US 2024 Presidential Election

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tstorm823

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"Already inevitable"? Do you say this because you actually have authoritative sources from before the US outbreak stating it would happen, or is this just a convenient retrospective assumption to exonerate the gov?
The "wall" that prevented spread northward was turned off years ago because it was already too thoroughly breached. Before DOGE was even imagined. Increased funding and staffing dedicated towards fixing the problem began before Trump took office, and has continued aggressively since. All claims of connections between DOGE and screw flies amount to "they reduced funding or staff in government organizations and grants in general, which we can pretend cut the screwworm programs, even though we have no evidence they ever cut anything specifically from the screwworm programs."

Give it up. I know you enjoy "haha, Republican's ruin everything" moments, but you're just provably wrong on this one.
 

Satinavian

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Iran "downblending" (i.e. un-enriching) its uranium stockpile is the only thing in the MOU that practically addresses Iran's nuclear programme.

Iran had already agreed to downblend its stockpile several days before America and Israel launched the war. Hmm.

I assume Republicans will be just as furious about unfreezing frozen Iranian assets now as they were when Obama unfroze that $1bn in 2018, right?
We all know that Trump lost his war and he is now in a worse situation than Obama was.

But i am happy he wants to make peace. I don't even like people mocking him for it and complaining. He is enough of a child to throw a tantrum and reverse course. And more war helps no one. Not the US, not Iran, not the rest of the world. NOt even Israel, even if Netanyahu believes otherwise.
 

Silvanus

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The "wall" that prevented spread northward was turned off years ago because it was already too thoroughly breached.
To be clear, i do not much care about you claiming the US outbreak was inevitable after the fact. I want sources from somewhere authoritative saying so before it happened.

All claims of connections between DOGE and screw flies amount to "they reduced funding or staff in government organizations and grants in general, which we can pretend cut the screwworm programs, even though we have no evidence they ever cut anything specifically from the screwworm programs."
And an anonymous internal source, quoted by an apparently-reputable outlet.

Give it up. I know you enjoy "haha, Republican's ruin everything" moments, but you're just provably wrong on this one.
Awaiting such proof, then.

Incredible coincidence in timing if so. First arrival in 50+ years, just a year after internal claims that the program was affected by cuts.
 

tstorm823

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Incredible coincidence in timing if so. First arrival in 50+ years, just a year after internal claims that the program was affected by cuts.
It's not the first in 50+ years. There was an outbreak in Florida in 2016, and one traveled on a person from Central America last year. Those weren't big news because they didn't represent wide-scale spread, they were isolated incidents.

The current event is wide scale spread, moving northward from Central America through mexico to the US. The claim the program was getting cut came when the outbreak was already halfway up Mexico. Even if there were meaningful program cuts, which we have no strong evidence of, it could not be responsible for the charge up into Mexico that had already begun, and it's questionable at best to suggest that the programs they already had if left untouched would have stopped the already aggressive spread northward.
 

Silvanus

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The current event is wide scale spread, moving northward from Central America through mexico to the US. The claim the program was getting cut came when the outbreak was already halfway up Mexico. Even if there were meaningful program cuts, which we have no strong evidence of, it could not be responsible for the charge up into Mexico that had already begun, and it's questionable at best to suggest that the programs they already had if left untouched would have stopped the already aggressive spread northward.
So to clarify: no, you don't have any source on this outcome being inevitable, regardless of cuts to FAO programs to monitor and combat it. You're speculating based on it already having returned to Mexico.

Separate question. Do you think Agripulse is fabricating its source, then? And since there was already an aggressive screwworm return in Central and South America, do you think withdrawing FAO funding was a good idea?
 

Hades

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Don't worry. If this doesn't work out, the Republicans have a plan. Blame JD Vance.

View attachment 14736
Good. If Trump drags that filth down with him then he can fall without a fanatically anti European president replacing him. Trump just casually hates us due to vibes in contrast to whatever the fuck is wrong with Vance.
 

tstorm823

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Separate question. Do you think Agripulse is fabricating its source, then? And since there was already an aggressive screwworm return in Central and South America, do you think withdrawing FAO funding was a good idea?
No, I think their source was a disgruntled bureaucrat who didn't like their staffing getting cut, and listed out a bunch of programs related to their job that they saw as critical. They picked screwworms not because it was specifically cut, but because it was already an ongoing emergency to highlight what they saw as their own importance, reasons not to downsize government.

I don't care about FAO funding. The UN doesn't fix things.

But also, it's funny you want an authoritative source to explain how time works to you. DOGE didn't time travel to cause the problem.
 

Silvanus

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No, I think their source was a disgruntled bureaucrat who didn't like their staffing getting cut, and listed out a bunch of programs related to their job that they saw as critical. They picked screwworms not because it was specifically cut, but because it was already an ongoing emergency to highlight what they saw as their own importance, reasons not to downsize government.
Ah, ok. Still sheer speculation then, which conveniently exonerates the party you support.

I don't care about FAO funding. The UN doesn't fix things.
UN programmes have been utterly vital for worldwide health initiatives. This is not disputed by anyone remotely serious.

But also, it's funny you want an authoritative source to explain how time works to you. DOGE didn't time travel to cause the problem.
No, indeed, they just potentially hobbled an effort to combat the problem, and then the problem grew and spread into the US. No time travel necessary, look at that!
 

tstorm823

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Ah, ok. Still sheer speculation then, which conveniently exonerates the party you support.
Honestly, this is impressively stubborn of you. I showed you the timeline, as supported by mainstream media, government sources, and Snopes factchecking, and you've accused me of "sheer speculation", while putting in actual zero effort to validate your own position with anything but credulity.

Fine, here you go: https://naisma.org/2024/11/26/urgent-threat-alert-new-world-screwworm-detected-in-mexico/

The North American Invasive Species Management Association, a network of non-profits dedicated to specifically things like this, issued an "Urgent Threat Alert" (along with the USDA) urging ranchers in the southern US to monitor their livestock for infection in November of 2024, 4 months before the alleged program cuts. Is that sufficiently authoritative that they saw this coming?
UN programmes have been utterly vital for worldwide health initiatives. This is not disputed by anyone remotely serious.
If a hypothetical few months of withdrawn US financial support torpedoes the entire effort irredeemably, it's not the UN being vital, it's the US being vital. I am aware that the US keeps half the world running while you sit back and complain about us. You're welcome.
 

Cicada 5

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The Injustice Department is Charging 15 People for Being a Part of Antifa During Operation Metro Surge
In commitment to its mission to get justice and liberty off the streets, the Justice Department on Tuesday charged 15 individuals in Minnesota for conspiracy and assault against ICE’s evil crusades in Operation Metro Surge, one of the administration’s varying immigration crackdowns on Democrat-led cities last year—and one that ultimately led to the deaths of Renee Nicole Good and Alex Pretti. In their 94-page indictment, federal prosecutors sought to link the 15 defendants to “antifa”—an unorganized group of single actors combating far-right extremism—and seemed, for all of it, to have little to no standing for declaring such affiliations. Great!

“What we’re seeing is this attempt, from this national security memorandum last September, is to try to break off and isolate groups of people by labeling them domestic terrorists, by labeling them antifa, and trying to allow federal government to target and repress certain groups of people based on these allegations,” Bruce Nestor, an immigration lawyer who’s also representing one of the defendants, told DemocracyNow in an interview. “Conspiracy is a prosecutor’s tool that allows them to try to hold everybody in a group accountable for what they claim a certain individual may have done.”


The charges were announced this week by the state’s top federal prosecutor, Daniel Rosen, who held an accompanying news briefing to call the charges a “broad federal effort to address organized lawless behavior.” “You watch how this case plays out, you watch how the evidence plays out.”

Watching so far, however, has not yielded much. To establish how incapable the 15 are of “nonviolent, peaceful protests,” Rosen cited during the press conference a Facebook post from one of the defendants, who reportedly wrote: “We need to become ungovernable.” As Rosen asked crowds afterwards, “What’s wrong with being ungovernable?”

Along with conspiracy and assault, the DOJ says it’s also invoking charges of interstate stalking, threats, and destruction of government property, asserting also that Direct Action Minnesota—of which the 15 are involved—“advocates, promotes, and utilizes militant tactics and violence.” Hmm.

It’s worth noting here that while 15 have been charged for links to an organization that seems to be a one-stop boogeyman for whatever MAGA deems political violence, there have been zero charges yet regarding the fatal shootings of Good or Pretti—nor any federal cooperation with state officials in investigating their deaths. But like I say… the DOJ’s working hard to get justice off the streets.
 

Silvanus

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Honestly, this is impressively stubborn of you. I showed you the timeline, as supported by mainstream media, government sources, and Snopes factchecking, and you've accused me of "sheer speculation", while putting in actual zero effort to validate your own position with anything but credulity.
Because the timeline alone is not in dispute, and doesn't validate what you're saying. That's not what I'm calling "speculation". I'm calling your statement about Agripulse's insider source speculation, because it is. You have absolutely zero reason to assume its a "disgruntled bureaucrat" giving bunk information to discredit your party.

Fine, here you go: https://naisma.org/2024/11/26/urgent-threat-alert-new-world-screwworm-detected-in-mexico/

The North American Invasive Species Management Association, a network of non-profits dedicated to specifically things like this, issued an "Urgent Threat Alert" (along with the USDA) urging ranchers in the southern US to monitor their livestock for infection in November of 2024, 4 months before the alleged program cuts. Is that sufficiently authoritative that they saw this coming?
Thank you! Only took four times asking.

Of course, doesn't really support the view that the outcome was "inevitable".

If a hypothetical few months of withdrawn US financial support torpedoes the entire effort irredeemably, it's not the UN being vital, it's the US being vital. I am aware that the US keeps half the world running while you sit back and complain about us. You're welcome.
Do you think funding is all there is to an international health initiative? Nothing important in the expertise, the international cooperation, information sharing, anything like that?
 

Agema

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Don't worry. If this doesn't work out, the Republicans have a plan. Blame JD Vance.
Why not? That charmless lump has no chance in 2028 because nobody likes him, so may as well get started throwing him under the bus now.
 

tstorm823

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Because the timeline alone is not in dispute, and doesn't validate what you're saying. That's not what I'm calling "speculation". I'm calling your statement about Agripulse's insider source speculation, because it is. You have absolutely zero reason to assume its a "disgruntled bureaucrat" giving bunk information to discredit your party.
I don't think it was political propaganda to discredit a party. I think you agree with it because it can operate that way, but I don't think that was the intention. I think government agencies were having staff cut, and this person went off on ways that cutting funds and staff could cause problems, focusing on critical, ongoing scenarios.
Thank you! Only took four times asking.
Google it next time. Actually look for information for yourself. Don't just put your faith in a random social media post and regurgitate the information here and then demand people prove you wrong.
Do you think funding is all there is to an international health initiative? Nothing important in the expertise, the international cooperation, information sharing, anything like that?
That is what you are implying. You are suggesting that a cut in funds from the US to the FAO could, in very short time scale, be singularly responsible for catastrophic continental pest issue.

Edit: I feel I should point out a bit of forum meta on this one. We know the usual pattern if I come on here and say anything even mildly in defense of Republicans, I usually get 3-5 people responding, all of whom are hitting the like button on each other's posts. You could potentially notice that isn't happening in this argument. You could interpret that a few ways, but there is on obvious explanation...
 

Silvanus

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I don't think it was political propaganda to discredit a party. I think you agree with it because it can operate that way, but I don't think that was the intention. I think government agencies were having staff cut, and this person went off on ways that cutting funds and staff could cause problems, focusing on critical, ongoing scenarios.
Regardless: the idea this person was giving bunk information, for whatever reason, is your speculation.

Google it next time. Actually look for information for yourself.
I'm not going to do your work for you. If you claim something, substantiate it.

That is what you are implying. You are suggesting that a cut in funds from the US to the FAO could, in very short time scale, be singularly responsible for catastrophic continental pest issue.
No, some very basic reasoning shows i'm not implying that at all.

International initiatives require funding. They rely on numerous commitments of said funding in order to keep doing what they do; and if a source is yanked out from under them, its not straightforward to immediately replace it. Programmes can be undermined very quickly when there isn't the funding solidly there to run it.

This does not mean funding is all there is to such initiatives, obviously.

But you argued that if withdrawn funding from the US could damage an initiative, then nothing apart from that funding was vital. Which is logically nonsense.

Edit: I feel I should point out a bit of forum meta on this one. We know the usual pattern if I come on here and say anything even mildly in defense of Republicans, I usually get 3-5 people responding, all of whom are hitting the like button on each other's posts. You could potentially notice that isn't happening in this argument. You could interpret that a few ways, but there is on obvious explanation...
The most obvious reading of this is that you read too much into 'likes', and are grasping at straws to convince yourself people secretly agree with you.
 

tstorm823

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Regardless: the idea this person was giving bunk information, for whatever reason, is your speculation.
You have no idea what the person actually said. You haven't read the Agri-pulse article you keep referencing. You gave no consideration as to what could cause this problem, you didn't look into it, you just reposted links from someone on the internet who told you what you like to hear.
 

Silvanus

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You have no idea what the person actually said. You haven't read the Agri-pulse article you keep referencing. You gave no consideration as to what could cause this problem, you didn't look into it, you just reposted links from someone on the internet who told you what you like to hear.
As usual, when you've run out of ground to argue the actual topic, you start throwing presumptuous shite about personal motive.
 

Hades

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So seems Trump ruined the DC reflecting pool after spending millions from the treasury. Seems on brand for him.

Either it’s the usual incompetence or he did it on the cheap and ran off with the money.
 

tstorm823

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As usual, when you've run out of ground to argue the actual topic, you start throwing presumptuous shite about personal motive.
You are flatly wrong in this argument, you bring nothing but ulterior motive to the table. Ignoring that would be incorrect.