A Beheading In France

[Trunkage]

It's very interesting: back when ISIS was big, the priest at my local parish offered prayers for them. Not just for their victims: for them. We prayed that they would see the errors of their ways and repent. And surrender to authorities, who we prayed would give them a fair trial.

I respect Christian who understand the concept of turn the other cheek

Not so much those who think invading countries is the solution

 

[Gergar12]

Add to that that Obama personally oversaw the drone campaign that has, in all probability, killed thousands of civilians. We don't know how many civilians because the Obama administration refused to publish details on its drone war and, when commenting on individual incidents, consistently alleged that all those killed were enemy combatants even when blowing up wedding processions.

In order to oversee the drone campaign, Obama effectively strengthened the executive power of the president over the armed forces to an unprecedented degree. He greatly strengthened the office of president, giving the president the power to personally authorize the killing of anyone regardless of nationality or country of residence, and then handed that office over to Donald Trump.

If you're worried about Trump's control over the military, or the possibility that he might not peacefully surrender power, you need to throw in a "thanks Obama". Now, I don't think that's the real threat. I think the real threat is that successive presidents have together created a situation in which an empowered presidency has become normal. Obama slid the US gradually towards authoritarianism in a way that was so subtle noone even noticed at the time because Obama was likeable and gave the image of being a competent and trustworthy politician. If noone rolls that process back, it will continue.

Not a fan of Obama drone policy in general, now droning some Hezbollah fighters, that I can get behind if they ask for it by attacking Israel.

Obama had many policies he could have pursued in the middle east like constructivist policies, and he threw them away to get hellfire missile practice.

 

[Trunkage]

Add to that that Obama personally oversaw the drone campaign that has, in all probability, killed thousands of civilians. We don't know how many civilians because the Obama administration refused to publish details on its drone war and, when commenting on individual incidents, consistently alleged that all those killed were enemy combatants even when blowing up wedding processions.

In order to oversee the drone campaign, Obama effectively strengthened the executive power of the president over the armed forces to an unprecedented degree. He greatly strengthened the office of president, giving the president the power to personally authorize the killing of anyone regardless of nationality or country of residence, and then handed that office over to Donald Trump.

If you're worried about Trump's control over the military, or the possibility that he might not peacefully surrender power, you need to throw in a "thanks Obama". Now, I don't think that's the real threat. I think the real threat is that successive presidents have together created a situation in which an empowered presidency has become normal. Obama slid the US gradually towards authoritarianism in a way that was so subtle noone even noticed at the time because Obama was likeable and gave the image of being a competent and trustworthy politician. If noone rolls that process back, it will continue.

I think some did the math and it was 1.6k kills over 8 years (dont know the actual number of civilians but estimated at over 50%)... but Trump has done over 3k in 3 years...

So war crimes all around

Edit: I'm not letting Bush off the hook either. But he just wasn't subtle and this eventually broke the average person's faith in the government and the MSM

 

[CM156]

Not so much those who think invading countries is the solution

To be fair, invading countries is sometimes the solution. Like in 1941-1945.

I would say that most of our Post-Gulf War and Post-9/11 engagements do not fall into the "sometimes"

So war crimes all around

You get a war crime, you get a war crime, everybody gets a war crime!

 

[Secondhand Revenant]

To be fair, invading countries is sometimes the solution. Like in 1941-1945.

Does that really check out with like what Jesus said

 

[CM156]

Does that really check out with like what Jesus said

There's that verse in Luke 22 where he tells people without a sword to go buy one. He could be speaking metaphorically. But if not, it's not like you use swords for decertation in the 1st century Levant.

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

Obama slid the US gradually towards authoritarianism in a way that was so subtle noone even noticed at the time because Obama was likeable and gave the image of being a competent and trustworthy politician. If noone rolls that process back, it will continue.

Tons of people noticed and called him out on it, but people didn't care because he was a democrat and got a nobel peace prize, so he can't possibly be an authoritarian.

He had the opportunity not to renew the patriot act, and he did multiple times (and expanded it). He made campaign promises to close Guantanamo Bay and then didn't. He bailed out banks instead of people during the financial crisis and then let those banks foreclose on people's houses and no one went to jail.

But sure, he allowed gay marriage to pass by doing nothing and just not interfering, so I guess that makes him a good guy according to democrats.

Obama might be one of the most cynical presidents we've ever had. For someone who campaigned on change he sure didn't change much.

 

[Kae]

One of these days I'll kill God myself since it seems to enjoy telling people to be bigots and murderers.

 

[Gergar12]

One of these days I'll kill God myself since it seems to enjoy telling people to be bigots and murderers.

How do you kill one that doesn't exist?

 

[Kae]

How do you kill one that doesn't exist?

I need to figure out a way to simultaneously cease to exist but continue existing, so I guess I need to go heavy into metaphysics to achieve this.

 

[Mister Mumbler]

Snip

Now it is such a bizarrely improbable coincidence that anything so mind-bogglingly useful could have evolved purely by chance that some thinkers have chosen to see it as a final and clinching proof of the non-existence of God.
The argument goes something like this: "I refuse to prove that I exist," says God, "for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing."
"But," says Man, "the Babel fish is a dead giveaway, isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don't. QED."
"Oh dear," says God, "I hadn't thought of that." and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic.
"Oh, that was easy," says Man, and for an encode goes on to prove that black is white and gets himself killed on the next pedestrian crossing.

 

[Iron]

I like how there's fun stuff here instead of the thread's morbid topic

 

[Neuromancer]

One of these days I'll kill God myself since it seems to enjoy telling people to be bigots and murderers.

If God existed, only in one way could he serve human liberty -- by ceasing to exist.

I need to figure out a way to simultaneously cease to exist but continue existing, so I guess I need to go heavy into metaphysics to achieve this.

It was impossible for the human mind to suspect that it was itself the sole creator of the divine world. It found the divine world before it; it found it as history, as tradition, as a sentiment, as a habit of thought; and it necessarily made it the object of its loftiest speculations. Thus was born metaphysics, and thus were developed and perfected the divine ideas, the basis of Spiritualism.

 

[Kae]

If God existed, only in one way could he serve human liberty -- by ceasing to exist.

If I had known it was possible to express that sentiment in such an eloquent manner I would have done so.

It was impossible for the human mind to suspect that it was itself the sole creator of the divine world. It found the divine world before it; it found it as history, as tradition, as a sentiment, as a habit of thought; and it necessarily made it the object of its loftiest speculations. Thus was born metaphysics, and thus were developed and perfected the divine ideas, the basis of Spiritualism.

That's a really cool way to put it, maybe I should give up talking, words are clearly not something I'm good at.

 

[Neuromancer]

If I had known it was possible to express that sentiment in such an eloquent manner I would have done so.

That's a really cool way to put it, maybe I should give up talking, words are clearly not something I'm good at.

To be fair, these are not my words. These are Bakunin quotes from God and the State.

 

[Thaluikhain]

On the other hand, Christians seem to be better at taking things on the chin, or even enduring. I've seen it theorized that a lot of this comes down to the nature of the religion - Jesus instructed people to "love thy neighbour," while Muhammad was a warlord. It's why there's far more Islamic militant groups than Christian ones. I don't know if that's true, and in the scope of history, Christianity probably has a higher bodycount, but in the here and now, which religion is acting more violently?

Very much depends on how you count it. If you're restricting it to talking about groups openly stating religion as the reason for their actions you'll get a very different result than if you include groups of one religion attacking another group their religion tends to be hostile towards.

 

[Seanchaidh]

I like how there's fun stuff here instead of the thread's morbid topic

Yeah, well

 

[CM156]

I like how there's fun stuff here instead of the thread's morbid topic

There's only so much to be said about situations like these. And it's not like anyone has shown up to argue something to the effect of "Yes beheading is bad, but..."

 

[Agema]

How do you kill one that doesn't exist?

Well, Nietzsche said god is dead, but Voltaire said if god did not exist then it would be necessary to create him, therefore god exists in a quantum state of simultaneously both being and not being.

 

[Seanchaidh]

Well, Nietzsche said god is dead, but Voltaire said if god did not exist then it would be necessary to create him, therefore god exists in a quantum state of simultaneously both being and not being.

physicists and theologians call this a divine superposition.