Dr. Fauci “not convinced” coronavirus developed naturally

[ObsidianJones]

*snips*

*snips*

I'm just messaging you both at the same time. Feel free to both respond.

Trump officials did sound the coronavirus alarm. They just don’t work there anymore.

The dire message coming from former administration officials often stood in contrast to the upbeat narrative emanating from the White House.

www.politico.com

The ominous message coming from former administration officials often stood in contrast to the upbeat White House narrative. As people like Bossert and Gottlieb pushed for the administration and public to recognize the virus’s disruptive potential, those immediately around the president publicly echoed Trump’s refrain that everything would soon return to normal. The disconnect is perhaps an example of the evolution of Trump’s administration — dissenting voices have fallen away in favor of those more willing to toe the Trump line.

A former administration official who worked with Gottlieb said the ex-FDA chief “saw pretty early on that people weren’t taking this seriously. And I can’t say if he was talking about the administration or the public at large, but he was trying to sound the alarm.”

On Twitter and TV, Gottlieb, Bossert and Cohn, among others, struck an urgent tone, while the president insisted the virus was “very much under control in the USA,” even predicting in late February that the number of cases would be close to zero “within a couple of days” and falsely claiming that a vaccine would soon arrive. As of Thursday, the number of cases had sailed past 1,000 and a vaccine remains at least a year away.

Dr Birx Admits Trump White House 'Censored' Real COVID Data (Video) - TheWrap

"Someone out there or someone inside was creating a parallel set of data and graphics that were shown to the president," former White House Coronavirus Task Force coordinator tells "Face the Nation"

www.thewrap.com

Dwarfen, you can post every bit of data you can find that shows wrong science. That's fine. Someone can easily read that and come to the same conclusion as Trump. There's no argument there.

But the problem is, Trump KNEW the truth and chose to downplay it. Per his own words again. He didn't have wrong data and went with it. He had correct data and decided against it for reasons of Politics. Whatever the reason, he cited percentages to Woodard of how much more deadly Covid is versus the flu, and went on TV days later saying the Flu was much worse.

This is actually what we're arguing. Trump knew the truth, and decided to lie. He struck down real science, and propped up people who would say what he want. He fired officials who told the truth. And you're arguing that there are other people who got it wrong as well? Again, Trump didn't get it wrong. He Knew. And he decided to lie.

And we all know that red meat is basically a disease that we put on a bun. A doctor will tell you that, as well as another doctor telling you that red meat is fine. A doctor will tell you to avoid alcohol, while another will tell you the benefits of a glass of red wine a day. Climate Change is real, Climate change is false. You get the deal. None of them have anywhere near the authority of the President of the United States. At the time, one of the most powerful countries in the world. The country with supposedly the best minds, the best people, and all the information. And if the President, whose jobs was supposed to be directly to serve at America's best interests says there's nothing to fear... people who trust in the Government and the Nation will not fear. And that has been measured, as we saw.

Republicans trust Trump more than the CDC for accurate info on the coronavirus, a new poll shows

A majority of Americans (56%) don't trust Trump for accurate info on coronavirus, while 44% said they do trust him, per a new CBS News/YouGov poll.

www.businessinsider.com

And nearly 600,000 of United States Citizens died because of it.

If Biden was presented with the same scenario, did the same thing, and caused the same amount of death, I would want his head on a plate as well. I don't care about Parties, I care about people.

Now, I'm curious. Would you two be so diligent in finding ways to excuse Biden as you do with Trump?

Oh, and before I forget Phoenix, He suggested or offered the idea of Bleach and UV during a White House coronavirus task force briefing. It's a proposterous idea that was rightly laughed away by most right minded individuals.

For others? Who look to someone like Trump for leadership?

Calls To Poison Centers Spike After The President’s Comments About Using Disinfectants To Treat Coronavirus

Words have consequences. It’s as simple as that, and words coming from the President of the United States matter.

www.forbes.com

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

Yah what?

You think no one knew before 2016?

Trump wasn't the one telling people mostly lol

 

[Trunkage]

Trump wasn't the one telling people mostly lol

Im pretty sure people were pointing out that Trump wasn’t the ‘wholesome family man’ that some evangelical conservatives pretend he was. (And yes, he didn’t bring it up.) So no. It’s not surprising it came up in the election.

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

I'm just messaging you both at the same time. Feel free to both respond.

Trump officials did sound the coronavirus alarm. They just don’t work there anymore.

The dire message coming from former administration officials often stood in contrast to the upbeat narrative emanating from the White House.

www.politico.com

Dr Birx Admits Trump White House 'Censored' Real COVID Data (Video) - TheWrap

"Someone out there or someone inside was creating a parallel set of data and graphics that were shown to the president," former White House Coronavirus Task Force coordinator tells "Face the Nation"

www.thewrap.com

Dwarfen, you can post every bit of data you can find that shows wrong science. That's fine. Someone can easily read that and come to the same conclusion as Trump. There's no argument there.

But the problem is, Trump KNEW the truth and chose to downplay it. Per his own words again. He didn't have wrong data and went with it. He had correct data and decided against it for reasons of Politics. Whatever the reason, he cited percentages to Woodard of how much more deadly Covid is versus the flu, and went on TV days later saying the Flu was much worse.

This is actually what we're arguing. Trump knew the truth, and decided to lie. He struck down real science, and propped up people who would say what he want. He fired officials who told the truth. And you're arguing that there are other people who got it wrong as well? Again, Trump didn't get it wrong. He Knew. And he decided to lie.

And we all know that red meat is basically a disease that we put on a bun. A doctor will tell you that, as well as another doctor telling you that red meat is fine. A doctor will tell you to avoid alcohol, while another will tell you the benefits of a glass of red wine a day. Climate Change is real, Climate change is false. You get the deal. None of them have anywhere near the authority of the President of the United States. At the time, one of the most powerful countries in the world. The country with supposedly the best minds, the best people, and all the information. And if the President, whose jobs was supposed to be directly to serve at America's best interests says there's nothing to fear... people who trust in the Government and the Nation will not fear. And that has been measured, as we saw.

Republicans trust Trump more than the CDC for accurate info on the coronavirus, a new poll shows

A majority of Americans (56%) don't trust Trump for accurate info on coronavirus, while 44% said they do trust him, per a new CBS News/YouGov poll.

www.businessinsider.com

And nearly 600,000 of United States Citizens died because of it.

If Biden was presented with the same scenario, did the same thing, and caused the same amount of death, I would want his head on a plate as well. I don't care about Parties, I care about people.

Now, I'm curious. Would you two be so diligent in finding ways to excuse Biden as you do with Trump?

Oh, and before I forget Phoenix, He suggested or offered the idea of Bleach and UV during a White House coronavirus task force briefing. It's a proposterous idea that was rightly laughed away by most right minded individuals.

For others? Who look to someone like Trump for leadership?

Calls To Poison Centers Spike After The President’s Comments About Using Disinfectants To Treat Coronavirus

Words have consequences. It’s as simple as that, and words coming from the President of the United States matter.

www.forbes.com

Again Trump downplayed it because the last thing anyone likely wanted would be absolute panic.

Hell the hope at the time and even the evidence until mid February from the WHO was claims of it not being able to spread well person to person or needing prolonged contact or exposure to spread.


Here's the CDC at the end of January

Coronavirus Disease 2019

CDC provides credible COVID-19 health information to the U.S.

www.cdc.gov

The WHO wasn't even putting out guidelines about mass gatherings until 14th of February

Timeline: WHO's COVID-19 response

Use our interactive timeline mapping WHO's COVID-19 response against global case numbers to see how WHO has taken action, using filters for information, science, leadership, advice, response and resourcing.

www.who.int

Was Trump getting the information? We can't really say because again a lot of official sources were saying it wasn't that big a problem early on. Being quite honest here a number of doctors suggesting it could be bad and to prepare were dismissed as conspiracy theorists, cranks or just accused of drumming up fear due to racism against China.

How much more info Trump really would have access to is anyone's guess. He may have worried it could be worse and had say 1 of his team of Medical health policy advisers warn him but if the rest were saying it would be fine it would only be Trump being concerned about it but just a potential not a probable at that point and again this is Trump I think even he on some level knows he really doesn't know that much about this stuff to make a call which at the time would have gone against the Science on the table.

The spike in poison control wasn't that huge from what I remember of the data and one of the main cases blown up in the media was a lifelong democrat voting woman with a history of domestic violence who claimed she saw the chemical in fish tank cleaner and happened to pour it in her and her husbands tea but mysteriously only in very small trace amounts in her own.

As for defending Biden, I did initially with his call for unity but expressed scepticism as the to sincerity of it but defended him trying. Also he seems to say so little these days there's nothing to defend him over he just quietly goes back on election policies or slightly changes then so it's not really what people were voting for lol.

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

Im pretty sure people were pointing out that Trump wasn’t the ‘wholesome family man’ that some evangelical conservatives pretend he was. (And yes, he didn’t bring it up.) So no. It’s not surprising it came up in the election.

Yeh people were cause he'd already had a divorce and was being framed as very much not the Christian family values politician.

 

[Trunkage]

Yeh people were cause he'd already had a divorce and was being framed as very much not the Christian family values politician.

I think the bigger problem is thinking they would care. They showed, 40 years ago, that they would pick a non-evangelical president over the most evangelical US president ever as long as they were anti-abortion.

It was a futile attempt at pointing out evangelical hypocrisy.

 

[Agema]

Because china doesn't care if a segment of their population dies off, since they're overpopulated anyway. Look at who the virus targeted. The elderly. Right now, chinese banks are able to make massive investments in foreign companies and markets because their older civilians have invested their saving in the banks. But there's a problem here. China has very little in the way of social services. Elderly people have to save money for retirement. Right now, they're investment generation is getting ready to reach retirement age. When that happens, there will be a massive withdrawal from chinese banks as retirees remove their money. This will slow chinese growth, and hurt them economically. But what happens if that generation dies off in large numbers? Perhaps due to a pandemic? Either their younger heirs recieve the money, or it goes to the chinese government. It secures the money for another generation of banking. Meanwhile, that same virus spreads on a global scale, lowering stock prices, and crashing the world economy. Which then allows china to invest at a far higher rate, and control the global economy. All of this plays into the hands of the chinese government. I mean, look at their response. They bought up masks on mass from other countries, and then resold them at a higher price. And they were defective! So they capitalized on the pandemic while also sabotaging us to maximize casualties. Not to mention their involvement with the WHO. The saddest part of this is that the chinese people are the ones who had to pay for their governments machinations. And the anti-chinese racism that spread in america because if the virus. Deplorable.

This doesn't make sense. Why make a virus to clear out oldsters, and then clamp down on it so hard to stop it spreading?

Also, it's just overlooking the simple basics that this is a respiratory virus, which tend to be vastly more dangerous to the elderly. Well, frankly, the vast majority of illnesses tend to be more dangerous to the elderly, because the elderly tend to be less healthy.

And yet we've had multiple viral "outbreaks" from china for decades.

Yes, but this is perfectly explainable by circumstance. High population and population density, relatively poor hygeine standards and weak healthcare system, high explosure to wild animals (e.g. wet markets), and that the sort of jungle terrain prevalent around southern China and south-east Asia are disease-generating hotspots.

And yet, what caused so many of these pandemics? Chemical warfare. What caused the black death? The Mongols using infected carcasses to infect a besieged city. It's the same here, except instead of a city, it's the global economy. The advantage of viral warfare is that it is also economic warfare that plays to chinas benefit.

Chemical warfare is toxins: starting with mustard gas back in WWI, and now mostly nerve gases (sarin, novichok, etc.). It's not infectious and doesn't cause pandemics.

The origins of the Black Death are not totally clear, but it wasn't caused by the Mongols chucking dead cattle into towns. It was spread by initially by insects on rats, and then directly from human to human. Its path can be clearly traced along trade routes, for obvious reasons. From somewhere in central Asia, along the Silk Road to the Black Sea, and thence to the Eastern Med and Italy (Italian traders controlled those trade routes in those days) and then out to the rest of Europe and North Africa.

Let's remember that the Black Death wasn't even the first of these plagues. The plague of Justinian that wracked Europe in the 6th century was caused by the same bacteria (Y. pestis), and there were bubonic plague outbreaks between then and the Black Death, and after the Black Death. The plague of Justinian is believed to have reached Europe via Egypt - probably because in those days the main trade routes from the east were more by sea along the coast from India and Persia through to Arabia and Egypt rather than overland.

 

[Agema]

The doctor I'm talking about here talks to many experts in the field

He predicted "herd immunity" in mid-late February, by which point the trajectory of vaccination was such that this is what you could call a "no-brainer". Although even then, we are not clear whether herd immunity actually has been reached, for the simple reason that so many people are still taking infection control measures.

Nope, you can watch the unedited version if you want. Paul asked about funding the lab and Fauci wouldn't even answer the question asked jumping to gain of function research and money. Paul claimed it's just theater having previously infected and vaccinated people wearing masks and Fauci disagreed saying "but.. but... the VARIANTS!!!" Paul got Fauci asking about cross reactive immunity and Fauci said there was no evidence of that even though his own organization, NIH, has that on their website.

Rand Paul is aiming at gain of function. (He clearly doesn't understand gain of function of course, and this garbles his meaning somewhat.) He asks Fauci about money, and Fauci tells him that the NIH has not been funding gain of function research in China. This is a reasonable response, because Paul is explicitly attacking gain of function research.

And there's still no data showing Hydroxychloroquine doesn't work and many countries actually do use it for standard covid treatment.

And what about the harm of the CDC/Fauci saying "masks bad" then "masks good" or the CDC waiting until MAY 7TH of THIS FUCKING YEAR to say the virus was airborne? The public lost all faith in official public messaging, just go to Youtube and just about any coronavirus main network news video over the last several months has more dislikes than likes. The President saying something stupid and the actual health agencies and top health expert misleading the public are 2 very different things.

No-one disputes the US government mightily fucked up its covid-19 messaging. That's why the USA has a truly awful death toll.

The rest of the problem are people like you, in true Dunning-Kruger fashion thinking you know better because you're too ignorant to realise how ignorant you are.

 

[Trunkage]

He predicted "herd immunity" in mid-late February, by which point the trajectory of vaccination was such that this is what you could call a "no-brainer". Although even then, we are not clear whether herd immunity actually has been reached, for the simple reason that so many people are still taking infection control measures.



Rand Paul is aiming at gain of function. (He clearly doesn't understand gain of function of course, and this garbles his meaning somewhat.) He asks Fauci about money, and Fauci tells him that the NIH has not been funding gain of function research in China. This is a reasonable response, because Paul is explicitly attacking gain of function research.







No-one disputes the US government mightily fucked up its covid-19 messaging. That's why the USA has a truly awful death toll.

The rest of the problem are people like you, in true Dunning-Kruger fashion thinking you know better because you're too ignorant to realise how ignorant you are.

You have way more patience than me

 

[Phoenixmgs]

I'm just messaging you both at the same time. Feel free to both respond.

Trump officials did sound the coronavirus alarm. They just don’t work there anymore.

The dire message coming from former administration officials often stood in contrast to the upbeat narrative emanating from the White House.

www.politico.com

Dr Birx Admits Trump White House 'Censored' Real COVID Data (Video) - TheWrap

"Someone out there or someone inside was creating a parallel set of data and graphics that were shown to the president," former White House Coronavirus Task Force coordinator tells "Face the Nation"

www.thewrap.com

Dwarfen, you can post every bit of data you can find that shows wrong science. That's fine. Someone can easily read that and come to the same conclusion as Trump. There's no argument there.

But the problem is, Trump KNEW the truth and chose to downplay it. Per his own words again. He didn't have wrong data and went with it. He had correct data and decided against it for reasons of Politics. Whatever the reason, he cited percentages to Woodard of how much more deadly Covid is versus the flu, and went on TV days later saying the Flu was much worse.

This is actually what we're arguing. Trump knew the truth, and decided to lie. He struck down real science, and propped up people who would say what he want. He fired officials who told the truth. And you're arguing that there are other people who got it wrong as well? Again, Trump didn't get it wrong. He Knew. And he decided to lie.

And we all know that red meat is basically a disease that we put on a bun. A doctor will tell you that, as well as another doctor telling you that red meat is fine. A doctor will tell you to avoid alcohol, while another will tell you the benefits of a glass of red wine a day. Climate Change is real, Climate change is false. You get the deal. None of them have anywhere near the authority of the President of the United States. At the time, one of the most powerful countries in the world. The country with supposedly the best minds, the best people, and all the information. And if the President, whose jobs was supposed to be directly to serve at America's best interests says there's nothing to fear... people who trust in the Government and the Nation will not fear. And that has been measured, as we saw.

Republicans trust Trump more than the CDC for accurate info on the coronavirus, a new poll shows

A majority of Americans (56%) don't trust Trump for accurate info on coronavirus, while 44% said they do trust him, per a new CBS News/YouGov poll.

www.businessinsider.com

And nearly 600,000 of United States Citizens died because of it.

If Biden was presented with the same scenario, did the same thing, and caused the same amount of death, I would want his head on a plate as well. I don't care about Parties, I care about people.

Now, I'm curious. Would you two be so diligent in finding ways to excuse Biden as you do with Trump?

Oh, and before I forget Phoenix, He suggested or offered the idea of Bleach and UV during a White House coronavirus task force briefing. It's a proposterous idea that was rightly laughed away by most right minded individuals.

For others? Who look to someone like Trump for leadership?

Calls To Poison Centers Spike After The President’s Comments About Using Disinfectants To Treat Coronavirus

Words have consequences. It’s as simple as that, and words coming from the President of the United States matter.

www.forbes.com

I couldn't care less about parties or politics either. The only countries that did really good during the pandemic were countries that were very proactive and got on top of it before a 1st wave happened (Australia/South Korea), the only real outlier is Japan that never controlled the virus but we don't know what's happening/happened there. Thus, I very much doubt a Biden led US would've been so proactive about it to become an Australia, the NYC mayor told people to go the movies and whatnot. We would have had to start doing stuff in at least February, but we started in the middle of March. It was already FUBAR at that point. And how big the US is and how much traffic it gets in and out, it would've been really hard to pull of an Australia here even with someone great leading. Looking at how good/bad all the countries did, the US wasn't that abysmal to other wealthy developed nations like the UK or France. There's only so much you can do if you didn't stop it in its tracks basically. No doubt Trump's messaging cost lives but it's not like the US did a lot worse than other countries.

The overcompensating that the democrats did also cost lives because combined with Trump's bad messaging, nobody believed any of the messaging anymore and the worse of it all hit America last fall/holiday/winter. You had people disinfecting their groceries because they were so scared. One of my aunt's/uncle's wiped down their car every time after they went to the store. People were told everything is dangerous like walking by people outside or seeing friends and family. That caused all the people that weren't drinking the fear-mongering media koolaid to call bullshit on it all. You could've let people have the last summer to do things OUTSIDE when it was SAFE. You could've told people meeting within a small bubble of family and friends was relatively safe. Instead of saying the holidays are cancelled, see your family that's local. If you would've messaged things that people could feasibly do instead of stuff that isn't reasonable, you'd actually would've had far more people actually being safer. Not only would that have probably saved lives but all the mental issues people are having like people don't understand how to go back to normal when the CDC dropped that bomb a couple weeks back. This Errant Signal video game video is one of the most depressing things I've seen honestly. Sure, it's not death but it's definitely life lost.

And Fauci when asked about why vaccinated people still have to wear masks and do all the restrictions a month or so back, he said it was because of the variants, which has been complete bullshit from the start. How are people gonna believe the messaging when you keep bullshitting them over and over again?

 

[Phoenixmgs]

He predicted "herd immunity" in mid-late February, by which point the trajectory of vaccination was such that this is what you could call a "no-brainer". Although even then, we are not clear whether herd immunity actually has been reached, for the simple reason that so many people are still taking infection control measures.

Rand Paul is aiming at gain of function. (He clearly doesn't understand gain of function of course, and this garbles his meaning somewhat.) He asks Fauci about money, and Fauci tells him that the NIH has not been funding gain of function research in China. This is a reasonable response, because Paul is explicitly attacking gain of function research.

No-one disputes the US government mightily fucked up its covid-19 messaging. That's why the USA has a truly awful death toll.

The rest of the problem are people like you, in true Dunning-Kruger fashion thinking you know better because you're too ignorant to realise how ignorant you are.

That's not the doctor I'm referring to and by the way, I predicted it last October.

Lol, what infection control measures? (just the 1st few seconds of that video, packed crowd at the Astros/Dodgers game)



God, you must think Fauci is pretty stupid then...

Opinion | Herd Immunity Is Near, Despite Fauci’s Denial

His estimate that it’ll take a 70% to 85% vaccination rate ignores those who have already been infected.

www.wsj.com

Yeah, I have Dunning-Kruger even though I've been right on just about everything... I called bullshit on the variants and the bullshit short-lived immunity long long ago. Fauci using completely baseless logic and doesn't understand natural immunity builds herd immunity as well as vaccinations. I knew previously infected (and later vaccinated) people didn't need to do the restrictions over a year ago.

Paul asked if the Wuhan lab was given money (just money) and Fauci didn't answer the question.

US is not as bad as the UK...

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

And Fauci when asked about why vaccinated people still have to wear masks and do all the restrictions a month or so back, he said it was because of the variants, which has been complete bullshit from the start. How are people gonna believe the messaging when you keep bullshitting them over and over again?

I will correct this bit.
At the time the Science was that no-one knew how effective the vaccines were against the B.1.617 variant (The Indian Variant for you awful awful racists jk)

Also you need to reach a point of hanging out the vaccine when heard immunity is reached before it's safe and while the vaccine is ~90% successful in giving some immunity and ~70-90% effective at giving full immunity (that's high some vaccines manage about 70% -80% for giving some level of immunity) you still have to get enough people to take the vaccine to also cover for those it doesn't give immunity to thus taking off you mask before probably September at this point means even if you're vaccinated you can roll a 10 sided dice and 1 of those sides means you could get serious Covid still and end up in hospital and you don't get to re-roll.

 

[Phoenixmgs]

I will correct this bit.
At the time the Science was that no-one knew how effective the vaccines were against the B.1.617 variant (The Indian Variant for you awful awful racists jk)

Also you need to reach a point of hanging out the vaccine when heard immunity is reached before it's safe and while the vaccine is ~90% successful in giving some immunity and ~70-90% effective at giving full immunity (that's high some vaccines manage about 70% -80% for giving some level of immunity) you still have to get enough people to take the vaccine to also cover for those it doesn't give immunity to thus taking off you mask before probably September at this point means even if you're vaccinated you can roll a 10 sided dice and 1 of those sides means you could get serious Covid still and end up in hospital and you don't get to re-roll.

But through all the trials and then actual rollout of the vaccine across the world where millions and millions got doses, the variants were in play the whole time and the odds of getting severe covid being hospitalized or dying is extremely low after vaccination. There'd be mass infections of vaccinated people if the vaccines didn't work against the variants. You form CD8 cells across 52 different pieces of the spike protein of covid so if you have a couple/several mutations, you're plenty good still. The science is that it's more likely that it's an impossibility that covid escapes immunity because an organism can only mutate so much. The top US vaccine expert, Paul Offit, said it's extremely unlikely as well.

 

[PsychedelicDiamond]

I dunno. The US government has always had more of a long distance relationship with the truth and Occam's Razor makes me find it much more likely that the virus is the result of poor hygiene standards in a third world nation, rather than some Umbrella Corp. bioweapon. If there is actual research pointing towards the virus being made in a lab I'm not gonna deny it but the word of American government officials alone isn't enough for me.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Looking at how good/bad all the countries did, the US wasn't that abysmal to other wealthy developed nations like the UK or France.

Being not that abysmal compared to the UK isn't a high bar. Seemingly unprecedented (at least in recent memory) levels of corruption and incompetence there.

 

[Kwak]

So, hypothetically, evidence is found and shown to the world that Chinese government meddling was indeed the source - what happens?

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

But through all the trials and then actual rollout of the vaccine across the world where millions and millions got doses, the variants were in play the whole time and the odds of getting severe covid being hospitalized or dying is extremely low after vaccination. There'd be mass infections of vaccinated people if the vaccines didn't work against the variants. You form CD8 cells across 52 different pieces of the spike protein of covid so if you have a couple/several mutations, you're plenty good still. The science is that it's more likely that it's an impossibility that covid escapes immunity because an organism can only mutate so much. The top US vaccine expert, Paul Offit, said it's extremely unlikely as well.

Well according to the CDCs data the B.1.617 variant was only identified in February 2021

Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19)

CDC provides credible COVID-19 health information to the U.S.

www.cdc.gov

There have been other variants in India B.1.617.3 , B.1.617.2 and B.1.617.1 but those were detected before but only the end of last year mostly so even they weren't really in play before the vaccine rollout.

Also it's not really fully known how far the variants have spread. the UK has had some B.1.617 cases but as yet I don't think the USA has.

Viruses evolve all the time it's why every year it's a different flu vaccination though it can really depend on the genetic stability of the virus in question.

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

So, hypothetically, evidence is found and shown to the world that Chinese government meddling was indeed the source - what happens?

Sanctions and lawsuit and seizure of assets from Chinese based companies mostly.

 

[Agema]

So, hypothetically, evidence is found and shown to the world that Chinese government meddling was indeed the source - what happens?

Nothing, basically.

It would be incredibly embarrassing for China and damage its global reputation. Some countries may decide to reduce co-operation and dealings with China (e.g. trade, scientific agreements, political agreement, etc.) or make it pass a higher bar to accept them. But seriously, nobody's going to sanction China, get reparations from it, etc. Maybe in a worse case scenario, some countries might try to leverage something like Taiwanese independence or push back China's encroachment over the South China Sea, but China will just refuse and that will be the end of that with no further action.

 

[MrCalavera]

So, hypothetically, evidence is found and shown to the world that Chinese government meddling was indeed the source - what happens?

Lots of diplomatic posturing, that's all.