Supreme Court overturns Roe v. Wade; states can ban abortion

Silvanus

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Lucky position? I just don't waste money because I don't make that much.
If you think moving home is financially easy, then yes, you're in a relatively financially comfortable position. It is not easy for most people.
 
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TheMysteriousGX

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Maybe, maybe not.

In practice, a lot of Americans exist in a sort of grey zone on abortion where they don't like the Democratic position of effectively any access or the Republican position of no access at all. As a result, campaigning on a return to the old Roe v Wade status quo may be a far less compelling vote winner than we might like to think. Consequently, a more moderate position - abortion rights with a shorter timeframe, or guaranteeing access in certain situations (health complications, incest, rape, etc.) might get significantly more traction and as a result be more likely to be enacted.

Furthermore, what the strategists appear to be looking at is using abortion as a wedge to get people to listen to other ideas when they might not otherwise do so: so abortion as a route in to expand people's minds on other issues more favourable to voting Democrat. If they approach abortion as a single issue, if that issue is resolved, everyone goes back to their old ways. Instead, they want to an opportunity to appeal more widely.

This was much discussed in the UK in Corbynite circles: using the current enthusiasm not just for the immediate task of winning an election, but developing a deeper knowledge / belief in left-leaning political philosophy and ideas that might provide a foundation of support for for decades to come.
Okay, but counter-point: the old Roe v Wade was the compromise moderate position to begin with, compromising with even shorter time limits and even more restrictions to access and exceptions is a net loss, and a huge amount of people are absolutely fucking tired of the democrats always compromising to the right while fighting anything vaguely leftish.

Most people in the US are to the left of Democrats on most issues according to polling. You won't "appeal more widely" by going further right
 
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Most people in the US are to the left of Democrats on most issues according to polling.
If you poll them individually on each issue, sure. However when polled on the issues grouped into a platform next to a party name, that finding disappears. And unfortunately for the US, the current political system in which voting takes place is much closer to the latter rather than the former.
 

TheMysteriousGX

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If you poll them individually on each issue, sure. However when polled on the issues grouped into a platform next to a party name, that finding disappears. And unfortunately for the US, the current political system in which voting takes place is much closer to the latter rather than the former.
And marching right is going to fix the problem how exactly? Why would they vote Diet Republican when Republican Classic is right there and isn't a pedophile socialist hell bent on destroying America?

Like, I get that outrage isn't enough and that Democrats need, absolutely need, a core identity that isn't tied merely to the opposition of the GOP, I just think positioning themselves as the new right wing party is a rock stupid response.
 
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Dirty Hipsters

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You moved the goalposts to a long distance move. I said moving in general isn't that expensive, not moving California to New York. You can buy good stuff for probably $5,000+ as you said it would probably be more costly than the quoted price because it was the smallest truck. Plus, you're selling your old stuff, you're definitely making out.
No I didn't, the issue was always moving between states. And yes, moving between states should be assumed to be a long distance move as most people don't live directly on the border between 2 states (and a lot of the time states that are directly next to each other are culturally similar and will have the same social problems meaning that if you're trying to escape a specific social problem just moving to a neighboring state typically isn't good enough.
 

Agema

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The old right-wing canard of "the poor are only poor because they're feckless", then.
This reminds me of someone on these forums years ago blasting people for being inadequate and boasting how he'd done it all himself. Except of course he was well raised and supported by his middle class parents, who sent him to college, gave him a room and fed him when he flunked college, and his old mate who got him a job, and his boss who mentored and supported him getting promoted, etc.

Many people who have enjoyed so many advantages often refuse to recognise them. In some cases because they seem so normal that they don't seem like advantages; in worse cases, because accepting that they had advanges sullies the illusion of their moral high ground and how special they think they are.
 
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Phoenixmgs

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The old right-wing canard of "the poor are only poor because they're feckless", then.
It's true in most regards at least with the people I know. I have friends that make more than me with 0 housing costs and complain that the bar we go to on Friday is too expensive. One friend literally eats out for every single meal and had to dip into his 401k to fix his car, again he has no housing costs outside of taxes. I can buy at least 2 cars (probably 3) without credit and I just put down 20% on my place.
 

Phoenixmgs

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This reminds me of someone on these forums years ago blasting people for being inadequate and boasting how he'd done it all himself. Except of course he was well raised and supported by his middle class parents, who sent him to collage, gave him a room and fed him when he flunked college, and his old mate who got him a job, and his boss who mentored and supported him getting promoted, etc.

Many people who have enjoyed so many advantages often refuse to recognise them. In some cases because they seem so normal that they don't seem like advantages; in worse cases, because accepting that they had advanges sullies the illusion of their moral high ground and how special they think they are.
Nope, didn't grow up with well off parents. Just went to cheap colleges. 2 years at a community college that was basically free (I think I made money in fact going there in grants and stuff) because I was not well off. Then finished at Purdue Calumet (now Purdue Northwest) and that was only a couple thousand a semester IIRC, and never had any student debt. Even if I had to pay for the community college, that was only like a thousand a semester.

It's not that difficult to manage money...
 

The Rogue Wolf

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This reminds me of someone on these forums years ago blasting people for being inadequate and boasting how he'd done it all himself. Except of course he was well raised and supported by his middle class parents, who sent him to collage, gave him a room and fed him when he flunked college, and his old mate who got him a job, and his boss who mentored and supported him getting promoted, etc.
The "born on third base and thinks he hit a triple" type.
 

Dreiko

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Because moving to another state is just easy-peezy, lemon squeezy.
/s

Serously, if you have the kind of resources available to you where moving to another state is just that easy, you are spoiled AF.
The issue about moving isn't the resources as much as the time wasted settling to a new place and getting all your belongings relocated, also the housing market is a seller's market right now and there's a pretty big bubble which isn't making it go any faster either. I just moved cross country a few months ago and basically the entire thing took like a month and a half until I was able to return to my normal routine. My point was just that if you feel so strongly about an issue, you at least have that option available to you. It's still a lot better than other countries where you have to actually leave the entire country to reach a better place with laws that agree with you. I've also done that too so I know first hand lol.
 

Silvanus

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It's true in most regards at least with the people I know. I have friends that make more than me with 0 housing costs and complain that the bar we go to on Friday is too expensive. One friend literally eats out for every single meal and had to dip into his 401k to fix his car, again he has no housing costs outside of taxes. I can buy at least 2 cars (probably 3) without credit and I just put down 20% on my place.
Yep, that's a comfortable position alright.
 

Silvanus

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That anyone can be in if they could manage money. I don't make more than $20/hour.
Cool. How much of that is sunk every month on rent and bills?

Also, 32% of the American workforce earn less than $15 per hour.
 
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Trunkage

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It's true in most regards at least with the people I know. I have friends that make more than me with 0 housing costs and complain that the bar we go to on Friday is too expensive. One friend literally eats out for every single meal and had to dip into his 401k to fix his car, again he has no housing costs outside of taxes. I can buy at least 2 cars (probably 3) without credit and I just put down 20% on my place.
Ah yes, anecdotes that you can apply to everyone, I presume
 

Phoenixmgs

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Cool. How much of that is sunk every month on rent and bills?

Also, 32% of the American workforce earn less than $15 per hour.
For me, more than the ideal amount. For the people I'm talking about that have money problems, they have 0 housing costs.

Which might be fine for many places in the US depending on the cost of living there. Where I live, the car wash place starts you at $15/hour, it's not hard to find a job that pays enough right now and you don't need a college degree.

Guys, guys, Phoenixmgs says it's not a problem for him, therefor nobody else should complain about it - Can't you just get that through yer thick heads? I mean, come on!
Ah yes, anecdotes that you can apply to everyone, I presume
So, quick question, how much do you guys spend a month on your cell phones (the monthly service fee + the cost of the phone)? If you pay say $50 for service and your phone was $720 (for easy math purposes), then you're monthly cost in essence would be $70 a month going by a 3-year life span for the phone (20x36months = 720). Some people pay off the phone monthly with the service charge so the phone cost would already be included in that if you do that.