The Ma'khia Bryant shooting

[Cicada 5]

On the day of the Derek Chauvin verdict, a 16-year-old girl named named Ma'Khia Bryant was shot and killed by a police officer in Columbus. While this news was met with outrage at first, it's starting to sound like this shooting may have actually been justified given the circumstances.

The girl's mother, Paula Bryant, and the Franklin County Children Services had identified the teen as Ma'Khia Bryant.
In a series of clips from police body camera video, the girl is seen holding a knife during a tussle with another young woman. An officer arrived at the scene and opened fire when the girl appeared to attempt to stab a second woman.
"She's a ---- kid," a man at the scene tells the officer after four shots were fired. "Damn, are you stupid."
Ma'Khia fell to the ground, the knife by her side.
"She came at her with a knife," the officer who fired his weapon is heard saying.
The situation unfolded rapidly, according to clips from the body cameras of three officers on the street. Ma'Khia was holding a knife in her right hand and charged a woman dressed in pink -- who turned to her side as the teen appeared to attempt to stab her. That's when the shots rang out.
Officers attempted life saving measures "almost immediately," said interim Police Chief Michael Woods, who said the first medics were on scene in six minutes.

In the video, one officer is heard asking, "Where is she hit?" The officer starts lifesaving measures. "Stay with us," he tells the girl, asking bystanders her name.
"Stay with us, Ma'Khia," he implored.
Officials asked the community to wait for all the facts to come out.
If an officer is "faced with someone employing deadly force, deadly force can be the response," Woods told reporters.
Asked about the policy on the use of Tasers versus handguns, Woods declined to comment on the specific incident but said: "If there's not deadly force being perpetrated on someone else at that time, an officer may have the opportunity to have cover distance and time to use a Taser."
"But if those things are not present, and there's an active assault going on in which someone could lose their life, the officer can use their firearm to protect that third person," he added.
Ginther said the Bureau of Criminal Investigation will look into actions of the officer.
"I understand the outrage and the emotion about this incident," Department of Public Safety Ned Pettus Jr. said at a news conference. "The video shows there is more to this. It requires us to pause."

Ohio officials release more body cam video of fatal police shooting of Black teen and urge community to await the facts | CNN

Columbus, Ohio, officials released additional body camera video on Wednesday of a police officer fatally shooting a Black teen who charged two females with a knife.

edition.cnn.com

 

[laggyteabag]

So there is another on/off conversation regarding this topic in the Derek Chauvin thread, and I just feel like im going crazy here.

I'm a lefty guy, and I follow a lot of other lefty people on Social Media, and Im seeing all of the same things that we saw with George Floyd, and countless others.

Marches. Protests. Virtue signalling "say her name" posts. Authority figures coming out to say how much of a tragedy this is. The works.

And I'm just sat here like - well, she tried to stab someone!

I get it, she was 16, and that is far too young for anyone to die - but if the officer waited any longer, it is quite likely that she would have seriously hurt the girl that she was standing in front of.

No matter which way I look at this, I cannot see this as anything other than a regrettable, but completely justified response from the police officer - and not some senseless escalation that we have seen so much of, recently.

Im seeing so many people mourning the life of someone who was moments away from really hurting someone, and I feel like im going nuts thinking that maybe we shouldn't be.

Maybe Im wrong.

I don't know with this one.

 

[Agema]

Maybe Im wrong.

You're not. She went for another girl with a knife in her hand; it was a proportionate response given the risk of harm.

It is a tragedy, though.

 

[happyninja42]

So there is another on/off conversation regarding this topic in the Derek Chauvin thread, and I just feel like im going crazy here.

I'm a lefty guy, and I follow a lot of other lefty people on Social Media, and Im seeing all of the same things that we saw with George Floyd, and countless others.

Marches. Protests. Virtue signalling "say her name" posts. Authority figures coming out to say how much of a tragedy this is. The works.

And I'm just sat here like - well, she tried to stab someone!

I get it, she was 16, and that is far too young for anyone to die - but if the officer waited any longer, it is quite likely that she would have seriously hurt the girl that she was standing in front of.

No matter which way I look at this, I cannot see this as anything other than a regrettable, but completely justified response from the police officer - and not some senseless escalation that we have seen so much of, recently.

Im seeing so many people mourning the life of someone who was moments away from really hurting someone, and I feel like im going nuts thinking that maybe we shouldn't be.

Maybe Im wrong.

I don't know with this one.

I agree. I've always found the blanket "they're just a kid" or "they're an old person" justification for how all actions against them are wrong, to be fairly insane. 1. Weapons are a thing, and the whole point of weapons, are to make someone more lethal than they naturally are. And weapons are very easy to get in the US, of all kinds, and we're REALLY good at making them as lethal as possible. Hell it's a fucking selling point most of the time. 2. I recall how physically capable I was at 16, and if I had been mentally inclined to want to hurt people, I could've hurt people, easily. Give me a weapon? Fucking forget it.

It's all about context, and each situation is unique. I am sad she is dead, but it's tempered by the fact that she was clearly trying to kill another girl (likely over something really fucking stupid, because teenager), WHILE cops were there. This isn't a case of her being compliant and restrained, and the cops overreacting.

 

[SilentPony]

SNIP

I think for this one the outrage is less "Cops are lying and just wanted to waste the black person" and more "How come when there's a white guy with an AR actively shooting people, the police somehow manage to take him alive, but when its a black person with a knife they have to put 4 rounds into their back to stop them?"

 

[BrawlMan]

All I want to know is what led to her using that knife on the girl in the first place. What the hell happened in that house? Why weren't there any adults to try and stop it before getting the police involved, if possible? I know it sucks, but it is a justified shooting.

 

[Cicada 5]

I think for this one the outrage is less "Cops are lying and just wanted to waste the black person" and more "How come when there's a white guy with an AR actively shooting people, the police somehow manage to take him alive, but when its a black person with a knife they have to put 4 rounds into their back to stop them?"

In this case, she was in mid lunge with a knife aimed at another person. If there ever was a justified police shooting, this was it.

 

[CM156]

In this case, she was in mid lunge with a knife aimed at another person. If there ever was a justified police shooting, this was it.

Yes, knives are extremely dangerous. Had a non-LEO intervened with the use of deadly force, based on the information we have so far, it would also likely have been justified.

 

[Thaluikhain]

So there is another on/off conversation regarding this topic in the Derek Chauvin thread, and I just feel like im going crazy here.

I'm a lefty guy, and I follow a lot of other lefty people on Social Media, and Im seeing all of the same things that we saw with George Floyd, and countless others.

Marches. Protests. Virtue signalling "say her name" posts. Authority figures coming out to say how much of a tragedy this is. The works.

And I'm just sat here like - well, she tried to stab someone!

I get it, she was 16, and that is far too young for anyone to die - but if the officer waited any longer, it is quite likely that she would have seriously hurt the girl that she was standing in front of.

No matter which way I look at this, I cannot see this as anything other than a regrettable, but completely justified response from the police officer - and not some senseless escalation that we have seen so much of, recently.

Im seeing so many people mourning the life of someone who was moments away from really hurting someone, and I feel like im going nuts thinking that maybe we shouldn't be.

Maybe Im wrong.

I don't know with this one.

I'm with you on that. Unfortunately, this sort of well-meaning, but misguided stuff crops up all the time.

Doesn't help that the objections in this case (lethal force was warranted, they were posing an immediate threat) sounds exactly like what's claimed in every other case ever, only this time it's actually true.

 

[SilentPony]

In this case, she was in mid lunge with a knife aimed at another person. If there ever was a justified police shooting, this was it.

I agree. It was a dangerous, violent situation. But the question still stands how was this a more dangerous and immediate threat than a white active shooter with a loaded gun actively shooting people?
That's what I think the outrage is. When its a black person its always a lethal situation, when its a white person show some restraint and take them alive.

 

[Thaluikhain]

I agree. It was a dangerous, violent situation. But the question still stands how was this a more dangerous and immediate threat than a white active shooter with a loaded gun actively shooting people?
That's what I think the outrage is. When its a black person its always a lethal situation, when its a white person show some restraint and take them alive.

Possibly, but I fear it's people just assuming the worst of police. Not for no reason, of course, a quite understandable mistake, but a mistake nonetheless.

A white active shooter generally isn't arrested unharmed when they are 2 seconds away from murdering people, after all, they'd have to give themselves up (though, of course, be given the opportunity to do so).

 

[Revnak]

We still only know about a very tiny window of events, but based on those it sounds like a “reasonable” shooting if any non-cop had done it. If I had to guess, people are still mad not merely because it’s a kid, but because they feel certain there’s shit that’s not being said. I’m not in that community so I won’t comment on why they’re so confident on that.

 

[bluegate]

Lesson for today; Don't try to stab, ergo kill, a person in front of a cop.

 

[tippy2k2]

So there is another on/off conversation regarding this topic in the Derek Chauvin thread, and I just feel like im going crazy here.

I'm a lefty guy, and I follow a lot of other lefty people on Social Media, and Im seeing all of the same things that we saw with George Floyd, and countless others.

Marches. Protests. Virtue signalling "say her name" posts. Authority figures coming out to say how much of a tragedy this is. The works.

And I'm just sat here like - well, she tried to stab someone!

I get it, she was 16, and that is far too young for anyone to die - but if the officer waited any longer, it is quite likely that she would have seriously hurt the girl that she was standing in front of.

No matter which way I look at this, I cannot see this as anything other than a regrettable, but completely justified response from the police officer - and not some senseless escalation that we have seen so much of, recently.

Im seeing so many people mourning the life of someone who was moments away from really hurting someone, and I feel like im going nuts thinking that maybe we shouldn't be.

Maybe Im wrong.

I don't know with this one.

I agree with all of this (like in that other thread where this topic kind of cropped up)

That said, I think so many people now are just so used to the cops lying that even when there is pretty convincing evidence in front of us that this is one of those times where the use of lethal force was likely justified, they still assume the police are hiding something from us. I have a hard time blaming them for this attitude even as we all saw the "Police Report" for George Floyd and his "medical emergency".

We have pretty damning evidence that Ma'khia Bryant intended to gut the girl in pink like a fish and had the cop hesitated even a few seconds it would have happened but people have been burned by the "official" report so many times that they almost just refuse to believe that a cop can actually use lethal force in a situation that actually does call for it...

 

[Baffle]

Im seeing so many people mourning the life of someone who was moments away from really hurting someone, and I feel like im going nuts thinking that maybe we shouldn't be.

I think you can still mourn the loss of a child's life, even if their own actions led to it. I know nothing about this case beyond what people are saying, and I hear from people whose opinions I trust that it's probably justified. Still a tragedy to mourn though, and also important to find out how it all came about.

 

[Piscian]

So there is another on/off conversation regarding this topic in the Derek Chauvin thread, and I just feel like im going crazy here.

I'm a lefty guy, and I follow a lot of other lefty people on Social Media, and Im seeing all of the same things that we saw with George Floyd, and countless others.

Marches. Protests. Virtue signalling "say her name" posts. Authority figures coming out to say how much of a tragedy this is. The works.

And I'm just sat here like - well, she tried to stab someone!

I get it, she was 16, and that is far too young for anyone to die - but if the officer waited any longer, it is quite likely that she would have seriously hurt the girl that she was standing in front of.

No matter which way I look at this, I cannot see this as anything other than a regrettable, but completely justified response from the police officer - and not some senseless escalation that we have seen so much of, recently.

Im seeing so many people mourning the life of someone who was moments away from really hurting someone, and I feel like im going nuts thinking that maybe we shouldn't be.

Maybe Im wrong.

I don't know with this one.

My answer is that humans, especially teenagers are the dumbest creatures on earth. I'm pretty sure 8 year old me had more sense than 16. I just don't believe honestly any kid under 25 should be expected to make informed decisions, let alone at 16. If we want kids to be that way then we should lower all age requirements for everything and give them full rights as adults.

A. There were extenuating circumstances. This was not a psychopath stabbing people it was an actual fight in progress. I don't think the cop was trained or equipped to deal with it.
B. I think the officer used an excessive amount of force. He shot her 4 times when a taser would have been more effective when shooting her at all. I realize it's a lot to ask in this day and age, but he was close enough that he could have physically intervened.
C. I think as people everyone is responsible and failed. This kids life already sucked. I've been there. I'm not crying murder for the officer, but I do think his actions were emblematic of a system that punishes the poor and impoverished. I bet if I tried hard enough I could find the same circumstance where a celebrity tried to stabbed somebody and the police grabbed them or intervened rather than turning them into swiss cheese. What I'm saying is that I think this kid died because their life didn't matter in the first place. The cop "took out the trash" and that's heartbreaking.

 

[Xprimentyl]

I think you can still mourn the loss of a child's life, even if their own actions led to it. I know nothing about this case beyond what people are saying, and I hear from people whose opinions I trust that it's probably justified. Still a tragedy to mourn though, and also important to find out how it all came about.

I don't really want to get into yet another discussion of killings by police of minorities, but again, I feel non-lethal force was an option here. Not excusing the girl's actions or making her a martyr; I wasn't there, so I can't say with any certainty what "should" or "could" have happened, but if the officer was reacting to the situation, I feel a taser might have been enough? I mean, you're pulling a trigger either way; why not pull the trigger that incapacitates in lieu of the one that kills? He chose the latter... four times. Even if four bullets was the answer, why did he target center mass? Last I heard, a bullet to the leg or arm is enough to at the very least inconvenience a violent person long enough to restrain them to face the consequences of their actions. Just saying, if we can manage to arrest mass shooters with assault rifles, I think a teenaged child with a knife would be supremely more manageable. But we'll defer to the cops as always; she "shouldn't have," right?

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

She was trying to murder someone with a knife, right?

 

[Casual Shinji]

Whether it was jusitified is a bit questionable, but it certainly wasn't a case of a black man getting police murdered because he had an air freshener hanging from his rear view mirror. Which I guess shows how low our standard for what constitutes good policing has fallen.

 

[thebobmaster]

Even if four bullets was the answer, why did he target center mass? Last I heard, a bullet to the leg or arm is enough to at the very least inconvenience a violent person long enough to restrain them to face the consequences of their actions.

I can't really comment on the rest of your post, but this part frustrates me every time I see someone say it. Police, or anyone with gun training, is taught that if you are going to shoot, you aim for center mass. Why? Because it's a bigger target. You aim for an arm or a leg, you may incapacitate the target if you hit them...or you might miss entirely, and oops, you just hit a random bystander. In addition, it's not like shooting someone in the arm or leg is guaranteed non-lethal. Just the opposite, given that you have a major artery or vein in each leg and arm, and given how much smaller limbs are compared to torsos, the chances of at least damaging the artery or vein grows quite a bit.