Crimson Desert is a real game

Recommended Videos

PsychedelicDiamond

Wild at Heart and weird on top
Legacy
Jan 30, 2011
2,373
1,335
118
That only applies to linear games, not games where you can just set forth from chapter 1 and not do any main quests and just explore and get lost in the world for tens of hours. Can you imagine if Skyrim was handled this way? Do you remember its reviews and how each person had their own little adventure based on which direction they set forth towards, all of them ignoring the main quest? Same thing here.

Like I had a good 10 hours before even getting the grappling hook and flight just running around doing things.


I can see if you are a psycho and just ignore 99% of the stuff in front of you and just do the 3 main quests back to back how that could be boring but the same could be said regarding skyrim too and in neither case it would be a reasonable criticism.


I think the issue here is that some of the people judging the game just didn't care to actually enjoy it so they phoned it in, meanwhile most people back in the day were super excited about skyrim and put in the necessary effort towards enjoying it.
Oh, Crimson Desert's main quest is a lot more engaging than that of the average Bethesda game. I couldn't name you a single thing that happened in Fallout 4's or Skyrim's. And the only thing I remember about that of Fallout 3 is that the climax involved a giant robot and at the end you had to sacrifice yourself for no reason.

And let's not even bring up Starfield. I didn't even finish it, and there's a reason for that. And it's not because it's particularly long.
 

Dreiko

Elite Member
Legacy
May 1, 2020
3,276
1,214
118
CT
Country
usa
Gender
male, pronouns: your majesty/my lord/daddy
Oh, Crimson Desert's main quest is a lot more engaging than that of the average Bethesda game. I couldn't name you a single thing that happened in Fallout 4's or Skyrim's. And the only thing I remember about that of Fallout 3 is that the climax involved a giant robot and at the end you had to sacrifice yourself for no reason.

And let's not even bring up Starfield. I didn't even finish it, and there's a reason for that. And it's not because it's particularly long.
Right which makes my point for me cause people didn't seem to have this issue of getting bored of skyrim cause the main quest was plain and generic cause the game had so much else to do. They just opted to do it in its case.
 

Gordon_4

The Big Engine
Legacy
Apr 3, 2020
7,383
6,538
118
Australia
That only applies to linear games, not games where you can just set forth from chapter 1 and not do any main quests and just explore and get lost in the world for tens of hours. Can you imagine if Skyrim was handled this way? Do you remember its reviews and how each person had their own little adventure based on which direction they set forth towards, all of them ignoring the main quest? Same thing here.
I didn't pay much attention to Skyrim's reviews because I took Oblivion on faith and found it to be utter garbage so whenever someone tried to shove the game at me I told them to jog on. And by the way, even back in 2011 when it came out, that recommendation was almost always accompanied by a list of mods; because Bethesda cannot make a game engaging on its own to save their fucking life it seems.


I can see if you are a psycho and just ignore 99% of the stuff in front of you and just do the 3 main quests back to back how that could be boring but the same could be said regarding skyrim too and in neither case it would be a reasonable criticism.
Even in open world games, the critical path is the path I'm most interested in because that tends to be the story, a big attraction to the RPG and Action RPG genre. So at least some ground work should be laid within the first few hours to generate some interest in the main questline if only to provide an incentive for the player to return to it once their current bout of side questing has come to an end.


I think the issue here is that some of the people judging the game just didn't care to actually enjoy it so they phoned it in, meanwhile most people back in the day were super excited about skyrim and put in the necessary effort towards enjoying it.
If they didn't care to enjoy it - a statement that to me makes no sense - then I'd argue the game in-fact sucks for the player and no amount of browbeating or promises of improvement in another six to seven hours will ever work.
 

Dreiko

Elite Member
Legacy
May 1, 2020
3,276
1,214
118
CT
Country
usa
Gender
male, pronouns: your majesty/my lord/daddy
I didn't pay much attention to Skyrim's reviews because I took Oblivion on faith and found it to be utter garbage so whenever someone tried to shove the game at me I told them to jog on. And by the way, even back in 2011 when it came out, that recommendation was almost always accompanied by a list of mods; because Bethesda cannot make a game engaging on its own to save their fucking life it seems.




Even in open world games, the critical path is the path I'm most interested in because that tends to be the story, a big attraction to the RPG and Action RPG genre. So at least some ground work should be laid within the first few hours to generate some interest in the main questline if only to provide an incentive for the player to return to it once their current bout of side questing has come to an end.
Good thing the game isn’t an rpg or arpg then. It’s more of an open world dmc. Combat and exploration are the core engagement.


If they didn't care to enjoy it - a statement that to me makes no sense - then I'd argue the game in-fact sucks for the player and no amount of browbeating or promises of improvement in another six to seven hours will ever work.
You think reviewers are excited about every game they have to review as part of their job? I think it’s more of the exception that they’d be excited and care about enjoying a game as opposed to the rule. Typically most of their reviews are a job to them. Something they rush out under stress to earn a living.

If a game doesn’t have big money behind it and isn’t a known entity and doesn’t scratch that particular reviewer’s niche, the odds are stacked against it.
 
Jun 11, 2023
4,227
2,930
118
Country
United States
Gender
Male
If a game doesn’t have big money behind it and isn’t a known entity and doesn’t scratch that particular reviewer’s niche, the odds are stacked against it.
The expectations are much higher if it does though, so knowing that it’d better be good. The problem with Bethesda games in general seems to be that despite having both big money and notoriety, it takes modders doing things for free to breath some life into them after the pub already made its money.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BrawlMan

PsychedelicDiamond

Wild at Heart and weird on top
Legacy
Jan 30, 2011
2,373
1,335
118
Even in open world games, the critical path is the path I'm most interested in because that tends to be the story, a big attraction to the RPG and Action RPG genre. So at least some ground work should be laid within the first few hours to generate some interest in the main questline if only to provide an incentive for the player to return to it once their current bout of side questing has come to an end.
Well, you know what they say, you start off saving cats, you end up killing gods. And the god killing wouldn't be as satisfying if you couldn't look back on the cat saving and realize how far you've come.

Crimson Desert establishes very early on that there's a metaphysical component to its story and you will be saving the world eventually, the fact that the chapter that comes after is spent helping a noble drive out bandits doesn't detract from that, necessarily. It's just a long game, things develop long term. By chapter 3 you'll have your band of mercenaries back, by Chapter 4 the bigger picture metaphysical stuff comes back and by Chapter 6 all the political tensions and with them the huge epic battles.

The expectations are much higher if it does though, so knowing that it’d better be good. The problem with Bethesda games in general seems to be that despite having both big money and notoriety, it takes modders doing things for free to breath some life into them after the pub already made its money.
Straight up, I think Bethesda's been running on fumes for a long time. I understand why Morrowind is great, even though it was never exactly my bag. I admire how ambitious Oblivion is and how involved some of its quest design is, even though it already showed Bethesda's big weaknesses, main quest and character writing. Skyrim was Oblivion with almost everything interesting streamlined away and worse quests. Fallout 3, 4, and Starfield are just kind of a meme, honestly.

Fallout 3 was impressive until Obsidian went and made what's basically the same game, except good. Apart from that, the Elder Scrolls games have been running off of some good writing Bethesda did 25 years ago and the Fallout games off good writing other people did 30 years ago. It took people until Starfield to realize just how outdated these games are on every level, and not in a charming way.
 
Last edited:

CriticalGaming

Elite Member
Legacy
Dec 28, 2017
12,053
6,299
118
Straight up, I think Bethesda's been running on fumes for a long time. I understand why Morrowind is great, even though it was never exactly my bag. I admire how ambitious Oblivion is and how involved some of its quest design is, even though it already showed Bethesda's big weaknesses, main quest and character writing. Skyrim was Oblivion with almost everything interesting streamlined away and worse quests. Fallout 3, 4, and Starfield are just kind of a meme, honestly.

Fallout 3 was impressive until Obsidian went and made what's basically the same game, except good. Apart from that, the Elder Scrolls games have been running off of some good writing Bethesda did 25 years ago and the Fallout games off good writing other people did 30 years ago. It took people until Starfield to realize just how outdated these games are on every level, and not in a charming way.
I don't think Bethesda was ever good, except in one aspect and that was the ability to make huge worlds. Much like Crimson Desert actually where the game is wide as an ocean but deep as a puddle. The scope for these titles is incredible, but the content in which you explore and exist within that world is minimal. Bethesda's gameplay has never once been anything i would ever call "good", at best it works kind of. They've never had deep RPG systems, complex mechanics, incredible storytelling, nothing but a big world has ever truly been great about anything Bethesda has ever done.

And for some people they love it, just a huge space to explore and find random shit. Crimson Desert does this, and so does every Bethesda game.

However I think for a lot of people the Bethesda jank that has always been in these games and namely Fallout 76's horrendous launch broke the spell that people were under. That and other very large but far better games started coming out and showing people that the Bethesda-ness can exist in games with far better gameplay, better stories, have next to zero bugs and no jank. Games like Witcher 3, Breath of the Wild, GTA V, plus any number of RPG's that have come out in the last 10 years with deep mechanics and systems.

Bethesda refuses to adapt or evolve or anything. Frankly I think they've taken steps backwards because Starfield is a loading screen festival that no other open world Bethesda game has ever dealt with before. Considering the amount of money that studio has, I can't fathom why they haven't invested in new writers and gameplay designers in order to bring their games up to a modern standard. Though I suppose it wont matter because their next game 10 years away and it'll be outdated by then eve if they hired top talent today.
 

Old_Hunter_77

Elite Member
Dec 29, 2021
2,854
2,657
118
Country
United States
Two more observations about this game:

1- Apparently the CEO admitted the story of the game sucks. Lol. $70 game.
2- The astro-turfing around this game in subreddits, youtube comments, and other gaming "discourse" spaces now blackens the game's reputation for me. It seems to be some avatar for the anti-woke right-wing racist grifter crowd.

So, as of now, f*** this game.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BrawlMan

BrawlMan

Lover of beat'em ups.
Legacy
Mar 10, 2016
34,708
14,239
118
Detroit, Michigan
Country
United States of America
Gender
Male
. It seems to be some avatar for the anti-woke right-wing racist grifter crowd.
The game did well without them at last.I checked the developers aren't championing that crowd either. You know how the aw work at this point. The parasites that latch and leach off of anything, just so they can always be heard, or act as if they're fighting a winning battle of some kind that will never end, no matter how much they claim to be. Fuck them and ignore them. Play this game for the right reasons or don't play this game for the right reasons. Whatever decision, don't do it because of these fools.
 

Old_Hunter_77

Elite Member
Dec 29, 2021
2,854
2,657
118
Country
United States
The game did well without them at last.I checked the developers aren't championing that crowd either. You know how the aw work at this point. The parasites that latch and leach off of anything, just so they can always be heard, or act as if they're fighting a winning battle of some kind that will never end, no matter how much they claim to be. Fuck them and ignore them. Play this game for the right reasons or don't play this game for the right reasons. Whatever decision, don't do it because of these fools.
Yeah.

You know me, my posts are snapshots of the moment. The real real opinion is that this is a deep discount game and that's really the same. But just right now, in this moment, seeing the trend, it's like.. blech.

I'm legit more annoyed/amused at the CEO admitting the game's story sucks. I understand a crap story is ok with some and I used to think that way too but after the last couple AssCreeds and bunch of metroidvanias I attempted I just realize that I don't accept bad story as ok any more. At least not for a game with a, you know... story.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BrawlMan

PsychedelicDiamond

Wild at Heart and weird on top
Legacy
Jan 30, 2011
2,373
1,335
118
Yeah.

You know me, my posts are snapshots of the moment. The real real opinion is that this is a deep discount game and that's really the same. But just right now, in this moment, seeing the trend, it's like.. blech.

I'm legit more annoyed/amused at the CEO admitting the game's story sucks. I understand a crap story is ok with some and I used to think that way too but after the last couple AssCreeds and bunch of metroidvanias I attempted I just realize that I don't accept bad story as ok any more. At least not for a game with a, you know... story.
He didn't say that, he said that he empathizes with the people who criticized it and wishes he there would have been more time to fill in some gaps, but they chose to polish up the gameplay instead. The story's good, but yes, it could have used more direct exposition and relied less on optional documents, memory fragments (basically the games version of audio logs) and the glossary to relay it. But it's far from actually bad.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: BrawlMan

Agema

Overhead a rainbow appears... in black and white
Legacy
Mar 3, 2009
10,984
7,945
118
The problem with Bethesda games in general seems to be that despite having both big money and notoriety, it takes modders doing things for free to breath some life into them after the pub already made its money.
I'm not sure that's a problem, in fact I think it's a design feature.

For all the budget and stuff, dev teams are still limited - staffing, budget, resources, deadlines etc. Say, a team of 500, but most of them are doing what we could call "grunt work" (basic coding, assets, etc.) and the people designing the really creative stuff might only a dozen or two.

Then they release it, and suddenly via the modding community there are hundreds, thousands of designers and creators, they don't need to paid, they've not got a time limit. They chat amongst themselves, bat around ideas on forums to select what's good, etc. The devs have done the basic grunt work, and now this bunch of people, plenty of whom are immensely talented, can go out and build on it. All those modders with all that time and thought mean that you should expect that they will make a lot of stuff better than the base game.

And I say a design feature because I think Bethesda know that, and that much of the popularity and longevity of their games is creating a platform for modders to do their stuff. I think this might have a major intent of Starfield: Starfield has hundreds of basically empty planets with repetitive procedural encounters. One can argue that's just a boring, empty waste. But I think Bethesda might have had a potentially great idea in there: imagine hundreds of empty planets in the context of a vibrant modding community. It's vast canvas for hundreds of people to paint their own visions. Unfortunately, what they missed is that if the game isn't sufficiently compelling, the modders aren't so likely to come, either.
 

Phoenixmgs

The Muse of Fate
Legacy
Apr 3, 2020
11,057
928
118
w/ M'Kraan Crystal
Gender
Male
Yeah.

You know me, my posts are snapshots of the moment. The real real opinion is that this is a deep discount game and that's really the same. But just right now, in this moment, seeing the trend, it's like.. blech.

I'm legit more annoyed/amused at the CEO admitting the game's story sucks. I understand a crap story is ok with some and I used to think that way too but after the last couple AssCreeds and bunch of metroidvanias I attempted I just realize that I don't accept bad story as ok any more. At least not for a game with a, you know... story.
The game is either worth your time or not, I don't understand the idea of waiting for it to be discounted. Sure, if you are currently playing another game or more interested in playing other games first and by the time you'd get to wanting to play, in this case, Crimson Desert, it would be cheaper because it isn't new anymore.

I also don't get people actually expecting a good story in a video game, the writing quality is so low in the medium (as the vast vast majority of good writers write for the other mediums), story is the last reason you should be wanting to play a game. Even in games that are praised for having a good story, only like 10% of those have anything that I'd consider actually good. Then, you have the other 99% of games that mainly just have stories to string-line you from point to point like a Jackie Chan action movie.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ezekiel

BrawlMan

Lover of beat'em ups.
Legacy
Mar 10, 2016
34,708
14,239
118
Detroit, Michigan
Country
United States of America
Gender
Male
I don't accept bad story as ok any more. At least not for a game with a, you know... story.
I'm glad to see you have upped your standards. I am still a gameplay over story person, but if a story's good, I am not gonna cry about it. I don't blame you on waiting for a discount, and there's nothing wrong with that. Don't let anyone else tell you differently. I've gotten plenty of games at a discount for one reason or another. Not All the time but I was usually happy to get the game if deemed it worth my time.
 

Old_Hunter_77

Elite Member
Dec 29, 2021
2,854
2,657
118
Country
United States
The game is either worth your time or not, I don't understand the idea of waiting for it to be discounted. Sure, if you are currently playing another game or more interested in playing other games first and by the time you'd get to wanting to play, in this case, Crimson Desert, it would be cheaper because it isn't new anymore.

I also don't get people actually expecting a good story in a video game, the writing quality is so low in the medium (as the vast vast majority of good writers write for the other mediums), story is the last reason you should be wanting to play a game. Even in games that are praised for having a good story, only like 10% of those have anything that I'd consider actually good. Then, you have the other 99% of games that mainly just have stories to string-line you from point to point like a Jackie Chan action movie.
What is there to understand about waiting for a discount. Discount = cheaper. You like paying more money for things? Some games (or movies or whatevers) are of varying degrees of interest. Crimson Desert is not worth my time now or $70. Maybe in the future, when it's $20, it will be worth it. Maybe it will never be. I think most people logically make decisions on their entertainment purchases like this.

As for story- this is something I've posted about a lot before, but "good story" in video games doesn't mean the same as "good story" in a movie or book. My high water for "good story" in gaming is the Witcher 3, not because the plot is something that is brilliant (find and save magical girl), but because the quest design is narratively rewarding and interesting, and the situations are fun to be in. Call it a bunch of little good stories if you like.
Heck, Bloodborne has a good story. The experience of coming across Rom the Vacuous Spider in the abandoned college and realizing after a few attempts that its in pain and vulnerable despite its power, then killing it to reveal the blood moon and the truer depths of the hunt- that is an amazing story. But it's not one that translate to straight narrative, it's experiential. Because it fits the gameplay and the art and setting.

Crimson Desert seems to have quests and goals and factions, so it has the trappings of a linear narrative story. All it needs to be a decent story is that the goals of the characters make sense to them, that there are payoffs to open questions. Otherwise why put in dialogue and cut scenes? Yet the consensus from players and critics- including those that enjoy the game, and the freaking CEO of the company- is that the story is a bunch of bullshit. And if you or others don't care, that's your business, but I care enough to pay $70 now.
 

Xprimentyl

Made you look...
Legacy
Aug 13, 2011
7,515
5,910
118
Country
United States
Gender
Male
What is there to understand about waiting for a discount. Discount = cheaper.
Guilty. But to be fair, this is the first time in literally over a decade that I jumped on a game at full-price. What's sad is, I bought it a couple of weeks ago, and have literally played it all of 10 minutes. I've booted it up three times, even re-started two of those times, trying to get my head in the game, but am simply overwhelmed with all the mechanics is tries to throw at you, and trying to pay attention to the dialogue and story, ugh. I feel like I've been spoiled by FROM worlds that introduce you to the basics, then throw you to the wolves to explore and experience at your own pace. I'm 10 minutes in, and already there's factions, names to remember, allegiances I'm supposed to be invested in by virtue of buying the game and controlling a non-player created character, etc. It sounds really dumb on my part, but I will jump in in earnest at some point, hopefully it's well before any substantive discount to make me look like even more of a jackass, i.e.: I hope to update this thread with my own progress well before the shine has worn off and the rest of the world has all but forgotten about it, and I have to dig 3-4 pages into the forum to find this topic again..
 
  • Like
Reactions: BrawlMan

FakeSympathy

Elite Member
Legacy
Jun 8, 2015
4,414
4,319
118
Seattle, WA
Country
US
70 hours in. And now I hit that wall when it comes to any sandbox games that I've played, or open-world in general.

You know, that wall where you lose all focus, you can't decide what to do next because there are so many things to do, and because you spent so many early hours exploring all you feel is a sense of overwhelm and the game feeling like a chore.

It's like if I play more for the story, then I am essentially following the path that was already laid out for me, not to mention being ther weakest part of the game. But if I go out and explore, I am constantly running into roadblocks that are meant to be cleared with an ability you unlock later, and I am quesitoning "what is the point of doing all this"

Nothing really feels "structured", and kinda like with BOTW/TOTK, the only way to make the combat fun is by going crazy with creativity and utilizing the button combinations well. If you try to fight in more grounded, traditional sense, you will have more miserable time.

I was wondering why I loved RDR2 so much but not this game as much when they are both open-world sandbox, then I finally came to realize that RDR2 is more "grounded" experience, where you can still do well in combat without quick-switching weapons, spells, or crazy button inputs.

So yeah, I guess sandbox + open-world really isn't my cup of tea; I prefer "play your own way" style when the game is more linear like Dishonored, Bioshock, Half-life 2.

Really close to taking an indefinite hiatus from this game.....
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: BrawlMan

Old_Hunter_77

Elite Member
Dec 29, 2021
2,854
2,657
118
Country
United States
Guilty. But to be fair, this is the first time in literally over a decade that I jumped on a game at full-price. What's sad is, I bought it a couple of weeks ago, and have literally played it all of 10 minutes. I've booted it up three times, even re-started two of those times, trying to get my head in the game, but am simply overwhelmed with all the mechanics is tries to throw at you, and trying to pay attention to the dialogue and story, ugh. I feel like I've been spoiled by FROM worlds that introduce you to the basics, then throw you to the wolves to explore and experience at your own pace. I'm 10 minutes in, and already there's factions, names to remember, allegiances I'm supposed to be invested in by virtue of buying the game and controlling a non-player created character, etc. It sounds really dumb on my part, but I will jump in in earnest at some point, hopefully it's well before any substantive discount to make me look like even more of a jackass, i.e.: I hope to update this thread with my own progress well before the shine has worn off and the rest of the world has all but forgotten about it, and I have to dig 3-4 pages into the forum to find this topic again..
Can't you return it? < 2 hrs on Steam? Or did you buy it digital on Playstation or Nintendo?

Either way I hope you eventually find your fun with it. The consensus I read, even from fans, is that the first 10 hours are blech but then if you like to faff about and dig into the combat it can be all kinds of fun for what it does have to offer.
 

Phoenixmgs

The Muse of Fate
Legacy
Apr 3, 2020
11,057
928
118
w/ M'Kraan Crystal
Gender
Male
What is there to understand about waiting for a discount. Discount = cheaper. You like paying more money for things? Some games (or movies or whatevers) are of varying degrees of interest. Crimson Desert is not worth my time now or $70. Maybe in the future, when it's $20, it will be worth it. Maybe it will never be. I think most people logically make decisions on their entertainment purchases like this.

As for story- this is something I've posted about a lot before, but "good story" in video games doesn't mean the same as "good story" in a movie or book. My high water for "good story" in gaming is the Witcher 3, not because the plot is something that is brilliant (find and save magical girl), but because the quest design is narratively rewarding and interesting, and the situations are fun to be in. Call it a bunch of little good stories if you like.
Heck, Bloodborne has a good story. The experience of coming across Rom the Vacuous Spider in the abandoned college and realizing after a few attempts that its in pain and vulnerable despite its power, then killing it to reveal the blood moon and the truer depths of the hunt- that is an amazing story. But it's not one that translate to straight narrative, it's experiential. Because it fits the gameplay and the art and setting.

Crimson Desert seems to have quests and goals and factions, so it has the trappings of a linear narrative story. All it needs to be a decent story is that the goals of the characters make sense to them, that there are payoffs to open questions. Otherwise why put in dialogue and cut scenes? Yet the consensus from players and critics- including those that enjoy the game, and the freaking CEO of the company- is that the story is a bunch of bullshit. And if you or others don't care, that's your business, but I care enough to pay $70 now.
I understand wanting to pay less for things obviously. With video games, the game being worth my time to play is far more important than the price. I'm not going to play a game that is free that I don't feel is worth playing. Video games as a hobby are such a low cost hobby (assuming you're not playing those microtransaction based games) that I honestly don't care much about the price. What hobby on a per hour cost is cheaper than video gaming? Going to see a movie is at least a $5/hour; at least $10 for a movie and they are about 2 hours on average. If Crimson Desert (or whatever open world type game like it) is entertaining you for 50-100 hours, then you ain't beating that cost per hour doing anything else regardless if you paid $70 or $20 for the game. Saying a game isn't worth $70 but you'd buy it for $40 just seems really dumb to me.

Actually being entertained by the dialogue/cutscenes is what I'd call a good writing regardless if it's something like Disco Elysium or something cheese-y B-movie level like Bayonetta. The vast majority of games, I'm not at all interested by the characters or dialogue or cutscenes. Witcher 3 keeps you interested and entertained by the story/characters, but the gameplay was pretty ass in my opinion so I really didn't enjoy playing the game. I would've preferred watching essentially a "movie" of the game that someone edited together so I wouldn't have had to play it. Hence, why gameplay is the main thing I care about (assuming the game isn't like a Telltale type game obviously) because I will be interacting with the gameplay more than I will be interacting with the story. If the story is good, then it's a nice bonus basically and is not going to be reason I play or don't play the game.