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As for CBP One, you are again misrepresenting the process.

The app was not an automatic-entry pass. It was a scheduling tool used to arrange appointments for processing and asylum claims at ports of entry.

Using the app no more "guaranteed admission" than using Calendly guarantees you a job offer. It scheduled the appointment; the claim still had to be evaluated through the legal process.
I didn't say the app was an automatic entry pass, I said people were allowed entry into the US that had used the app.

Under US President Joe Biden, individuals who registered for an appointment with US Customs and Border Protection (CBP) were preliminarily vetted and granted temporary legal status in the US as their asylum cases were adjudicated.


You keep responding as though I claimed "ICE detainers are inherently unconstitutional."

I did not.

What I said is that ICE detainers alone are often insufficient legal basis to continue holding someone after lawful state/local custody ends.

That distinction matters.

An ICE detainer is a request from ICE asking a local jail to continue holding someone so ICE can assume custody. Courts have repeatedly ruled that if a jail holds someone past their lawful release time solely because of that request, without independent probable cause or a judicial warrant, that can violate the Fourth Amendment.

That is not a fringe claim. It is established caselaw.

Examples include:

Miranda-Olivares v. Clarkamas County: continued detention solely on an ICE detainer violated the Fourth Amendment.

Galarza v. Szalczyk: ICE detainers are requests, not mandatory commands, and local jurisdictions can be liable for unlawful detention if they honor them without lawful basis.

Morales v. Chadbourne: detention based solely on an ICE detainer violated constitutional protections against unreasonable seizure.

Lunn v. Commonwealth: Massachusetts officers lacked authority to arrest solely on the basis of a civil ICE detainer.

And those are only a few examples:

So to reiterate: no, sanctuary jurisdictions are not “releasing criminals early just because they hate ICE.”

In many of these cases, the person had already:
  • completed their sentence,
  • posted bail,
  • had charges dropped,
    or
  • otherwise reached the point where state/local law required release.
The legal issue is whether the jail may continue detaining them after that point solely because ICE asked them to.

And courts have repeatedly said: not without sufficient legal authority.
Right, so a government agency issuing something unconstitutional is a thing.

As Asita says, issuing a detainer is not unconstitutional. But keeping someone incarcerated once all legal reasons to detain them have expired would be unconstitutional. And a detainer isn't a legal reason to keep someone incarcerated.
ICE doesn't use the judicial branch at all so asking them to have a judicial warrant to have people detained is not something they can do. ICE should be able to have people detained that are to be deported, that only makes sense so you don't need to another possible law enforcement interaction that could go poorly and endanger people. Either the current process is in accordance with constitutional rights (heard by SCOTUS) and if not, then the actual Immigration Act that created ICE needs to be reworked then.
 

Asita

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I didn't say the app was an automatic entry pass, I said people were allowed entry into the US that had used the app.

Under US President Joe Biden, individuals who registered for an appointment with US Customs and Border Protection (CBP) were preliminarily vetted and granted temporary legal status in the US as their asylum cases were adjudicated.
First of all: Really now? Shall I quote you then?

And I quote:
"Asylum seekers using the app were being allowed into the country just because they used the app."

Not only did you say that, you just said it in the very post I was responding to.

Second, your new pivot once again makes your invocation of CBP One completely irrelevant to the claim you invoked it to support: That it amounted to a causative factor of the border surge - rather than the appointment scheduling tool it actually was - and therefore a factor that made ICE's 2025-2026 actions appropriate as an equal and opposite response.

Let me put this to you very directly: Your entire argument is based on "desperate times require desperate measures" logic. And what you're pointing to to support that claim is improved efficiency in scheduling and hearing asylum cases. The change was in helping the government ability to promptly hold an asylum hearings to determine whether to accept or reject their application.

To use a presumably more familiar frame of reference for you, it's like adopting the use of an IT Ticketing system to help you better process tech support claims. It doesn't change the number of issues that occur. It doesn't change how the issues are dealt with. It just improves your ability to process them in a timely manner.


ICE doesn't use the judicial branch at all so asking them to have a judicial warrant to have people detained is not something they can do. ICE should be able to have people detained that are to be deported, that only makes sense so you don't need to another possible law enforcement interaction that could go poorly and endanger people. Either the current process is in accordance with constitutional rights (heard by SCOTUS) and if not, then the actual Immigration Act that created ICE needs to be reworked then.
Let me be blunt here, Phoenix: Nobody gives a shit about how you assume the process should work. I explained to you how the process does work. You asked for case law supporting my claim that it actually does work that way, and I supplied it. You dismissing it out of hand and going "nuh-uh! I refuse to believe that, so it can't work that way!" means bupkis.

You're wrong, pure and simple. That is not a debatable point. You refusing to accept that and just doubling down will not change that.
 
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The Rogue Wolf

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Who knew that going with third-rate cheap replacements for critical staff might backfire? The Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency left the credentials for a number of its systems exposed in a public GitHub repository named "Private-CISA", apparently maintained by a third-party contractor (note: the agency has lost a third of its workforce since Trump returned to power).


“Passwords stored in plain text in a csv, backups in git, explicit commands to disable GitHub secrets detection feature,” Valadon wrote in an email. “I honestly believed that it was all fake before analyzing the content deeper. This is indeed the worst leak that I’ve witnessed in my career. It is obviously an individual’s mistake, but I believe that it might reveal internal practices.”
See, if they'd named it "Top-Seekret-Keep-Out" then everything would've been fine
 

Chimpzy

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Speaking of security, Trump Mobile allegedly got hacked already

Tho we shouldn't dismiss the possibility the doxxing is a core feature
 
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Phoenixmgs

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First of all: Really now? Shall I quote you then?

And I quote:
"Asylum seekers using the app were being allowed into the country just because they used the app."

Not only did you say that, you just said it in the very post I was responding to.

Second, your new pivot once again makes your invocation of CBP One completely irrelevant to the claim you invoked it to support: That it amounted to a causative factor of the border surge - rather than the appointment scheduling tool it actually was - and therefore a factor that made ICE's 2025-2026 actions appropriate as an equal and opposite response.

Let me put this to you very directly: Your entire argument is based on "desperate times require desperate measures" logic. And what you're pointing to to support that claim is improved efficiency in scheduling and hearing asylum cases. The change was in helping the government ability to promptly hold an asylum hearings to determine whether to accept or reject their application.

To use a presumably more familiar frame of reference for you, it's like adopting the use of an IT Ticketing system to help you better process tech support claims. It doesn't change the number of issues that occur. It doesn't change how the issues are dealt with. It just improves your ability to process them in a timely manner.




Let me be blunt here, Phoenix: Nobody gives a shit about how you assume the process should work. I explained to you how the process does work. You asked for case law supporting my claim that it actually does work that way, and I supplied it. You dismissing it out of hand and going "nuh-uh! I refuse to believe that, so it can't work that way!" means bupkis.

You're wrong, pure and simple. That is not a debatable point. You refusing to accept that and just doubling down will not change that.
My bad on that.

No, it doesn't. Asylum seekers don't need to be allowed into the US while they are waiting for their case to be heard. The problem is that there was a lot of asylum fraud and they were allowed in waiting for the case to be heard and then would never leave.

If someone got arrested for robbery, charged guilty, served time and they have order of removal, why wouldn't anyone be for a process to transfer that person to ICE afterward? That makes perfect logical sense. The fact that ICE detainers are still honored by most jurisdictions and people are held proves that it is not unconstitutional as of right now (or else that wouldn't be allowed anywhere in the country).
 

Asita

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No, it doesn't. Asylum seekers don't need to be allowed into the US while they are waiting for their case to be heard. The problem is that there was a lot of asylum fraud and they were allowed in waiting for the case to be heard and then would never leave.
Fear mongering about asylum seeking that tries to salvage your bullshit about the usage of CBP One as a causative factor of the spike at the border by vaguely pointing at the concept of 'asylum fraud', implicitly grossly exaggerating its prevalence.

The claim of "a lot of asylum fraud" is the result of misrepresnting rejected asylum claims (anywhere from 20%-50%) with asylum fraud.

For context: A 2015 Government Accountability Office report found that between fiscal years 2010 and 2014, asylum claims terminated by U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services because of fraud fell from 103 to 34. For comparison, the agency granted more than 76,000 asylum claims during that time.

Claims that "there is a lot of asylum fraud" are unsubstantiated by available data, and often rest on the mistaken assumption that the overall rate of rejections is indicative of the rate of fraud.

If someone got arrested for robbery, charged guilty, served time and they have order of removal, why wouldn't anyone be for a process to transfer that person to ICE afterward? That makes perfect logical sense. The fact that ICE detainers are still honored by most jurisdictions and people are held proves that it is not unconstitutional as of right now (or else that wouldn't be allowed anywhere in the country).
Once again, nobody gives a shit that you think what you said "makes perfect logical sense".

We are not talking about some hypothetical, some unknown that we have to suss out, nor are we talking about something up for debate. We are talking about what the law of the land is.

And you have been told. You specifically asked for and have been shown the case law supporting it. And you are still dismissing it out of hand explicitly because it doesn't match your presumption, and even seem to be going out of your way to misunderstand what you're told.

Since it feels like I have to repeat myself:

You keep responding as though I claimed "ICE detainers are inherently unconstitutional."​
I did not.​
What I said is that ICE detainers alone are often insufficient legal basis to continue holding someone after lawful state/local custody ends.​
That distinction matters.​
An ICE detainer is a request from ICE asking a local jail to continue holding someone so ICE can assume custody. Courts have repeatedly ruled that if a jail holds someone past their lawful release time solely because of that request, without independent probable cause or a judicial warrant, that can violate the Fourth Amendment.​
This is not a fringe claim. It is established case law.​

Which ties back to what I was telling you pages ago:

what is presented as "not honoring ICE detainers is - as I already said but you evidently failed to read - declining to hold people past their release date solely for ICE unless there’s a judicial warrant. (As without a judicial warrant that's a Fourth Amendment violation, which is to say against the law).​


So once again: You are wrong. That is not a negotiable point. You can either accept that like an adult and move on, or you can continue to go "nuh-uh" like a petulant child.
 
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Trunkage

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It's not an attack or an argument I'm making there, just a genuine statement. Lots of people on here make arguments I disagree with in a variety of ways, but you alone pull out things like "US cabinet members are DEI hires because they were picked over more competent candidates who can't speak English." I don't even know what that is, there isn't a train of logic to show the fault in, it just flatly doesn't make sense.
When people, like you, complained about DEI, they stated that incompetent minorities got jobs over white people who were more competent

This was generally not a true statement. It was a projection. Firstly, the demographic that got hurt most by removing DEI was veterans. Many veterans need help entering the workforce after being in a combat service. The reality of DEI is vastly different from the GOP's understanding of DEI. When the GOP was saying DEI was bad, it was because they wanted it to be 1950 again, where white men got a job over minorities because they were white, not because they were competent.

Eg. Everyone told Trump that the Iran war was a stupid idea. What happened over the last two months was predictable. It WAS predicted by English speakers and non-English speakers in the month beforehand. You do not need English to understand this, what you needed was history or geopolitics. Having English did not help Trump make a good decision. He just fired you. Right now, Trump stated that he is listening to Qatar and the UAE for advice about the war. Because English isn't as important, especially for a president who has translators. What is important is someone who gets results. Limiting yourself to English speakers can stop you from getting results

So, when I say: 'You are doing what you pretend DEI is - giving jobs to bad workers because they have attributes you want .' This is what I meant

They aren't DEI hires. You have a broken idea of what DEI is. EDIT: The GOP recalled how much like white men being superior in the 50s and thought that what DEI was doing. Trump placed incompetent people in places of power because he wanted Yes Men (people) and cannot stand anyone who disagrees with him. This is like the complaints about DEI if you replace minorities with the word toadies.

English is not as important as results. English cannot compensate for actual skills. I don't want you to do neurosurgery on me. It is not because you are an English speaker. It's because you are not a neurosurgeon. No amount of English can make you convince me that you can cut into my brain. I want a neurosurgeon. I don't care if they speak English or not
 
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Trunkage

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at least one traitor lost her job today. Just a shame about the reason.
Selling access to Trump so Trump gets bad ideas about Ukraine should have been the reason. It would not surprise me that she was passing secrets to Russia about the Iran war

Tulsi's second in command (I think, I cant remember his name now) took the off ramp at the start of the Iran War. Tulsi ran on a no war ticket, so she also had a hard decision then. She decided to back Trump with the war, while others quit, and now regrets it. So, I dare say she was going to be pushed out soon.
 
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Trunkage

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Fear mongering about asylum seeking that tries to salvage your bullshit about the usage of CBP One as a causative factor of the spike at the border by vaguely pointing at the concept of 'asylum fraud', implicitly grossly exaggerating its prevalence.

The claim of "a lot of asylum fraud" is the result of misrepresnting rejected asylum claims (anywhere from 20%-50%) with asylum fraud.

For context: A 2015 Government Accountability Office report found that between fiscal years 2010 and 2014, asylum claims terminated by U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services because of fraud fell from 103 to 34. For comparison, the agency granted more than 76,000 asylum claims during that time.

Claims that "there is a lot of asylum fraud" are unsubstantiated by available data, and often rest on the mistaken assumption that the overall rate of rejections is indicative of the rate of fraud.



Once again, nobody gives a shit that you think what you said "makes perfect logical sense".

We are not talking about some hypothetical, some unknown that we have to suss out, nor are we talking about something up for debate. We are talking about what the law of the land is.

And you have been told. You specifically asked for and have been shown the case law supporting it. And you are still dismissing it out of hand explicitly because it doesn't match your presumption, and even seem to be going out of your way to misunderstand what you're told.

Since it feels like I have to repeat myself:

You keep responding as though I claimed "ICE detainers are inherently unconstitutional."​
I did not.​
What I said is that ICE detainers alone are often insufficient legal basis to continue holding someone after lawful state/local custody ends.​
That distinction matters.​
An ICE detainer is a request from ICE asking a local jail to continue holding someone so ICE can assume custody. Courts have repeatedly ruled that if a jail holds someone past their lawful release time solely because of that request, without independent probable cause or a judicial warrant, that can violate the Fourth Amendment.​
This is not a fringe claim. It is established case law.​

Which ties back to what I was telling you pages ago:

what is presented as "not honoring ICE detainers is - as I already said but you evidently failed to read - declining to hold people past their release date solely for ICE unless there’s a judicial warrant. (As without a judicial warrant that's a Fourth Amendment violation, which is to say against the law).​


So once again: You are wrong. That is not a negotiable point. You can either accept that like an adult and move on, or you can continue to go "nuh-uh" like a petulant child.
Just to be clear, Phoenix made it clear that when he says Asylum Fruad, he means anyone who claims asylum. There is no legitimate asylum in his eyes
 

tstorm823

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When people, like you, complained about DEI, they stated that incompetent minorities got jobs over white people who were more competent

This was generally not a true statement. It was a projection. Firstly, the demographic that got hurt most by removing DEI was veterans. Many veterans need help entering the workforce after being in a combat service. The reality of DEI is vastly different from the GOP's understanding of DEI. When the GOP was saying DEI was bad, it was because they wanted it to be 1950 again, where white men got a job over minorities because they were white, not because they were competent.

Eg. Everyone told Trump that the Iran war was a stupid idea. What happened over the last two months was predictable. It WAS predicted by English speakers and non-English speakers in the month beforehand. You do not need English to understand this, what you needed was history or geopolitics. Having English did not help Trump make a good decision. He just fired you. Right now, Trump stated that he is listening to Qatar and the UAE for advice about the war. Because English isn't as important, especially for a president who has translators. What is important is someone who gets results. Limiting yourself to English speakers can stop you from getting results

So, when I say: 'You are doing what you pretend DEI is - giving jobs to bad workers because they have attributes you want .' This is what I meant

They aren't DEI hires. You have a broken idea of what DEI is. EDIT: The GOP recalled how much like white men being superior in the 50s and thought that what DEI was doing. Trump placed incompetent people in places of power because he wanted Yes Men (people) and cannot stand anyone who disagrees with him. This is like the complaints about DEI if you replace minorities with the word toadies.

English is not as important as results. English cannot compensate for actual skills. I don't want you to do neurosurgery on me. It is not because you are an English speaker. It's because you are not a neurosurgeon. No amount of English can make you convince me that you can cut into my brain. I want a neurosurgeon. I don't care if they speak English or not
This is truly manic ranting.
 

Hades

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While I would not particularly advise Trump to fire his staff and replace them with people that can't speak English its pretty clear that a large amount of people in the Trump government are indeed DEI hires: People chosen solely for their identity instead of their merit. In this case the identity being white with far right ideals.

Even the idea Trump chose his picks based on loyalty would be dubious since the whole party is slavishly loyal and there is thus no need to deliberately pick the least qualified of the bunch each time.

Take Pete Hegseth. The idea that a perpetual drunk with crusader fantasies (and complete lack of knowledge about the crusades) who never rose all that highly in the army was the best qualified to take his post is laughable. He got the job for being a white far right freak , not because he had any qualifications for the job.
 
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Silvanus

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People chosen solely for their identity instead of their merit. In this case the identity being white with far right ideals.
Maybe they are, but that wouldn't make them DEI hires, as the aim isn't to diversify or act with equity. We need new terminology, for when identity is a deciding factor, but only to ensure they're the same as everyone else.

Homogeneity hires?
 

Trunkage

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Maybe they are, but that wouldn't make them DEI hires, as the aim isn't to diversify or act with equity. We need new terminology, for when identity is a deciding factor, but only to ensure they're the same as everyone else.

Homogeneity hires?
No one was a DEI hire. Minorities got job and racists called them DEI hires

The complaints these racists used to say minorities did not deserves job is understandable and legitimatr. It's just they were strawmanning. The minorities did not match the complaints

Then these same idiots get minorities fired and put their white buddies in place that DO fulfill on these complaints. And they get a free pass

Id agree we need a new word. May I present the word White Supremicast
 
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Trunkage

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While I would not particularly advise Trump to fire his staff and replace them with people that can't speak English its pretty clear that a large amount of people in the Trump government are indeed DEI hires: People chosen solely for their identity instead of their merit. In this case the identity being white with far right ideals.

Even the idea Trump chose his picks based on loyalty would be dubious since the whole party is slavishly loyal and there is thus no need to deliberately pick the least qualified of the bunch each time.

Take Pete Hegseth. The idea that a perpetual drunk with crusader fantasies (and complete lack of knowledge about the crusades) who never rose all that highly in the army was the best qualified to take his post is laughable. He got the job for being a white far right freak , not because he had any qualifications for the job.
I mean, this is true. The problem with Hegseth is that he does not know how the armed forces work. He thinks that strong muscular men win wars. Farmers are beating back the Russians. They arent muscular. They are smart. They use drones. Ukraine and Russia havent really fought man to man. A strong muscular man is just an easy target

Its why Iran cant be defeat by the US. Hegesth is playing Chess and Iran is playing Risk. Hegesth cant force Iran to play Chess or accept its win conditions. So its a stalemate
 

Schadrach

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English is not as important as results. English cannot compensate for actual skills. I don't want you to do neurosurgery on me. It is not because you are an English speaker. It's because you are not a neurosurgeon. No amount of English can make you convince me that you can cut into my brain. I want a neurosurgeon. I don't care if they speak English or not
If the dominant language of the rest of my medical team is English, a neurosurgeon who speaks English has an important skill over a similarly skilled neurosurgeon who does not. Unless the non-English speaking neurosurgeon comes with an OR support staff that shares their language and a translator to explain to me and my other doctors what's going on, that is.

The value of English as a skill depends entirely on how important it is for the person to be able to quickly and accurately communicate with English speakers. For some positions it's not important - either communication doesn't need to be that quick, the person isn't public facing primarily somewhere like the US or UK, or need for communication has a small enough set of cases that the stuff that does need to be quick and is in English can essentially be memorized (for example traffic signs and lights are designed to be mostly usable by the illiterate, a handful of English words gets you 95% of the way there). For others, it can be.