Why are we okay with Metal Gear languishing?

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Ezekiel

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The Metal Gear series was once more popular than Resident Evil and even Tomb Raider.

Resident Evil series sold 24 million copies by 2008.

Tomb Raider series sold 38 million copies by 2008.

Metal Gear series sold 57.7 million copies by 2010. I could not find the 2008 or 2009 numbers.

Konami's poor decisions led to the series dying out. They should have kept making new games after Hideo Kojima's separation. Remakes and remasters (generous term for ports of the old HD Collection) don't excite players like something completely new.

Solid Snake and Big Boss are done, but they could have easily kept up the momentum with a new character. Resident Evil continued to grow without its most popular character, Leon. A new protagonist and villains in the future would have finally freed the Metal Gear series from the retcons that became harder to stomach as the prequels went on, including technology that comically moved ahead of what Solid Snake faced and used later. No longer stuck in the 1970s and '80s, the games could have explored current day technology and politics in the way MGS and MGS2 did.

I'm not gonna defend Silent Hill f, but it shows at least that Konami is still willing to make big original productions. All the fans talk about is which game should be remade next, apparently lacking the imagination to see beyond. The series won't recover with remakes. It's far too late to catch up to Resident Evil and Tomb Raider, but it's depressing that they won't even try to revive it, because the concept is still fun and Metal Gear would fill an untapped market. Every other game now has dumbed down, simplistic stealth with myopic enemies who hardly investigate and instantly forget. There is no game that specializes in stealth-action anymore.
 

Gordon_4

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If I had to guess, I would say it’s because Konami - probably correctly - realises that Metal Gear without Hideo Kojima as it’s main creative driving force isn’t likely to sell the kind of numbers they’d want to see. Remakes/Remasters are largely exempt from that because it’s usually just a visual uplift.

Honestly if they want to get a tactical espionage game on the board, I’d be all for it but I’d caution against invoking the Metal Gear name. It conjures a very specific image in the heads of gaming folk. Metal Gear and Splinter Cell are both games about espionage operatives but share fuck all similarity beyond that. Probably better to just do a new game with new characters.
 

PsychedelicDiamond

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It could be attributed primarily to the work of one single guy. That one single guy can't (and likely doesn't particularly want to) work on it anymore.

Metal Gear spin offs without Kojima were hit or miss, and, honestly, leaning on the miss side. Like, which ones do people actually enjoy, Revengeance and Ghost Babel? No one liked Survive.
 

Ezekiel

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It could be attributed primarily to the work of one single guy. That one single guy can't (and likely doesn't particularly want to) work on it anymore.

Metal Gear spin offs without Kojima were hit or miss, and, honestly, leaning on the miss side. Like, which ones do people actually enjoy, Revengeance and Ghost Babel? No one liked Survive.
Survive wasn't a hearted effort at all. You know that.

Revengeance is not stealth-action and has a different tone. It was made for different people. Not to suggest that there aren't many players who enjoy both. I'm not a fan of the cyborg, basically Grey Fox #3 (second one being Olga), made as an unneeded apology for MGS2. He's a far lesser character than the pretty boy who complained his tummy hurt. The series needs a new protagonist.

I liked Ghost Babel, but the top-down games can't compare to the 3D ones in terms of popularity.
 

Brokencontroller

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I think Konami making Metal Gear without Kojima wouldn't sit well with people even though someone else could probably make just as good of a MG game if not better because Kojima is a madman. But fans are fickle and they likely wouldn't be on board.

Also Konami itself is just kind of a mess in general and seems to me more interested in making gambling machines over games. Despite Silent Hill doing okay as of late.
 

bluegate

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There's a Metal Gear shaped hole in my heart, but I don't know if Konami would be able to properly fill it.
 

Phoenixmgs

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If I had to guess, I would say it’s because Konami - probably correctly - realises that Metal Gear without Hideo Kojima as it’s main creative driving force isn’t likely to sell the kind of numbers they’d want to see. Remakes/Remasters are largely exempt from that because it’s usually just a visual uplift.
This, I don't think you could do Metal Gear without Kojima. Kojima is responsible for too many of the elements that make Metal Gear Metal Gear, and not just the gameplay or general art style, the way he wrote characters and themes, and he threw in all these elements that just shouldn't work but somehow did. Metal Gear is a one of kind in the gaming industry, I don't think any other series had the same creative director working on it for IIRC 25+ years, especially when you consider that Konami essentially gave him a blank check to do whatever the fuck he wanted to do. Sure, you may say so-and-so creative director was on XYZ series in some capacity for 20 years, but I doubt they were given complete unfiltered freedom to do whatever they wanted. I don't think Metal Gear has ever happened in the AAA gaming space and I don't think it will ever happen again.
 
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meiam

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Stealth game are also not that big seller, its a pretty niche market that Kojima was able to expand trough sheer clout and originality.
 
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I’d put my money down for a new MGS with Kojima at the helm. Next best (better?) thing would be whatever he’s cooking up that’s supposedly a spiritual successor to it within his current studio.
 

BrawlMan

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This doesn't bother me much. I am happy for the Snake Eater Remake doing great. There is not much left to do with this franchise, other than sequel to Rising. Which most people and fans still want, including me. At least people get the oppurtunites to play the originals with the Metal Gear Solid Collection, and Volume 2 comes out later this year. I have no obsessive need for the past, then acting like some contrarian who thinks they're better than everyone else by being supposedly being "above it" all in the same breath.

Konami is actually making new games again. Sure, they're still outsourcing to developers, but it's developers who actually care about the quality they put into their games. Also, they are hiring upcoming Japanese devs who graduated from game design as their degree, and Konami has one new original IP under their belt coming out next year. I would not be surprised when more in-house games start releasing. They kicked the mobile/pachinko guy out and put him into meaningless position. Excellent news.


 
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Hades

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This doesn't bother me much. I am happy for the Snake Eater Remake doing great. There is not much left to do with this franchise, other than sequel to Rising. Which most people and fans still want, including me.
Couldn't you theoretically flesh out Big Boss and Outer heaven as villains by remaking the very first game? Or a game with Big Boss creating it by teaming up with the bosses from that game.
 

BrawlMan

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Couldn't you theoretically flesh out Big Boss and Outer heaven as villains by remaking the very first game?
Yes, but that's just reaching old ground again. There wouldn't be much to expand upon other than some personalities for the bosses. There's been enough changing and retconning already, and I feel this wouldn't really do anything.

Don't forget that MG2, MGS1, and MGS2 are pretty much glorified remix of the original, but the meta and story has changed around them, and with MGS2 it's made intentionally.
 

Agema

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Why are we okay with Metal Gear languishing?
Why bring it back?

Regression to the mean: a series that starts great is only likely to move towards average. We see that all the time - for instance in computer games (Tomb Raider, as mentioned). We see it in films (Star Wars, Alien), and in TV. Whether Kojima was involved or not, Metal Gear would almost certainly end up heading that way.

It can be sad to see a much-loved creation lie idle. But perhaps that's also less painful than experiencing its greatness be increasingly sullied by mediocrity.
 

Ezekiel

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Why bring it back?

Regression to the mean: a series that starts great is only likely to move towards average. We see that all the time - for instance in computer games (Tomb Raider, as mentioned). We see it in films (Star Wars, Alien), and in TV. Whether Kojima was involved or not, Metal Gear would almost certainly end up heading that way.

It can be sad to see a much-loved creation lie idle. But perhaps that's also less painful than experiencing its greatness be increasingly sullied by mediocrity.
Metal Gear has already been almost there since MGS4 in my opinion. Much prefer MGS1, 2 and 3 over 4, Peace Walker and 5. Did not care for the base management and flying in and out of missions at all. Thought it took away from the sense of adventure, that procure-on-site survival element. Tactical Espionage Action > Tactical Espionage Operations.

4 is an impressive game in many respects, but annoyed me for explaining things that didn't need to be explained (Vamp's nanomachines don't even explain all his vampire powers. He was better as just a presumed vampire.) and being all fanservice, with almost no new characters, except Drebin who made fun of the pacifism theme with his 500 guns and the Beauty and Beast Unit, mutes who lacked the characterization of the bosses in MGS1 and 2 ( Foxhound and Dead Cell). Of course the B&B Unit were later followed by Quiet, the mute slut. The Cobra Unit in MGS3 also spoke little and had little impact on the story (except maybe The Sorrow), unlike bosses in previous games, but it could kind of be forgiven there because the story centered so much on Snake's relationship with the boss and the spying. Old Eva was a pretty lame return, since she was just a tool in MGS3 and should have disappeared into history, but Big Boss's burned corpse coming back from the dead of course takes the cake. Nanomachines, nanomachines, nanomachines. That REX versus RAY fight that everyone creamed themselves over was just fanservice. Embarrassing fanservice. Kojima should have tried to tell a cohesive story that gives the gameplay plenty of room to breathe, instead of trying to please everyone.

Peace Walker started those shitty operations and base management that killed the sense of adventure, but I know it was a portable game not intended for my PS3, so I can't complain too much. Still, bringing The Boss back as a far-futuristic AI in the 1970s bothered me immensely. Why can't Kojima leave his dead characters alone? More retcons, like the stuff with Hal Emmerich's father. Metal Gears that preceded the very first in Metal Gear (1987).

The story of 5 was too uninteresting to even comment on, vital info now relegated to tapes. What's actually there is stretched over so many dozens of hours between missions and base management that it's the only numbered Metal Gear Solid game that I will never replay. More retcons, more tech that doesn't make sense for the time if you look at what Solid Snake dealt with later. Only one human boss from what I remember.

So yeah, I think it already declined significantly. I want to see it reclaim some of its former glory. Make a linear game again, for the best level design. A good linear game will always be better than an open world game made with the same talent, money and care, since the devs aren't running themselves thin.

Edit: I forgot Portable Ops started the operations. The one I never played. Well, that and the Acid games.
 
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Ezekiel

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I wish MGS4 and its sequels let you shoot from the normal camera, like all the previous games. CQC and shoot did not need to share the same button.
 
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A good linear game will always be better than an open world game made with the same talent, money and care, since the devs aren't running themselves thin.
Are GTA 1/2 really better than everything that followed?
 

Ezekiel

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Are GTA 1/2 really better than everything that followed?
GTA and GTA 2 are open world. Let's stick with 3D so as to not overcomplicate the conversation.

As for "only Kojima can do it," I believe there has to be the right talent out there, a person or potential duo who truly understand(s) game design and storytelling, but Konami needs to let them cook, like they let Kojima cook. Delta is so standardized in ways that conflict with the original game design. The "legacy" controls are a mess too.
 
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Ezekiel

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Let the rookie creatives first prove themselves with cheap "2D" Metal Gear games like the two MSX games (and Ghost Babel), but give them the freedom that you would not provide to creatives of a AAA production. OH MY GOD, THAT'S IT!!! The new protagonist (The first woman?) is introduced in two pixel or drawn stealth-action adventure games. The director and writer learn good game design and interactive storytelling. They can experiment in ways risk-averse AAA never does anymore. Cutscenes are drawn still images. The games are completed relatively quickly. When the creators are ready, let them make their big 3D "Solid" game in the world they have already developed for years. Their "2D" characters are fully realized in 3D. Obviously, don't call the "Solid" game Metal Gear Solid 6, because that would make the position of the two smaller games in the timeline confusing. These chronological followups to MGS4, set far enough in the future to be free from its baggage, would be called something like Metal Gear Cake 1, 2 and 3, but number 3 would be the equivalent leap of 1998's Metal Gear Solid. If the creators succeeded with the first two games, they earned the right to make the big one mostly as they desire.

Publishers don't even let creatives start IPs from humble beginnings, like Kojima did. They never get to test ideas. Immediately they have to make a 200 million dollar slop game that treats the player like an idiot.