Dr. Fauci “not convinced” coronavirus developed naturally

hanselthecaretaker

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*mods feel free to edit/delete - just noticed it posted in the main ‘rona thread*


This essentially mirrors what the former CDC director said. Have to wonder what they’ll ultimately discover if/when they ever get to the bottom of it all.
 

Trunkage

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*mods feel free to edit/delete - just noticed it posted in the main ‘rona thread*


This essentially mirrors what the former CDC director said. Have to wonder what they’ll ultimately discover if/when they ever get to the bottom of it all.
This doesn’t surprise me. Nor would it not occurring naturally, or in this moment Fauci making it up to appease certain people. My trust in most institutions were almost non-existent before the start of 2020
 

SilentPony

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I mean yeah, duh. That's what the scientists were saying the entire time, but because Trump called it the Wuhan Virus liberals just had to take the opposite stance.

I think it was 2016 the Virologist lab in Wuhan said they were working on creating an even more infectious strain of the Coronavirus, and US diplomats said the lab was notoriously unsafe in its practices. And analysis of the Covid-19's protein structure found unique proteins not found in other Covid strains, but are found in HIV.
To the people who were listening to the scientists and not the talking heads it was always believed it developed in a lab.
 

gorfias

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The whole thing makes me feel all the more black pilled.
 
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Phoenixmgs

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This doesn’t surprise me. Nor would it not occurring naturally, or in this moment Fauci making it up to appease certain people. My trust in most institutions were almost non-existent before the start of 2020
I mean yeah, duh. That's what the scientists were saying the entire time, but because Trump called it the Wuhan Virus liberals just had to take the opposite stance.

I think it was 2016 the Virologist lab in Wuhan said they were working on creating an even more infectious strain of the Coronavirus, and US diplomats said the lab was notoriously unsafe in its practices. And analysis of the Covid-19's protein structure found unique proteins not found in other Covid strains, but are found in HIV.
To the people who were listening to the scientists and not the talking heads it was always believed it developed in a lab.
Pretty much both of these combined. The fact that basically every story about this a year back was "experts" saying that is was literally impossible for this to be man-made was not science in the least. You really can't trust much if that's the type of dialog we have that basically put people who said it was possible it was from a lab on equal par with flat-earthers.
 

ObsidianJones

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I mean yeah, duh. That's what the scientists were saying the entire time, but because Trump called it the Wuhan Virus liberals just had to take the opposite stance.

I think it was 2016 the Virologist lab in Wuhan said they were working on creating an even more infectious strain of the Coronavirus, and US diplomats said the lab was notoriously unsafe in its practices. And analysis of the Covid-19's protein structure found unique proteins not found in other Covid strains, but are found in HIV.
To the people who were listening to the scientists and not the talking heads it was always believed it developed in a lab.
You semi-misunderstand.

A lot of liberals understood and believe this virus was man-made. As a progressive who lost from it, I'm an example of just that sort of thing.

What a lot of liberals wanted to prevent, however, was the cult's knee-jerk reactions to their Puppet Master's words. Covid fueled Racism is a thing. A horrible thing that logical people could sidestep, but we weren't dealing with logical people back then, were we? People who take umbrage over attempts to save their lives.

More over, this is the plague of our lifetimes, and Trump made it into a racial slur. More over did he deny it was anything and pretended it was going to magically fade away and no one was going to suffer because of it.

In short, Trump took every avenue to make this situation the absolute worse it could possibly be. Like I've said before, if Trump took it seriously and did what he could to save lives, I wouldn't have minded if he was re-elected. He would have at least shown leadership. However, he stoked racial hatred and made it policy to put us at risk.
And that's why I took the 'opposite stance'. Because it was the only logical stance to take.
 

Phoenixmgs

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You semi-misunderstand.

A lot of liberals understood and believe this virus was man-made. As a progressive who lost from it, I'm an example of just that sort of thing.

What a lot of liberals wanted to prevent, however, was the cult's knee-jerk reactions to their Puppet Master's words. Covid fueled Racism is a thing. A horrible thing that logical people could sidestep, but we weren't dealing with logical people back then, were we? People who take umbrage over attempts to save their lives.

More over, this is the plague of our lifetimes, and Trump made it into a racial slur. More over did he deny it was anything and pretended it was going to magically fade away and no one was going to suffer because of it.

In short, Trump took every avenue to make this situation the absolute worse it could possibly be. Like I've said before, if Trump took it seriously and did what he could to save lives, I wouldn't have minded if he was re-elected. He would have at least shown leadership. However, he stoked racial hatred and made it policy to put us at risk.
And that's why I took the 'opposite stance'. Because it was the only logical stance to take.
And how much harm is done by people being disenfranchised by official messaging and not believing actual science later?
 

happyninja42

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And how much harm is done by people being disenfranchised by official messaging and not believing actual science later?
I don't know, ask the republican party about that. They've made their bed with actively disregarding "science" at every level, openly scoffing it and those who use it to try and advise best courses of action. They are famous for listening to "talking heads" namely their Glorious Leader and religious figure heads, who babble bullshit, contrary to established, confirmed science, because they were told it was BS.

Besides, learning that this is man made, doesn't change how the response to it should've been. And whether it was man made or natural, the fact is, that the conservative party, and republican citizens, fucking ignored just about every single precaution and safeguard advised by science. So this would hardly have changed how they reacted to it. All it would've done was make their anti-asian bigotry likely be more widespread than it already was. Because they probably would've been encouraged, by the talking head trump, to go out there and do it.
 

Generals

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What are people rambling about here... Fauci isn't saying he's convinced it's man made. He just isn't convinced it isn't. It's not the same.
A lot of scientists have been more and more vocal about the fact they do not buy the official Chinese version and demand more transparance.
But what the scientific community isn't doing is claiming it's man made. There are actually three hypotheses: the official one (that it jumped from an animal to humans), that it is a natural virus which escaped from a lab and that it is a "man-made" virus which escaped from a lab. The latter one seems to be the least likely according to the scientific community. But scientists are now urging we take into consideration all possibilities as long as China keeps on hiding data and there is no solid evidence of the "official version". Taking into consideration all possibilities doesn't equate to just accepting it was man made.
 

CM156

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What are people rambling about here... Fauci isn't saying he's convinced it's man made. He just isn't convinced it isn't. It's not the same.
A lot of scientists have been more and more vocal about the fact they do not buy the official Chinese version and demand more transparance.
But what the scientific community isn't doing is claiming it's man made. There are actually three hypotheses: the official one (that it jumped from an animal to humans), that it is a natural virus which escaped from a lab and that it is a "man-made" virus which escaped from a lab. The latter one seems to be the least likely according to the scientific community. But scientists are now urging we take into consideration all possibilities as long as China keeps on hiding data and there is no solid evidence of the "official version". Taking into consideration all possibilities doesn't equate to just accepting it was man made.
Yeah, this just reads like typical and prudent scientific skepticism, stating that as long as something can't be ruled out, it cannot be disregarded.
 

CriticalGaming

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Where is that Picard gif of him going "Mild Shock."?

I think a lot of stuff is going to come out about this virus in the next year or two. Reports of inaccurate testing, inaccurate fatality reports, government influence over hospital reporting, all kinds of shit, false new reports, lies, deception, you know.....typical stuff. 🤷
 

Phoenixmgs

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I don't know, ask the republican party about that. They've made their bed with actively disregarding "science" at every level, openly scoffing it and those who use it to try and advise best courses of action. They are famous for listening to "talking heads" namely their Glorious Leader and religious figure heads, who babble bullshit, contrary to established, confirmed science, because they were told it was BS.

Besides, learning that this is man made, doesn't change how the response to it should've been. And whether it was man made or natural, the fact is, that the conservative party, and republican citizens, fucking ignored just about every single precaution and safeguard advised by science. So this would hardly have changed how they reacted to it. All it would've done was make their anti-asian bigotry likely be more widespread than it already was. Because they probably would've been encouraged, by the talking head trump, to go out there and do it.
Yeah, it wasn't important during the pandemic because it doesn't help to solve the problem, which is why I never really cared about it much. In the long run, it could be of importance though. Though putting fake science out there I believe does more harm than good because how many people are truly going to get made at asian people here for a mistake that happened in China? And are you really gonna stop word from getting out that it's a possibility it's from a Chinese lab? That's a big fat NO. All the messaging mishaps over the entire pandemic did more harm than their intended good because people get mad when you bullshit them.

Everyone here is saying it is well known it was man made, yet back in February 2020 the genome of SARS-CoV2 had been catalogued and showed no signs of human tampering but only the kind of alterations one would expect from natural evolution. https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/22221751.2020.1733440 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0820-9.pdf

I swear, I will never understand how quickly the wind turns on these things. Especially when no new information has surfaced to seriously refute previous scientific findings.
Would the former CDC director and Fauci say man-made is a possibility if it wasn't? The story isn't that Fauci believes it's likely to be man-made, just that there's a possibility.

What are people rambling about here... Fauci isn't saying he's convinced it's man made. He just isn't convinced it isn't. It's not the same.
A lot of scientists have been more and more vocal about the fact they do not buy the official Chinese version and demand more transparance.
But what the scientific community isn't doing is claiming it's man made. There are actually three hypotheses: the official one (that it jumped from an animal to humans), that it is a natural virus which escaped from a lab and that it is a "man-made" virus which escaped from a lab. The latter one seems to be the least likely according to the scientific community. But scientists are now urging we take into consideration all possibilities as long as China keeps on hiding data and there is no solid evidence of the "official version". Taking into consideration all possibilities doesn't equate to just accepting it was man made.
The former CDC director's logic as to why he thinks it's man-made is how attuned it was at the start to be transmissible in humans, which makes logical sense. I don't know the genetics of it obviously but I doubt if you can 100% prove it's natural genetically, you'd have such high level medical people saying man-made is a possibility. The question also is how much do we even know about genetics to know if it could or could not come about naturally, it is still a new field.
 

SilentPony

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I mean the people who think its a naturally evolved virus are kinda the conspiracy theory ones, not the ones who think its from a lab.

2005 Wuhan Institute of Virology announces they're going to begin experiments on Sars-Covid for the purposes of finding a vaccine.
2015 Wuhan Institute of Virology announces they're researching how to infect human HeLa immune cells with Sars-Covid
2018 Wuhan Institute of Virology announces they've successfully found Sars-Covid antibodies in human subjects in villages near Horseshoe bat caves, bats are then started to be used in testing
2018 US diplomats send cable home that warns Wuhan Institute of Virology is slacking in their safety procedures, operating at BSL-2 meaning face masks and PPE when they should be operating at BSL-4 full body suits and warn of potential outbreak.
November 2019 several workers at Wuhan Institute of Virology report pneumonia like symptoms, related to new "unknown" Covid strain.
December 2019 Covid strain found in general public in Wuhan.
February 2020 Kusamu Center of Biological Sciences finds HIV proteins in amino acids of now known Covid-19. Proteins that specifically infect human HeLa immune cells.

So is it 1000% provable? No, nothing is. But the ones who think "Oh yeah Randy Marsh fucked a bat and that's how we got here" really are more the conspiracy theorists.
 

Gergar12

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I am still undecided by "gain-of-function research ". In essence, you research diseases, make new viruses more lethal than natural-based variants, and then make a vaccine.

Risky, but may be necessary, I just wouldn't trust some countries with dubious safety standards, that and humans are by nature error-prone.
 
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CriticalGaming

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I am still undecided by "gain-of-function research ". In essence, you research diseases, make new viruses more lethal than natural-based variants, and then make a vaccine.

Risky, but may be necessary, I just wouldn't trust some countries with dubious safety standards, that and humans are by nature error-prone.
Well they do it under the guise of "medical" research, because technically nobody is allowed to research viruses as Bioweapons.

At least until Umbrella shows up.
 

Generals

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I mean the people who think its a naturally evolved virus are kinda the conspiracy theory ones, not the ones who think its from a lab.

2005 Wuhan Institute of Virology announces they're going to begin experiments on Sars-Covid for the purposes of finding a vaccine.
2015 Wuhan Institute of Virology announces they're researching how to infect human HeLa immune cells with Sars-Covid
2018 Wuhan Institute of Virology announces they've successfully found Sars-Covid antibodies in human subjects in villages near Horseshoe bat caves, bats are then started to be used in testing
2018 US diplomats send cable home that warns Wuhan Institute of Virology is slacking in their safety procedures, operating at BSL-2 meaning face masks and PPE when they should be operating at BSL-4 full body suits and warn of potential outbreak.
November 2019 several workers at Wuhan Institute of Virology report pneumonia like symptoms, related to new "unknown" Covid strain.
December 2019 Covid strain found in general public in Wuhan.
February 2020 Kusamu Center of Biological Sciences finds HIV proteins in amino acids of now known Covid-19. Proteins that specifically infect human HeLa immune cells.

So is it 1000% provable? No, nothing is. But the ones who think "Oh yeah Randy Marsh fucked a bat and that's how we got here" really are more the conspiracy theorists.
None of what you says necessarily involves a man-made virus. A natural virus with which experiments are conducted can also escape from a lab.
And I don't think anyone here says it must have come from a bat (or other animal). There are only two sides in this topic: those who say there are multiple possibilities and more research is required and than those who claim it must be man-made.

But in the end it doesn't truly matter. Whatever the option is the real one, the conclusion will always be the same: we still got fucked by the Chinese government which through lies and deceit tried to hide and subsequently minimise the problem. Ultimately this lead to more than 3 million dead and trillions worth of economic damage. China should be forced to pay compensations to all the countries badly hit by Covid 19. (but we know that won't ever happen)