Funny events in anti-woke world

Agema

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This is another reason I don't think the time is right for any kind of leadership challenge. Starmer hasn't actually been tested in an election yet. He's just performed badly in a few polls over a short time period, during which the government is benefitting from a vaccine boost. As things calm down I expect Starmer's numbers to improve, and he is effective at combating Johnson when he tries.
Starmer certainly seems effective in Parliament. But not enough people watch PMQs, and Labour needs someone charismatic to go out on the trail, telling everyone Labour's big and exciting message when they finally release it and enthuse the voters. I am increasingly coming to the conclusion that Starmer is not that person. Which is a shame, because at least he actually is one of the few parliamentarians with a working class background.

I am curious about this lack of vision. I wonder if Labour have just gone away to redo things very, very deep so it's taking a long time, or whether it ise just reluctant to release plans and give the Tories and their lapdog press plenty of years before the next GE to kerbstomp and/or steal it like they've been doing for the last 10 years.

But at present, infighting is the single biggest hamstring for the Labour Party, and Starmer himself has done more than anyone else to perpetuate it.
Maybe, but it could also be internal party politics. From the Corbyn administration, I started to appreciate more that Labour is decentralised in a way the Tories aren't (indeed, this was frequently a defence of Corbyn, with at least some validity). Initiatives potentially come from the party machinery such as the NEC rather than the leader, and there is evidence this is the case here: early reports talk of Starmer being asked to support a purge - indicating he may well not have been the originator. He surely has a lot of theoretical influence, but if he is politically weak (and he is, given the poll collapse earlier this year), he may not have sufficient authority to exercise it.
 

Trunkage

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Starmer certainly seems effective in Parliament. But not enough people watch PMQs, and Labour needs someone charismatic to go out on the trail, telling everyone Labour's big and exciting message when they finally release it and enthuse the voters. I am increasingly coming to the conclusion that Starmer is not that person. Which is a shame, because at least he actually is one of the few parliamentarians with a working class background.

I am curious about this lack of vision. I wonder if Labour have just gone away to redo things very, very deep so it's taking a long time, or whether it ise just reluctant to release plans and give the Tories and their lapdog press plenty of years before the next GE to kerbstomp and/or steal it like they've been doing for the last 10 years.
After watching a lot of politics in various countries, I personally don't think charisma matters much.

Slogans do. Get the right slogan and it's pretty much a default win. And good slogan emotionally manipulates a demographics identity politics. Eg. Any concern about Brexit was always swept way because it emotionally manipulated British identities. Logic and facts cant beat emotional manipulations.

Bojo was never voted in on his charisma. He emotionally manipulated people and then pretended it was fine because his political identity is frat house dunkard who doesn't care about facts
 

Trunkage

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Indeed. Make no mistake though, this is qanon in all but name.



Unfortunately it was gaining real traction here way before Scotty did a public conspiracy poopoo. One of my close family members tried pilling me on it out of nowhere ages ago, and won't stop trying to pill everyone on it ever since. Social media group coordination, algorithms and insidious money injections have been major contributors for it worldwide so far. France has got a concerning hold on it too;


In context of Scott Morrison, not sure if you've come across any of it yet, but there's interviews with the sister of his best buddy talking about his radicalisation and influence, though it's probably more publicised in Australian media than anywhere else I'd imagine. So apologies if it's already old knowledge!

I just mean he gave a lot of legitimacy to the conspiracy theorists. They think they are turning governments one by one onto this idea.
 
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Chimpzy

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Police are AT the scene. I read it as saying they ran them off.
My favorite bit is the whole Magna Carta thing. Medieval English law to make Scotland great again.
 

TheMysteriousGX

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Is this a fun anti-monarchy thing, a fun anti-English thing, or a lame anti-mask thing?
 

XsjadoBlayde

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They're definitely sovereign citizens at their core, as they're chatting shit about the Magna Carta, clause 61 etc. Though a bit rarer to find on this side of the pond, and naturally differing """""logic""""" But the qanon craze over the pandemic lockdown has been pulling in all these disparate groups in rather messy awkward ways, so everyone's also a pedophile too for some reason. Like 50 black holes violently merging as reality warps and tears apart around them.
 
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The Rogue Wolf

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My favorite bit is the whole Magna Carta thing. Medieval English law to make Scotland great again.
There's been a movement here in the US regarding the whole "sovereign citizen" thing where Americans have been swearing their allegiance to some random British Lord because of his opposition to Brexit, calling it "lawful rebellion". Said British Lord has no idea what the hell they're on about.

"Sovereign citizens" love the Magna Carta because it talks about "freedmen", and they twist it around to mean that the law only applies to them when they choose it to, and that anyone who tries to keep them from doing whatever they want is "violating their rights" and therefore owes them a lot of money.
 
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Agema

You have no authority here, Jackie Weaver
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There's been a movement here in the US regarding the whole "sovereign citizen" thing where Americans have been swearing their allegiance to some random British Lord because of his opposition to Brexit, calling it "lawful rebellion". Said British Lord has no idea what the hell they're on about.
We've got shit like that in the UK, the very similar concept of Freemen On The Land.

It's all the most total bollocks.
 

Breakdown

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See I wouldn't agree with Eagle on that point as even as a non Labour person I was against the war and pro investigating it but I can somewhat understand her wanting to go in more due to put it somewhat politely reasons other than the WMD argument and more down to her as a persons and other aspects of her life which Iraq and some parts of the Middle East don't tend to be too good with.

Labour needs to look beyond the party walls into the wider public and Angela Eagle would do really well I feel just make sure some-one tempers some of her lets say not so great impulses in terms of wanting to spread influence beyond the UK on certain issues and things would be golden.
Have you seen Angela Eagle doing TV interviews? She makes Theresa May look charismatic.
 

Seanchaidh

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He surely has a lot of theoretical influence, but if he is politically weak (and he is, given the poll collapse earlier this year), he may not have sufficient authority to exercise it.
At least he'll still be leader when the party is dissolved.

We've got shit like that in the UK, the very similar concept of Freemen On The Land.

It's all the most total bollocks.
Do they think the enclosure acts were illegitimate or do they have some other reasoning?
 

Dwarvenhobble

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Have you seen Angela Eagle doing TV interviews? She makes Theresa May look charismatic.
And May managed to win an election. Eagle may not be that Charismatic but she's managed to survive an episode of the UK show Have I Got News For You and probably came off it better than most other politicians that have been guest stars and won people over (well other than Boris Johnson and his time on there was mostly being a joked about and trying to maintain control over the teams)
 

Agema

You have no authority here, Jackie Weaver
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Do they think the enclosure acts were illegitimate or do they have some other reasoning?
It's some sort of bizarre and total bullshit interpretation of common law that national statutes only apply to them if they personally consent to them.

In particular, one of the most common tactics is to claim that the name on their birth certificate is its own legal identity separate from them as a person, therefore anything ascribed to that name doesn't necessarily apply to them. So for instance a parking ticket is given to the abstract legal identity created by their birth certificate and they are not liable for it, but funnily enough, when it comes to their house, they seem to actually own it as a person rather than their abstract legal identity. Convenient, eh?
 
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The Rogue Wolf

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In particular, one of the most common tactics is to claim that the name on their birth certificate is its own legal identity separate from them as a person, therefore anything ascribed to that name doesn't necessarily apply to them.
And the best part: The only actual distinction is if their name is spelled in ALL CAPS or not.
 
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