Our Covid Response

[Dalisclock]

First off let me just say that im glad your friend is okay.

As someone who was in and out of the ER all of 2020 with a grandfather with massive heart problems among countless other things i can assure you of one thing. If you went into the ER and they felt your friend was nearly at deaths door, you would NOT have waited. The sheer fact that you waited 6 hours and your friend isnt gone is proof of that because nobody goes 6 hours with a serious heart problem and no medical attention and just walks away.

You make it sound like we are in the height of covid still. We are not, hospitals are not overrun and we are not seeing people still dropping like flies anymore.

Ahem.

Idaho allows overwhelmed hospitals across the state to ration care if necessary.

“We don’t have enough resources to adequately treat the patients in our hospitals, whether you are there for Covid-19 or a heart attack or because of a car accident,” said a top state health official.

www.nytimes.com

Oregon and Idaho Are Running Out of ICU Beds as COVID Cases Hit Records

Oregon and Idaho have joined the list of U.S. states that are running out of intensive care unit beds as both confront a dramatic rise in new coronavirus infections.

www.seattletimes.com

Yeah, if you're Rationing Care and sending your cases out of state for availalble ICU care, you're hurting for hospital space. I'm just using my part of the country as an example, I'm sure others can chime in their neck of the woods.

And last I checked we're losing 2000 Americans a DAY to covid and about 97,000 Hospitalized PER DAY, so yeah, we're still deep in the Pandemic.

 

[Silvanus]

And lets be honest we are all sitting here being armchair quarterbacks. I think none of us would have faired any better had we been in charge in the moment.

In terms of broad-strokes strategy, I think Boris Johnson, Matt Hancock, and Donald Trump performed worse than a lot of average laypeople would have done, actually.

Most people would not have allowed the release of covid patients into care homes, as Hancock did. Most people would not have awarded multimillion pound contracts for PPE that turned out to be unusable, as Hancock did. Most people wouldn't have delayed lockdown for weeks after it was obvious one would be needed, as Johnson did. Most people would not boast about shaking hands with hospital patients without any protection, as Johnson did. And most people would not encourage people to take untested, unproven remedies, or dramatically downplay the severity of the virus in public, as Trump did.

 

[CriticalGaming]

And last I checked we're losing 2000 Americans a DAY to covid and about 97,000 Hospitalized PER DAY, so yeah, we're still deep in the Pandemic.

I live in Los Angeles, which is one of the biggest populations in the country. And we are having about 12k reports of covid a day, with about 20-ish deaths per day. What's really interesting to be is that Covid vanished in February for like 5 months. Then came back out of nowhere in July. And now in September it's tapering off again. https://www.google.com/search?q=los...0l4j0i390l3.8046j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

There are theories going around that Covid has basically replaced the flu in the sense that we are now and for a long time to come, going to start seeing covid seasons. Much like the Flu there will be periods of the year (likely summer) in which you'll go get a Covid shot just like people get flu shots these days. Additionally as the virus gets more and more studied and treated, we will figure out better ways to treat the virus and it'll become a non-concern for people.

The flu kills (with a vaccine and lots of treatment available) 60K people per year in the U.S alone. Yet I'm willing to bet that the only time anyone ever thinks about the flu is if they get it. You don't walk around thinking about catching the flu, much the same way you likely don't think about a car accident.



Another thing I hate about those stats like 97K people hospitalized everyday is that they are bullshit, or highly exaggerated. Think about this for a second. 100k people every day hospitalized? really? Every day? Ok for how long? 10 days? 30? Every hospital in America would be destroyed in mere days if 100k people EVERY DAY ever admitted to the hospital, meaning requiring a bed and a room. It's not possible.

Now maybe 100k go to the hospital with symptoms, and they get some instructions maybe percriptions and then sent home. But not Hospitalized.

Think about this: According to this https://www.aha.org/statistics/fast-facts-us-hospitals

There are about 920K total hospital beds in the U.S. If 97k people were getting hospitalized every single day. Then there would be people in the streets in every single city in the country in less than 10 days. And that 97k is spread out obviously, but even then localized hot spots would be devastated. Where are these desvasted places? Not in Los Angeles. Not in San Francisco. Not in New York? Where are they getting 97k people per day and what are they counting as a "hospitalization". And of those 97k people, how long are they having to stay in the hospital? All of these are questions those numbers don't answer.


You can't expect people to live forever afraid of something that they can't control. At some point fatigue sets in and people stop giving a shit. Even with those stats happening my local news barely talks about covid in any regard except to talk about vaccine mandates. Whereas before it was always "100,000 new cases, 45000 new deaths" every minute of everyday. Too much exposure to that create apathy, and at some point people stop caring and just want to live their lives.

 

[CriticalGaming]

In terms of broad-strokes strategy, I think Boris Johnson, Matt Hancock, and Donald Trump performed worse than a lot of average laypeople would have done, actually.

Most people would not have allowed the release of covid patients into care homes, as Hancock did. Most people would not have awarded multimillion pound contracts for PPE that turned out to be unusable, as Hancock did. Most people wouldn't have delayed lockdown for weeks after it was obvious one would be needed, as Johnson did. Most people would not boast about shaking hands with hospital patients without any protection, as Johnson did. And most people would not encourage people to take untested, unproven remedies, or dramatically downplay the severity of the virus in public, as Trump did.

Because the other places that did super well like Greenland, and New Zealand, basically locked out all travel and paid people to stay the fuck home.

Nobody knew how to react, and it's clear that the only strategy that was viable was go all-in on protection, or to leave shit alone and let the virus play out. It's harsh to imply the free reign of something like this, but the issue is that you can't lockdown some people, but let other people go about their day in the next town over and expect compliance.

Again I point the finger at the messaging. Remember when Fauci said we didn't need masks. Then we needed TRIPLE masks. The shit was all over the place.

 

[Buyetyen]

Why would you die? Are you immuno-compromised? Do you have pre-existing co-morbidities.

Assume I do.

Why do people act like Covid is automatically death? It's not. Can it be fatal? Yes, but it requires other factors to be extra dangerous to most people.

Long-term effects of Covid include pulmonary issues, scarring of the lung tissue and impotence. Are any of those something you want to get in line for?

Are you unwilling to risk any other illness? Are you unwilling to risk your life by driving on the highway? Why would you ever leave the house if that's the case?

Argumentum ad absurdum. Try again.

My question isn't even directed at you by the way, but it still stands: what is my incentive to risk my health during a natural disaster to maintain the economic status quo?

 

[Dalisclock]

Again I point the finger at the messaging. Remember when Fauci said we didn't need masks. Then we needed TRIPLE masks. The shit was all over the place.

Why There Are So Many Different Guidelines For Face Masks For The Public

Some agencies and places urged or required people to use face coverings in public early on. Others dismissed the coverings as ineffective, then revised their stance. Why the differences?

www.npr.org

 

[CriticalGaming]

Long-term effects of Covid include pulmonary issues, scarring of the lung tissue and impotence. Are any of those something you want to get in line for?

Yes it is means I continue to keep my roof over my head and food on the table. People work in cool mines, risking black lung. People work on Oil Rigs which are one of the most dangerous places to work on the planet. People risk their lives everyday just to keep themselves employeed and "in the economy". So quite frankly, to quote something I've heard all too often, "Check your privilege". There are far more dangerous jobs and harder jobs out there then simply having to work with a mask and worrying about Covid (which you should be vaccinated and therefore protected against right?)

Assume I do.

I don't assume. You either do, or you don't. If you do then don't go to work and hope your unemployment lasts or find a job in which you can work at a distance from people and therefore be as protected as possible. Otherwise you can forego having any sort of life. No money tends to make your options really limited.

My question isn't even directed at you by the way, but it still stands: what is my incentive to risk my health during a natural disaster to maintain the economic status quo?

You risk your health every single day you go outside, covid or no covid. Your argument is invalid. To use your own words. "Try again"

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

First off let me just say that im glad your friend is okay.

As someone who was in and out of the ER all of 2020 with a grandfather with massive heart problems among countless other things i can assure you of one thing. If you went into the ER and they felt your friend was nearly at deaths door, you would NOT have waited. The sheer fact that you waited 6 hours and your friend isnt gone is proof of that because nobody goes 6 hours with a serious heart problem and no medical attention and just walks away.

Dunno man, he had a blood pressure of 220/160 and is still in the hospital with a heart that's pumping wrong for unknown reasons, you tell me if it's serious. And instead of waiting an hour for a doctor he waited 5

You make it sound like we are in the height of covid still. We are not, hospitals are not overrun and we are not seeing people still dropping like flies anymore.

He said, talking to somebody with firsthand knowledge of a hospital using ambulance bays as staging areas

Are there still hot spots sure. But if this shit was still crazy we would be back to shutdowns, kids wouldnt be in school, restaurants would be to go only again, etc.

Im mean jesus they are letting 50k people cram football stadiums with not masks fucking anywhere.

If covid is still a hospital clogging problem, and public officials are still letting that happen. We are doomed.

No, see, we are doomed. Because people want to pretend Covid's not a problem anymore. You know, they say things like "but maybe we shouldn't've locked down at all"

Because hey, only hurt them in the pocketbook.

 

[CriticalGaming]

No, see, we are doomed. Because people want to pretend Covid's not a problem anymore. You know, they say things like "but maybe we shouldn't've locked down at all"

I didn't say that. I said that we should have locked down TIGHTER and in a more complete way, because the half-assed lock downs were about as useful as nothing at all and we'd have been better off doing nothing because of it.

Dunno man, he had a blood pressure of 220/160 and is still in the hospital with a heart that's pumping wrong for unknown reasons, you tell me if it's serious.

I don't know. Apparently the ER nurses didn't think it was immediately life-threatening if you sat around for 6 hours. Unless you are exaggerating about how long you sat in the waiting room before your friend could be seen. High blood pressure is something that needs to be treated but I don't know how immediately it needs to be dealt with. But Hospitals don't let someone sit and die in their waiting rooms when they are in immediate danger of imminent death. So I don't really know what to tell you there.

He said, talking to somebody with firsthand knowledge of a hospital using ambulance bays as staging areas

Where is this happening? I know they used them last year, and i know there are a lot of hospitals that haven't taken them down yet. But I live in a major city and there are no hospitals actively using them at the moment. They are leaving them up until they are sure the danger has passed. Basically on stand-by.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

I don't assume. You either do, or you don't. If you do then don't go to work and hope your unemployment lasts or find a job in which you can work at a distance from people and therefore be as protected as possible. Otherwise you can forego having any sort of life. No money tends to make your options really limited.

"Just protect yourself if you can, and when you can't, die and reduce the surplus population" -man who has no idea how unemployment works

 

[Buyetyen]

Yes it is means I continue to keep my roof over my head and food on the table. People work in cool mines, risking black lung. People work on Oil Rigs which are one of the most dangerous places to work on the planet. People risk their lives everyday just to keep themselves employeed and "in the economy". So quite frankly, to quote something I've heard all too often, "Check your privilege". There are far more dangerous jobs and harder jobs out there then simply having to work with a mask and worrying about Covid (which you should be vaccinated and therefore protected against right?)

This doesn't answer my question. What is my incentive? With unemployment benefits I was able to live in relative comfort, if cheaply during the pandemic and I mainly wanted to go back to work because I'm good at my job. But what is my incentive to do so during a disaster?

As for the people on oil rigs and in coal mines, don't get me started on how bullshit the fossil fuels industry is. You're the kind of guy who looks at the status quo and never stops to ask, "Why?"

I don't assume.

No, you do. A lot. Especially when other people express problems that are not yours.

You risk your health every single day you go outside, covid or no covid. Your argument is invalid. To use your own words. "Try again"

Argumentum ad absurdum. Try again. If you can't come up with something better, then just keep your mouth shut.

 

[CriticalGaming]

"Just protect yourself if you can, and when you can't, die and reduce the surplus population" -man who has no idea how unemployment works

*rolls eyes*

Rot in your home I guess. I dunno what to tell you. Unemployment expects you to be looking for a job. Live in fear, have fun.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

Where is this happening? I know they used them last year, and i know there are a lot of hospitals that haven't taken them down yet. But I live in a major city and there are no hospitals actively using them at the moment. They are leaving them up until they are sure the danger has passed. Basically on stand-by.

I, and a lot of other people, do not live in a major city. I, like a lot of other people, live in one of the Stupid States that ended the unemployment benefit early to "get more people working and reduce the labor shortage" only to find out that it's less of a labor shortage and more of a "the old people who were working those jobs fucking died" problem

 

[Buyetyen]

I, and a lot of other people, do not live in a major city. I, like a lot of other people, live in one of the Stupid States that ended the unemployment benefit early to "get more people working and reduce the labor shortage" only to find out that it's less of a labor shortage and more of a "the old people who were working those jobs fucking died"

It's almost as if natural disasters have far-reaching consequences beyond the immediate destruction.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

*rolls eyes*

Rot in your home I guess. I dunno what to tell you. Unemployment expects you to be looking for a job. Live in fear, have fun.

Yeah, "if you're vulnerable, just rot" has basically been the conservative position for the past year and a half, I know. Kinda glad you aren't denying it anymore

 

[CriticalGaming]

This doesn't answer my question. What is my incentive? With unemployment benefits I was able to live in relative comfort, if cheaply during the pandemic and I mainly wanted to go back to work because I'm good at my job. But what is my incentive to do so during a disaster?

Your incentive is that unemployment wont pay you forever. And most, if not all, benefit plans expect you to be actively looking for a job. And the incentive to get back as early as you feel you are able to is to try and get a job you want while you have the time instead of taking a job because you are FORCED to take whatever you can get before your benefits end.

As for the people on oil rigs and in coal mines, don't get me started on how bullshit the fossil fuels industry is.

Irrelevant. The point is that people voluntarily do dangerous work everywhere. What about cops? You going to roll your eyes and give me some shit about all cops being asshole who deserve it?

What about people in search and rescue that go out to save people during disaster while disasters are still actively happening? Hurricanes, floods, earthquakes...PANDEMICS! You gonna roll your eyes at all the health care workers because the healthcare industry is bullshit too? It's such a stupid point to make.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

It's almost as if natural disasters have far-reaching consequences beyond the immediate destruction.

You'd think Gamers would be better at figuring out systems, but somehow a good chunk haven't figured out that having an extra 20%-60% deaths in a field might have knock-on effects. Like, if you're used to having 100 people in your workforce die in a year, it might, just maybe, be a tad disruptive to have 135 people die instead.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

Irrelevant. The point is that people voluntarily do dangerous work everywhere. What about cops? You going to roll your eyes and give me some shit about all cops being asshole who deserve it?

What about people in search and rescue that go out to save people during disaster while disasters are still actively happening? Hurricanes, floods, earthquakes...PANDEMICS! You gonna roll your eyes at all the health care workers because the healthcare industry is bullshit too? It's such a stupid point to make.

Says the dude actively dismissing any reports of our healthcare system and workers being stretched to the breaking point as is

 

[Buyetyen]

Your incentive is that unemployment wont pay you forever. And most, if not all, benefit plans expect you to be actively looking for a job. And the incentive to get back as early as you feel you are able to is to try and get a job you want while you have the time instead of taking a job because you are FORCED to take whatever you can get before your benefits end.

What is my incentive to work during the disaster? Which a pandemic very much is.

Irrelevant. The point is that people voluntarily do dangerous work everywhere. What about cops? You going to roll your eyes and give me some shit about all cops being asshole who deserve it?

Cops' jobs are not nearly as dangerous as construction workers and if anything the latter are providing better service as is. And cops' jobs would be a lot less dangerous if America wasn't so in love with its own mythology about guns. But I digress. My point was that you never bother to ask why we do things the way we do. You seem to think it irrational to believe we can do better.

What about people in search and rescue that go out to save people during disaster while disasters are still actively happening? Hurricanes, floods, earthquakes...PANDEMICS! You gonna roll your eyes at all the health care workers because the healthcare industry is bullshit too? It's such a stupid point to make.

You're comparing emergency services to non-emergency services. And you still haven't answered my question. What is my incentive to work during a natural disaster in order to maintain the economic status quo for the 1%?

 

[CriticalGaming]

What is my incentive to work during a natural disaster in order to maintain the economic status quo for the 1%?

You haven't been paying attention then. The incentive is for your financial security, not the 1%. The 1% shouldn't even be your concern. The economic status quo is just a byproduct of being part of the work force.

Also consider yourself lucky you are even able to get unemployment benefits because there are shitloads of people who don't have that luxury and never had that luxury. So when lockdowns happened, they either used up their savings or they lost their homes, cars, whatever.

You get to remain safe and comfortable at home, not everyone had that option. Good for you.