Juul e-cigs buys a health journal for propaganda

crimson5pheonix

It took 6 months to read my title.
Legacy
Jun 6, 2008
36,144
3,343
118

Juul e-cigarettes, if you remember them, is in a bit of trouble with the FDA set to rule whether they're going to be banned or not. In response, they've bought an entire issue of a health journal to run every study they can to distract from the negative health effects of their product.
 

CM156

Resident Reactionary
Legacy
May 6, 2020
1,133
1,213
118
Country
United States
Gender
White Male
I never touched one of they're nasty ecigs before and I'm not doing so now. I'm glad my brother quit that stuff. He had no choice anyway.
I'm glad for your brother, too.
Nicotine use is bad.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BrawlMan

The Rogue Wolf

Stealthy Carnivore
Legacy
Nov 25, 2007
16,338
8,834
118
Stalking the Digital Tundra
Gender
✅
Imagine all the trouble we could've avoided if the US government had bought out Amnesty International to certify that Guantanamo was "totes humane".

I never touched one of they're nasty ecigs before and I'm not doing so now. I'm glad my brother quit that stuff. He had no choice anyway.
When I first heard of vapes, I'd hoped that they'd prove to be an easy way to taper off and eventually quit tobacco. Turns out they were meant to usurp cancer sticks.

(And of course you don't need to answer, but why did your brother have no choice?)
 

BrawlMan

Lover of beat'em ups.
Legacy
Mar 10, 2016
26,937
11,285
118
Detroit, Michigan
Country
United States of America
Gender
Male
(And of course you don't need to answer, but why did your brother have no choice?)
He got diabetes. No worries, it wasn't from the e-cigs. Involve the dietary and eating habits. That said smoking those and cigars exactly didn't help.
 

Gergar12

Elite Member
Legacy
Apr 24, 2020
3,368
809
118
Country
United States
I told you academics were corrupted by the system. They are the last leg left standing against corporate hegemony, the media, various government bodies are all controlled by companies. So they are next, there will be no 1960s progressive era protests since US elites have learned their lesson.

The Chamber of Commerce practically owns America.
 

Schadrach

Elite Member
Legacy
Mar 20, 2010
1,989
355
88
Country
US
When I first heard of vapes, I'd hoped that they'd prove to be an easy way to taper off and eventually quit tobacco.
That's what my wife has been doing for a while now. She's in no rush to be off it entirely, but she's gradually reduced nicotine concentration and reduced frequency of use. She's down to the lowest concentration they sell and using it a couple of times a day. Down from pack a day smoking.

But she doesn't use Juul, she uses the liquids and buys them from reputable US companies. I guess I should say "bought" since the last time she bought some was when Seduce Juice announced they were going out of business, and she's just now reaching the lower half of the last of the two bottles from that order.
 

The Rogue Wolf

Stealthy Carnivore
Legacy
Nov 25, 2007
16,338
8,834
118
Stalking the Digital Tundra
Gender
✅
That's what my wife has been doing for a while now. She's in no rush to be off it entirely, but she's gradually reduced nicotine concentration and reduced frequency of use. She's down to the lowest concentration they sell and using it a couple of times a day. Down from pack a day smoking.
Well, that's good. Lung cancer killed my mother, so anything that gets people off of tobacco wins my seal of approval.
 

Kwak

Elite Member
Sep 11, 2014
2,205
1,710
118
Country
4
Is nicotine by itself any worse than caffeine? The brain seems to like it.
 

Terminal Blue

Elite Member
Legacy
Feb 18, 2010
3,910
1,775
118
Country
United Kingdom
Is nicotine by itself any worse than caffeine? The brain seems to like it.
Chemically, nicotine affects a much broader range of neurotransmitters than caffeine. Caffeine is pretty much just a stimulant, whereas nicotine can produce a whole range of different effects. The most important thing though is that nicotine is vastly, vastly more addictive. Nicotine actually interferes with the brain's reward system in the same way other addictive drugs do, whereas caffeine just gives you a headache for a bit if you don't have it.
 

Eacaraxe

Elite Member
Legacy
May 28, 2020
1,592
1,233
118
Country
United States
I mean, opposed to the decade's worth of bunk research and borderline defamatory articles funded and published by the tobacco and pharmaceutical industries, for the seemingly sole purpose of turning people away from vaping as a cessation/control strategy and onto tobacco alternative products owned and controlled by those industries? I'm reasonably sure more studies decrying the dangers of vaping have been retracted now, than those that have actually withstood academic rigor.

Remember the "formaldehyde" scare? When it turned out those who created the study had simply figured out under what conditions PG would synthesize into formaldehyde, then created their own juice and operating conditions tailored to maximal formaldehyde synthesis, going so far as to intentionally override electronic cigarettes' built-in safety features to do it? And all at a point when PG-based juices were already being phased out of the market due to industry trend?

How about the hum-dinger that was "popcorn lung"? When the people who had done the study didn't actually perform a random sampling but instead targeted a handful of individual brands which already listed the select chemicals as ingredients -- then to get results they simulated a vaping experience entirely outside reasonably-expectable norms (and again, devices' safety limitations), isolated and concentrated the atomized mist via filtration rather than sample the product as it would have existed in the vapers' lungs and as secondhand mist, and presented that result (which is what gave them the results they were looking for) as indicative of a typical vaping experience?

How about the "vaping lung disease" scare of two years ago, when the media and medicine pundits/lobbyists went buck wild over...improperly-made bootleg weed juice. Something literally any vaper on the planet looked at and immediately called as what was going on, as opposed to the sensationalist bullshit on the news. Not that there wasn't a story there, that story being "this is why marijuana prohibition is bad", but never let a good tragedy go to waste, right?

And last but not least, how about that "vaping causes heart attacks" article from last year that got retracted...within a month? of its publication.

Look, I'm wholeheartedly against industries and private money fucking with scholarly research. But let's not pretend this shit wasn't already happening, and this isn't occurring by vaping companies in a vacuum.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ender910

Agema

You have no authority here, Jackie Weaver
Legacy
Mar 3, 2009
8,598
5,963
118
Chemically, nicotine affects a much broader range of neurotransmitters than caffeine. Caffeine is pretty much just a stimulant, whereas nicotine can produce a whole range of different effects. The most important thing though is that nicotine is vastly, vastly more addictive. Nicotine actually interferes with the brain's reward system in the same way other addictive drugs do, whereas caffeine just gives you a headache for a bit if you don't have it.
Technically, nicotine affects precisely one neurotransmitter system (acetylcholine), just like caffeine (adenosine) - directly, anyway. The issue is what that neurotransmitter does. Acetylcholine has effects all over the body. There are two types of receptor (a protein that binds the chemical to cause a biological effect) for acetylcholine, termed muscarinic and nicotinic. Nicotine binds to the latter, obviously, and essentially replicates the function of acetylcholine.

Nicotinic acetylcholine receptors largely exist in three places: the neuromuscular junction, autonomic ganglia, and the central nervous system. Nicotine actually binds incredibly poorly to the receptors at the neuromuscular junction, which is why it is a narcotic rather than just a toxin. It would be bad if it bound to receptors at the NMJ effectively: muscle twitches, spasms, paralysis depending on dose.

So, the other two. In the central nervous system, these receptors are all over the place, and the long and short of it is that they increase cellular excitability - make neurones more active, which roughly translates into psychomotor stimulation. They have fairly strong effects on some specific pathways, such as the reward pathway, and hence part of the addictiveness. Also often increases aspects of cognition (memory, concentration, etc.), and dampens appetite.

Autonomic ganglia are part of the control system of organs by the central nervous system - essentially little relays between the spinal output and the organs themselves. Acetylcholine and nicotine activate them - however there's a trick here, because the autonomic nervous system is split between the sympathetic nervous system ("fight or flight" - think adrenaline which activates this system, although the neurotransmitter is actually noradrenaline), and the parasympathetic nervous system ("rest and digest"). Those two create effectively contrary effects on target organs, and nicotine activates both, so the end result of nicotine on the autonomic ganglia is... complex. However, in practice, a lot of the pleasure of nicotine is also that it causes the release of adrenaline from the adrenal gland. Adrenaline is actually a lot of the "rush" of nicotine. Adrenaline also increases excitability in the central nervous system, and potentially contributes to addictiveness via the reward pathway. Incidentally, the drugs probably most famous for increasing activity in the central nervous system through this pathway are amphetamines (alertness, excitability, and of course distinctly addictive).

* * *

Adenosine is probably more prevalent as a transmitter in the body than nicotine. It has important roles in blood pressure, heart rate and force, and it's ubiquitous in the central nervous system. However, it doesn't really have many very strong effects on specific pathways in the brain in the way nicotine does, which in a simplistic fashion is why it's less problematic. Adenosine mostly decreases neuronal excitability, and caffeine blocks the effect of adenosine, which is why it's a stimulant.

* * *

Nicotine is not very dangerous at normal doses. Not acutely, or chronically. The vast majority of problems associated with nicotine consumption are smoking, not nicotine itself. Nicotine is not good: in the long run it will probably stiffen your arteries and heart muscle, and predispose you to cardiovascular problems. Even then, it's nowhere near as problematic as stuff like cocaine or amphetamines. Nicotine is almost certainly less dangerous to your health than alcohol is. However, it is much more addictive.

We're yet to find out how bad vaping is, but it's surely vastly less dangerous than smoking. Assuming the vape juice is made properly, and there have been cases of crappy forumations by amateurs in the US killing people, because it's been unregulated. Chances are vaping will irritate the lungs and cause increased risk of emphysema, COPD, and some cancer risk. But vastly, vastly, less than smoking. Already alcohol is by far the most damaging drug at a societal level, and even if 100% of the population took up vaping, it wouldn't come close to alcohol. So, overall, I would consign vaping to a matter of very low concern. Although I think children and adults should be dissuaded from it (looking at you, Juul) as a general rule because nicotine is addictive.

A lot of the attacks on vaping - which are extensive as Eacaraxe pointed out - in my view are really a sort of Puritanism and anti-drug sentiment coupled with a suspicion of the new, plus cigarette companies defending their market until they can get their own replacements (e.g. IQOS) going. If vaping gets people off cigarettes, it's great news. And if we end with more people vaping than we now have smokers, no big deal. But Juul... fuck Juul, for trying to kiddies hooked and buying science themselves.
 

Eacaraxe

Elite Member
Legacy
May 28, 2020
1,592
1,233
118
Country
United States
We're yet to find out how bad vaping is, but it's surely vastly less dangerous than smoking...
Removing tar, preservatives, and combustion byproducts -- up to and including radioisotopes freed by it -- from the equation all but guarantee it. Everybody gripes about nicotine, but the biggest problem with most tobacco products is the other shit that gets added in cultivation and production.

...plus cigarette companies defending their market until they can get their own replacements (e.g. IQOS) going.
Same drivers behind the automobile industry fueling anti-hybrid and -EV pushback (and in past decades, catalytic converters and unleaded gasoline), and the fossil fuels industry fueling anti-nuclear pushback, just on a smaller scale and with dramatically less impactful consequences. Except, it isn't just the tobacco industry that stands to lose from growth of the vaping market -- the pharmaceuticals industry does too. Smoking cessation and nicotine de-addiction is a huge, growing, highly profitable market for the pharmaceuticals industry, which is exactly why pharma lobbies so fervently for anti-smoking policies, and spends so heavily on anti-smoking public opinion campaigns.

Pharma goes after vaping the same way, and for the same reasons they go after tobacco. It's competition, and pharma wants consumers' money in their pockets opposed to the competition's.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ender910

Bob_McMillan

Elite Member
Aug 28, 2014
5,193
1,866
118
Country
Philippines
Since the pandemic, I really have no idea how popular vaping is anymore. I don't go out, so I don't see people using it. One of my friends though stopped using hers though. Not on purpose, she simply didn't feel the need to when she was stuck at home all day.
 

Chimpzy

Simian Abomination
Legacy
Escapist +
Apr 3, 2020
12,250
8,514
118
Ok yeah, that's super scummy. I don't know how harmful vaping is. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't, but by all accounts, it seems to be much less than cigarettes. I do know vaping helped me kick a 20 year smoking habit, I haven't touched a cigarette in over 2 years, and been nicotine-free for a about 1,5 years. So it is alright in my book, if only as a means of quitting something worse.

We don't need these chucklefucks to muddy the waters on any harmful effects of vaping, and come to think of it, neither do we need them to give the conspiracy dumbshits something they can point their finger at and go: "See! Told you! You can't trust scientists, they're all in the pocket of the corporations/governments/Jews/lizardpeople!"
 

tstorm823

Elite Member
Legacy
Aug 4, 2011
6,492
930
118
Country
USA
Yeah, if we're treating vaping like nicotine patches as a way to get off smoking, I'll call that a positive effect.

If teenagers and hipsters started slapping on nicotine patches just because they thought it was cool, I'd call them dumb for that too.
 

Agema

You have no authority here, Jackie Weaver
Legacy
Mar 3, 2009
8,598
5,963
118
Yeah, if we're treating vaping like nicotine patches as a way to get off smoking, I'll call that a positive effect.

If teenagers and hipsters started slapping on nicotine patches just because they thought it was cool, I'd call them dumb for that too.
I think if people want to stop smoking and stop taking nicotine, vaping should not be recommended. Stopping a drug is a psychological process where replacement drugs (nicotine replacement therapy, methadone/buprenophine for opioids, acamprosate for alcohol) are there to combat withdrawal to assist the user breaking their habits. Thus I'd see it better as a formal programme that should be engaged with, where someone who just pops off to get themselves a vaper will probably just continue vaping indefinitely, because they haven't properly engaged with the right sort of system to encourage them to stop.

If they just want to stop smoking but still want nicotine, vape away.