Ukraine
- Thread starter Silvanus
- Start date
Armies are composed of people from the whole rich tapestry of humanity.
That means some of them are sociopaths, sadists, thugs, bullies, and yahoos who revel in the opportunity to use force. Some of them will be angry, frustrated, anxious, afraid and also armed to the teeth and trained to kill. Many to all of them will be themselves brutalised and desensitised as part of their training, to value life less. Indoctrinated that they are the good guys, assuming anyone who hates or rebukes them is a "Nazi". Low education, stumbling around confused with no idea what to do, frustrated with the knowledge things are going badly. And so on. They don't care about optics, orders, or anything much more than carrying out whatever murderous impulse flashes through them at the time, whether malice, panic, or whatever else.
Every time someone sends an army out, the expectation should be that there will be plentiful murder, rape, abuse and looting. Despite years of training to more humane standards, even Western armies are guaranteed to commit a fair bit: and arguably it is impressive how little they commit, much as each and every instance is no less an atrocity that should stain the hands of those who sent them out in the first place.
The Russian army and particularly the people involved in the invasion are partly made up of the likes of neo nazi militias and radical islamists from Chechnya. Violent excesses are to be expected.
Break the will to resist.
The "liberation" line was just used to sell the crusade to the Russian domestic audience, who cannot get any actual news about what happens, so cannot see the dissonance.
Executions, probably not. But it does appear to be official policy to target civilian infrastructure. There's no other explanation for extended shelling of places with zero strategic value, such as residential districts outside of the active zones of conflict, or the huge number of hospitals targeted.
Indeed.
Putin’s fascists: the Russian state's long history of cultivating homegrown neo-Nazis
While Russian President Vladimir Putin has made the absurd claim to be waging war to “de-nazify” Ukraine, his regime has a long record of collaboration with far-right extremists.
theconversation.com
- May 6, 2020
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As we all know any negative press about rivals of the USA is just a CIA fabricated lie.
Russians, propaganda like this is never for people like us. Stuff like this is what they shove down their throats every day
This is used to justify war crimes and stuff like this should always be called out.
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Trump supporters believe Trump's lies, mind. Doesn't have to be a good lie if people chose to be lied to.
Well, that's the thing about Russia's general actions in the past 10 years, it's not like they're following some nebulous keikaku, their ideology and their long term ambitions are fairly obvious if you know where to look. Aleksandr Dugin, the architect of contemporary Russia's guiding ethos of Russian imperialism, or, as he calls it, "Eurasianism", is not some enigmatic figure, the guy has been writing books, publishing articles and giving interviews quite openly.
In this interview, for example, he talks quite openly about "Russian truth" as something subjective and "truth as a matter of believing". He dismisses the the existence of "facts" entirely, and that should tell you quite clearly where that propaganda is going. According to Dugin's worldview a lie that's widely believed enough, is the truth.
Bucha Residents Describe 'Systematic' Killings By Russian Troops
Residents of this suburb of Kyiv told RFE/RL they managed to survive the "systematic" killing of the town's population by Russian troops that until recently occupied the area.
www.rferl.org
Interviews with survivors of Bucha. Killings with zero military justification, such as a sniper gunning down civilians in the street, and through apartment windows, including one respondent's son-in-law. Fucking harrowing.
Even if you automatically distrust anything from a "western" source, or believe reporters cannot be believed: survivors and the relatives of the victims are directly telling you what happened to them.
There's a neat trick to get around them. Just state that you don't believe they really are survivors, and that they are merely crisis actors paid by the west. If someone does that he can still simp for Russia without feeling too bad about it.Bucha Residents Describe 'Systematic' Killings By Russian Troops
Residents of this suburb of Kyiv told RFE/RL they managed to survive the "systematic" killing of the town's population by Russian troops that until recently occupied the area.
Interviews with survivors of Bucha. Killings with zero military justification, such as a sniper gunning down civilians in the street, and through apartment windows, including one respondent's son-in-law. Fucking harrowing.
Even if you automatically distrust anything from a "western" source, or believe reporters cannot be believed: survivors and the relatives of the victims are directly telling you what happened to them.
If you're going to keep making up positions for me to hold, I don't see much point continuing. That also goes for the rest of you.
You stated Ukraine should concede to Russia's strategic aims in order to "end the war". Face up to what that means: annexation.
In truth, when you repeat the tripe about how the Ukrainian government lacks legitimacy/ a mandate, you're laying the groundwork for regime change. I suspect intentionally so; you've had nothing but contempt for Ukraine's self-determination.
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Russian troops tortured and executed a village mayor and her family, Ukrainian officials say
Deputy prime minister says the mayor of a village near Kyiv was "killed in captivity" along with her husband and her son by occupying Russian forces.
www.cbsnews.com
Olga Sukhenko, mayor of a small town near Kyiv, was abducted, tortured and executed by Russian soldiers, along with her family.
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As Silvanus has said, when annexation (or becoming a vassal state with regime change to whatever Putin desires) is the practical end result your ideology leads to, you need to face up to it being your effective position.
Or in other words, you've run out of ways to try to justify Putin's war crimes, so you're declaring yourself the victor of the argument, packing up and running off.
If the war ends... it's actually just the beginning.You stated Ukraine should concede to Russia's strategic aims in order to "end the war". Face up to what that means: annexation.
In truth, when you repeat the tripe about how the Ukrainian government lacks legitimacy/ a mandate, you're laying the groundwork for regime change. I suspect intentionally so; you've had nothing but contempt for Ukraine's self-determination.
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Russian troops tortured and executed a village mayor and her family, Ukrainian officials say
Deputy prime minister says the mayor of a village near Kyiv was "killed in captivity" along with her husband and her son by occupying Russian forces.
Olga Sukhenko, mayor of a small town near Kyiv, was abducted, tortured and executed by Russian soldiers, along with her family.
Just ask the West in Iraq. At minimum 200,000 innocent civilians dead. (Wow, thank god we got rid of Saddam.)