Probably not getting a minimum wage hike.

crimson5pheonix

It took 6 months to read my title.
Legacy
Jun 6, 2008
36,144
3,342
118
Maybe, either way those are questions that constituents will have fears about and want answers too.
You really don't want to bring constituents up because Joe Manchin's constituents make below minimum wage and have been wiped out, they really want that raise.

Hrmm, you may have a point, prices in llano which as far as I'm concerned is also bumfuck nowhere are also kinda comparable with prices around here... partially.
It's all about how fancy the place is, you can live in the heart of downtown for cheap or pay 3k+, but the exact same price range exists out in the sticks.
 

Seanchaidh

Elite Member
Legacy
Mar 21, 2009
5,282
3,105
118
Country
United States of America
When the Democrats think of most useful things they could do, it's kick all the obstructive shits out of their own party like Sen. Manchin. It's amazing how much they seem to be unable to do time after time because of about two of their own senators.
If they did that, they'd no longer have the excuse that Sen. Manchin is stopping them.
 

Worgen

Follower of the Glorious Sun Butt.
Legacy
Apr 1, 2009
14,466
3,423
118
Gender
Whatever, just wash your hands.
You really don't want to bring constituents up because Joe Manchin's constituents make below minimum wage and have been wiped out, they really want that raise.
Depends on what they want and how much of his position is based on their desires.
 

Revnak

We must imagine Sisyphus horny
Legacy
May 25, 2020
2,944
3,099
118
Country
USA
It's been well argued in many places that raising wages encourages people to shop locally more than big box stores.


Keeping wages low is how you keep Walmart in power in the middle of nowhere because I'll tell you right now, living in the middle of nowhere isn't really cheaper than living in a city. Funnily enough rent doesn't necessarily go down in smaller towns compared to larger ones, property taxes also aren't really linked with urbanization. What does influence living prices in an area is how much money is already there, which makes sense, you can't get blood from a rock. If people aren't pinching every penny, they'll be more likely to shop locally, which keeps their stores open to pay people to shop locally.
Also consider this, when the inflation adjusted minimum wage was twice as high is when bumfuck nowhere was doing best. These communities have been doing much, much, much worse in the present than they were when the minimum wage was (relative to inflation) twice as high.
 

Seanchaidh

Elite Member
Legacy
Mar 21, 2009
5,282
3,105
118
Country
United States of America
Yeah, you are correct she could overrule the parliamentarian or even just fire and replace her, but at least for firing her it sounds like they would still need the votes and Rep. Manchin (who also would prefer not to have a $15 an hour, he prefers $11) would oppose such a thing. Now overruling her is also a possibility, I have a feeling its more complicated then just saying we are ignoring you, but its kinda hard finding much info about this online.
Here is some info, then:


In a new memo circulating to lawmakers and obtained by The Daily Poster, Harris’s power as the presiding Chair of the Senate is spelled out, citing a precedent set during the Clinton administration.

“It would take 60 votes to overturn the ruling of the Chair on a Byrd Rule point of order, regardless of what the Parliamentarian advises,” states the memo. “Based on a search of the Congressional Record, it appears that only twice has the chair’s ruling on a Byrd Rule point of order been appealed. Both instances occurred on August 6, 1993, during consideration of the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1993. Neither appeal garnered the 60 affirmative votes necessary to overturn the Chair’s ruling.”

The memo spells out exactly how Democrats could use the same process now, explaining the scenario that would play out if Harris invoked her power:

“What would probably happen is a senator would appeal the ruling of the chair and then the full Senate would vote on whether to sustain the appeal,” it says. “The Chair’s ruling would be upheld as long as there are not 60 affirmative votes to sustain the appeal. So, if the majority could hold enough members together (less than 60 affirmative votes to sustain the appeal), the ruling that runs counter to the Parliamentarian’s advice would be upheld.”

The same memo also warns against Harris accepting the parliamentarian’s advice and Senate Democrats then pretending to push for the new minimum wage as part of the deliberations. In that situation, the memo suggests Democrats would be setting the minimum wage measure up for defeat.

“If in the same scenario, the chair followed the parliamentarian’s advice (and) a senator from the majority party (in favor of the provision at issue) were to appeal that ruling, then it would also take 60 affirmative votes to overturn the chair’s ruling,” says the memo. “Thus, the majority would be in a weaker position by doing it this way, because they would need to muster 60 affirmative votes to overturn the chair.”
If Vice President Harris were to ignore the advisory opinion of the parliamentarian, the Democrats wouldn't need Manchin or Sinema. They'd only need 41 no or abstain votes on the matter.
 

Worgen

Follower of the Glorious Sun Butt.
Legacy
Apr 1, 2009
14,466
3,423
118
Gender
Whatever, just wash your hands.
If Vice President Harris were to ignore the advisory opinion of the parliamentarian, the Democrats wouldn't need Manchin or Sinema. They'd only need 41 no or abstain votes on the matter.
It still sounds like its ultimately a better idea to just divorce it from the covid relief and try and get it passed afterwards. If only to get the relief for America quick since its actually pretty popular even across party lines. (I think it has like 60% support from republicans) Having to go through all these convoluted processes would just make it take more time and you still have the issue of red states suing and taking it to the supreme court. I mean I'm not sure how much the court would care about how congress gets things passed, but you can be sure red states would do it.
 

Gergar12

Elite Member
Legacy
Apr 24, 2020
3,367
809
118
Country
United States
It's all in Bernie Sander's hands now. If Bernie Sanders takes this provision out of the bill for empty promises that it will be there later. We will lose, and funny enough they will blame Bernie since he's Budget chairman and the moderate democrats are bad-faith actors, and the democrats will lose 2022, and 2024.

It's time to see if Bernie Sanders values being friends with Biden more than he values his supporters(me included).


#dontkillitbernie
 
  • Like
Reactions: tippy2k2

Trunkage

Nascent Orca
Legacy
Jun 21, 2012
8,697
2,881
118
Brisbane
Gender
Cyborg
Okay, so normally when Dems (or Rep) go against the general populace, its because their donors are asking for it. Which donors are asking the Dems to drop this?

Most big corporations are 'leading the way' in the fight for $15. How are they asking for this?
 

Gergar12

Elite Member
Legacy
Apr 24, 2020
3,367
809
118
Country
United States
Okay, so normally when Dems (or Rep) go against the general populace, its because their donors are asking for it. Which donors are asking the Dems to drop this?

Most big corporations are 'leading the way' in the fight for $15. How are they asking for this?
The Chamber of Commerce.
 

Gergar12

Elite Member
Legacy
Apr 24, 2020
3,367
809
118
Country
United States
They are number one in lobbying.

 

Seanchaidh

Elite Member
Legacy
Mar 21, 2009
5,282
3,105
118
Country
United States of America
It still sounds like its ultimately a better idea to just divorce it from the covid relief and try and get it passed afterwards. If only to get the relief for America quick since its actually pretty popular even across party lines. (I think it has like 60% support from republicans) Having to go through all these convoluted processes would just make it take more time
Why is this only ever a concern when Democrats are in office and/or the goal is to do something for the poor?
 
  • Like
Reactions: tippy2k2

Trunkage

Nascent Orca
Legacy
Jun 21, 2012
8,697
2,881
118
Brisbane
Gender
Cyborg
Why is this only ever a concern when Democrats are in office and/or the goal is to do something for the poor?
Because only about a 10% of politicians actually want to do anything about this and most are Dems. There isnt any point talking to a Republican. They're into the Charles Murray sense of society. You give money to the rich because that 'betters society faster.'
 

Worgen

Follower of the Glorious Sun Butt.
Legacy
Apr 1, 2009
14,466
3,423
118
Gender
Whatever, just wash your hands.
Why is this only ever a concern when Democrats are in office and/or the goal is to do something for the poor?
Because this is a rather conservative country and conservatives kinda don't want to do much. For democrats to actually win and have the power to do anything they need a coalition of both progressives and moderates. Plus, democrats tend to be less willing to just march in lock step like republicans are expected too. But even republicans have to deal with their own party elements, like that trump tax plan actually took them a lot of time and effort to pass even ignoring democrats.
 

tippy2k2

Beloved Tyrant
Legacy
Mar 15, 2008
14,328
1,512
118
Fucking overrule her. There's no reason not to do so.
There's plenty of good reason! Democrats don't want to do anything that might make rich people slightly less rich just like Republicans so they're going to do what they always do; just enough to make it look like they put up a fight but not actually put up a fight.

Or are we still pretending that the "Democrats are the Party of The People"?
 

09philj

Elite Member
Legacy
Mar 31, 2015
2,154
947
118
There's plenty of good reason! Democrats don't want to do anything that might make rich people slightly less rich just like Republicans so they're going to do what they always do; just enough to make it look like they put up a fight but not actually put up a fight.

Or are we still pretending that the "Democrats are the Party of The People"?
Democrats: The Party of Slightly More People than the Republicans
 

tippy2k2

Beloved Tyrant
Legacy
Mar 15, 2008
14,328
1,512
118
Democrats: The Party of Slightly More People than the Republicans
I'm not even sure that's true anymore.

Sure, they might kick people a crumb or two so they can keep pretending like they're for "the little guy" but Republicans will gut you like a fish while Democrats will tell you they're your friend before pulling out their backstabbing knife.

Then when "nothing fundamentally changes" and all of the promises Democrats gave that were either flat out lies (You all enjoying your $2,000 checks you got immediately when Georgia flipped blue for the first time in like fifty fucking years?) or they pretend to fight for it and let it go the second they can, some weird orange creepy ************ wanders in from outside and goes" See? They're all crooks! What do you have to lose? Vote for me!!!!". All the people with a Democrat Knife in their back goes "Fuck it, nothing is fundamentally changing anyway, might as well vote in the weird Maverick who is probably lying but we KNOW the Democrats are lying and it can't get much worse...".
 

Worgen

Follower of the Glorious Sun Butt.
Legacy
Apr 1, 2009
14,466
3,423
118
Gender
Whatever, just wash your hands.
Then when "nothing fundamentally changes"
If you want fundamental change then pay more attention to local elections since those are much more likely to have an effect that you can directly see.
 

crimson5pheonix

It took 6 months to read my title.
Legacy
Jun 6, 2008
36,144
3,342
118

A nice comparison between what Biden could be doing about the minimum wage and what he's actually doing about it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dirty Hipsters