didn't

He did, though admittedly too late in the statement. Why would you say "and some are good" afterwards? To clarify, because he realized he had just suggested they're all bad. Because without the clarification, that's what he, and you, did.

If I say "pizza tastes bad", the natural meaning is all pizza. If I mean to same some pizzas taste bad, I should say "some pizzas taste bad". And maybe I accidentally say "pizza tastes bad", when I mean to say "some", and follow up with "well some are actually good". What I can't do, is be uppity because I said "pizza tastes bad" without qualifying the statement, and a listener reasonably believed I was referring to all pizza.

 

[Piscian]

I really don't get the wall thing, I live near the border and there's literally a part of the wall that has a door on it closed with an easily cut with pliers chain, not to mention that even I could jump it with a ladder and rope and I'm not even in great shape, seems like a waste of money, they should probably just abandon the whole project, it's completely useless, besides we already don't cross unless we're desperate because we know the border patrol can murder us even if we're in México and completely get away with it even if there was no reason for the aggression and the person wasn't even crossing the border.

It's all about optics. I would have been perfectly happy with Crystal Pepsi being a thing.

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

And once again, Biden is just Trump Lite and he and his administration have done literally nothing to prove me wrong.

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

Yah what now?

Donald Trump: Mexico is bringing drugs, crime and rapists to the US

Donald Trump's remarks about Mexico from his announcement speech for his candidacy for president.

www.usatoday.com

Okay. You got me. He said Mexican IMMIGRANTS were rapist. So different...

As to pay the army of Mexico to police its borders. After all tearing up of treatise Trump did, no one trust the US to fulfil on their end of their bargain. No one is going to think Biden is going to make things better. Biden has just stop drilling holes in the dam. There's still all the holes from the last 4 years and Biden is doing diddly squat about fixing any of that

Some, Illegal

 

[Trunkage]

He did, though admittedly too late in the statement. Why would you say "and some are good" afterwards? To clarify, because he realized he had just suggested they're all bad. Because without the clarification, that's what he, and you, did.

If I say "pizza tastes bad", the natural meaning is all pizza. If I mean to same some pizzas taste bad, I should say "some pizzas taste bad". And maybe I accidentally say "pizza tastes bad", when I mean to say "some", and follow up with "well some are actually good". What I can't do, is be uppity because I said "pizza tastes bad" without qualifying the statement, and a listener reasonably believed I was referring to all pizza.

Oh, man. I love being told how evil I am... when all I did was quote someone.

Here's your problem. Trump qualified his Mexican are racist thing by talking about #NotallMexicans.... so assuming he meant only some Mexican are rapists, he jailed hundreds of thousands of people based on a stereotype he made up. Or he claimed that most mexican were rapists despite the fact that anything like that would be an automatic deportation and significantly reduces immigrants crime stats.

But then we look at his policy. He seem to put ALL of the immigrants he could find into detention. So... he didnt at all me #NotallMexican. He can clearly see that through his actions

When he 'qualified' his statement, he didn't mean it. Otherwise the his ACTIONS would have been different. See, I didn't take his speech as the only piece of evidence. I took what he did into account as well. His policies spoke loud and clear

 

[Trunkage]

Some, Illegal

Is this the part where you use laws that are made up in the US but no one else regards as true?

Mexico, nor many other countries, see them as illegal. In fact, many in the US dont think they are illegal and they have whole states ans cities deliberately working against the Federal government.

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

Is this the part where you use laws that are made up in the US but no one else regards as true?

Mexico, nor many other countries, see them as illegal. In fact, many in the US dont think they are illegal and they have whole states ans cities deliberately working against the Federal government.

You have communities in the woods with stockpiles of ammo playing at soldier too so I don't think "People in the USA do this" is a good argument for it being a good idea.

Hell it would be far better if they didn't come over in a non authorised manner I'd assume because it means they could get benefit, they could get worker protections and it would mean companies couldn't screw over people by using them as exploitable labour.

But hey cheap labour tends to benefit the big companies quite a bit so maybe that's just fine........../s

 

[tstorm823]

Oh, man. I love being told how evil I am... when all I did was quote someone.

Here's your problem. Trump qualified his Mexican are racist thing by talking about #NotallMexicans.... so assuming he meant only some Mexican are rapists, he jailed hundreds of thousands of people based on a stereotype he made up. Or he claimed that most mexican were rapists despite the fact that anything like that would be an automatic deportation and significantly reduces immigrants crime stats.

But then we look at his policy. He seem to put ALL of the immigrants he could find into detention. So... he didnt at all me #NotallMexican. He can clearly see that through his actions

When he 'qualified' his statement, he didn't mean it. Otherwise the his ACTIONS would have been different. See, I didn't take his speech as the only piece of evidence. I took what he did into account as well. His policies spoke loud and clear

I never called you evil, I just think you communicated poorly. And I think you have a gross misunderstanding of the US-Mexico border situation. The image of an immigrant being hunted down and thrown in jail is not most of the reality of the situation. This is no longer the era where the people crossing the border are primarily grown men trying to sneak into the country for work. The majority of people being detained are crossing the border and turning themselves into CBP to plead for asylum, and they're held in custody awaiting a court appearance. These people cross the border knowing this will be the case, and decided for themselves that they're safer in CBP custody than trying to wait for permission to enter the US.

 

[Trunkage]

You have communities in the woods with stockpiles of ammo playing at soldier too so I don't think "People in the USA do this" is a good argument for it being a good idea.

Hell it would be far better if they didn't come over in a non authorised manner I'd assume because it means they could get benefit, they could get worker protections and it would mean companies couldn't screw over people by using them as exploitable labour.

But hey cheap labour tends to benefit the big companies quite a bit so maybe that's just fine........../s

Its funny how people keep saying this... and then do nothing but bend over backwards to give big companies more benefits. It's almost like they don't actually 1. understand what they say. 2. Are just using it as an excuse so they can take out immigrants. Because none of this is the immigrants fault. Yet they are always the target

 

[Trunkage]

I never called you evil

I was being flippant here. I was being ridiculous because this went ridiculous. I add the whole quote but was still criticised. I didnt hide any of it. I add all the context and was still stole I left things out or didnt understand.

I have now pointed out that his qualification actually paints him as way worse than the one liner. As normal with Trump, providing the whole context paints him worse than the one liners the media pulled out to focus one. Quoting Trump is saying, 'Mexican's are rapist' is better than saying Trump pretends that innocent Mexican are rapist so they can lock them up to energize his base. One is a delusion. The other is deliberate targeting innocent for political gain. (well, I actually don't know if you think its worse. My opinion is that the latter is worse.)

Like, we haven't even talked about the fact that when he says Mexicans here, he doesn't mean Mexicans at all. He just lumping a bunch of South Americans together and pretending they're Mexicans. Or the fact that this quote assumes that liberals want rapist and criminals to be let into America... otherwise that would be a relatively solved issue. Or why a criminal would do any of that walking across the country or try to sneak past Border Protection. They're criminals. They just jump on a plane, its way easier. Or that I understand that Trump is being lumped with a bunch of shit caused by Eisenhower to at least Reagan but pretending the problem is Mexico's is going to make the problem go away. Or how his rhetoric here paints Mexico as a really unstable criminal country thus SHOULDNT the US be taking refugees... which defeats his own narrative.

But anyway, I'm getting side tracked. I was being flippant

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

Its funny how people keep saying this... and then do nothing but bend over backwards to give big companies more benefits. It's almost like they don't actually 1. understand what they say. 2. Are just using it as an excuse so they can take out immigrants. Because none of this is the immigrants fault. Yet they are always the target

I added ./s at the end of the big companies like for a reason (it's in spoiler text).

I've been pretty consistent about saying how it's a bullshit idea giving private companies more power and control without regulations to keep them in check and actually keep them working at least somewhat for people.

It's not the immigrants fault thought if you want to play at faults any actual talent leaving said countries is harmful and stealing from that country preventing it from actually developing more and a number of nations basically reliant on immigrants and "Brain draining" other countries because it's cheaper than training people already living in said country is rather colonialist in nature as it's exploiting the people as a resource and the economic conditions of said countries to basically take advantage of them.

With illegal immigrants you could argue more so about protection from exploitation as gangs will look to exploit their illegal status as a way to get them working for almost nothing or pressuring them into more illicit activities and denies them many of the protections of the USA. You want something to change push to streamline the system to allow those who want to come to come legally if you care so otherwise all you're really doing is helping hand said desperate people to those who can and will exploit them and denying them protections. Also no let everyone in and declare them legal without any checks isn't a way to do it, things take time even now.

 

[Eacaraxe]

...he jailed hundreds of thousands of people based on a stereotype he made up.

He didn't make that stereotype up. He wasn't even alive in the century that stereotype was made up. That shit dates back to the period between the Mexican-American War and Spanish-American War. Hell, he wasn't even born in the 20th Century when that shit hit its apex in the migrant waves following the Mexican Revolution.

But y'know, we conveniently don't talk about those parts of US history in polite company. We wouldn't want the culturally sensitive among us to race to the fainting couches over the revelation black Americans weren't the only ethno-national group subject to mass lynchings or anything. God forbid we reveal to the populace the first "war on drugs" was cause celebre for mass racism against Mexicans.

 

[Kwak]

We wouldn't want the culturally sensitive among us to race to the fainting couches over the revelation black Americans weren't the only ethno-national group subject to mass lynchings or anything. God forbid we reveal to the populace the first "war on drugs" was cause celebre for mass racism against Mexicans.

Why do you imagine this would happen? Who is doing that?

 

[Avnger]

Why do you imagine this would happen? Who is doing that?

No one. It helps him to feel smarter than everyone else to imagine it though.