Environmental woes.

Agema

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Work at Google, get Parkinson's Disease!

Men to become sterile by 2045! (Okay, almost certainly won't actually happen, but...)

I though particularly in the case of the latter, perhaps the prospect of almost every man on the planet shooting blanks might motivate some sort of response. No so much because of the collapse of the human race. I mean, that would be bad bad, but it would be the insult to male ego that would be really intolerable.
 

SilentPony

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Damn Salarians and their genophage! I thought using human test subjects unethical and sloppy, used by brute-force researchers not proper scientists.
 

Samtemdo8

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Part of me wonders if there is actual validity and that governments should take action, or its just clickbait doomsday fodder.
 

Gergar12

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Thank you plastics, mountains of plastics.
 

dreng3

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I though particularly in the case of the latter, perhaps the prospect of almost every man on the planet shooting blanks might motivate some sort of response. No so much because of the collapse of the human race. I mean, that would be bad bad, but it would be the insult to male ego that would be really intolerable.
As if that wasn't enough the same scientist also notes that pollution is resulting in future generations having smaller penises.

Study

Somehow brings this to my mind

fuel efficiency.gif
 

Agema

You have no authority here, Jackie Weaver
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Part of me wonders if there is actual validity and that governments should take action, or its just clickbait doomsday fodder.
I was chatting to a professor of toxicology once who warned me not to wrap cheese in clingfilm, because the cheese will leech out chemicals from the plastic which have an effect similar to female sex hormones. That was back in 2005: so this is not exactly brand new. Similarly, numerous studies over the last two decades have found a dramatic decrease in sperm counts compared to a few decades previously.

The key assumption in terms of male sterility is "if present trends continue": they almost certainly won't. However, chances are the existing decline has already pushed some low fertility men over the boundary into infertility, and more decline will result in even more infertility.
 

Thaluikhain

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Given the ongoing and serious concerns about over-population, not sure if I sure be worried.
 

Agema

You have no authority here, Jackie Weaver
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Given the ongoing and serious concerns about over-population, not sure if I sure be worried.
Depends. A large decline in population in a short period would be societally catastrophic. You could think of it in terms of carers to support an ageing population. But much is economic: population decline means economic decline. All these oldsters have money in pensions and the stock market, so a decline in the economy degrades their pensions; who's paying for them, then, given a shrunken tax base and national debt up the wazoo? Work them until they drop - 82-year-olds in McDs serving fries?

I think we'd probably need to completely redesign the economy. I don't necessarily have any complaints with that in a sense, but it would be extremely chaotic and difficult, nor has a guarantee of a happy ending.
 

Hawki

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Depends. A large decline in population in a short period would be societally catastrophic. You could think of it in terms of carers to support an ageing population. But much is economic: population decline means economic decline. All these oldsters have money in pensions and the stock market, so a decline in the economy degrades their pensions; who's paying for them, then, given a shrunken tax base and national debt up the wazoo? Work them until they drop - 82-year-olds in McDs serving fries?

I think we'd probably need to completely redesign the economy. I don't necessarily have any complaints with that in a sense, but it would be extremely chaotic and difficult, nor has a guarantee of a happy ending.
We're not going to have a sudden decline in population, at least not globally. There's many predictions as to what number the human population will peak at, and when. Whenever it occurs, however, it's not a sudden drop that follows.

And yes, concerns about an inverted age pyramid, the welfare state, and all that are valid, but a smaller population is good for the planet. It's not that population is the only factor (see overconsumption as well), but I'd rather have both reduced (in a humane manner, lest anyone start getting ideas).
 

Agema

You have no authority here, Jackie Weaver
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We're not going to have a sudden decline in population, at least not globally.
Probably not. But we're taking an assumption of a theoretical model based on a large drop in fertility.

It's partly unlikely because reduced male fertility won't necessarily have that much effect on birth rates: it just means couples have to screw for three years before a sperm gets lucky instead of three months. If they want kids, however, they'll still have them. In a very bad situation, of course, where a lot of men are rendered all but infertile, developing world populations will crumble far more than developed, because they won't be able to afford artificial treatments like IVF.
 

Specter Von Baren

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Isn't it entirely possible that this has more to do with natural selection in that our species currently doesn't need it's male population to be so virile as in the past due to less deaths and overpopulation? It could also be because men have greater access to porn and so they have a lower sperm count due to jacking off more often.
 

Agema

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Isn't it entirely possible that this has more to do with natural selection in that our species currently doesn't need it's male population to be so virile as in the past due to less deaths and overpopulation?
Somewhere between "incredibly unlikely" and "no".
 

dreng3

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Isn't it entirely possible that this has more to do with natural selection in that our species currently doesn't need it's male population to be so virile as in the past due to less deaths and overpopulation? It could also be because men have greater access to porn and so they have a lower sperm count due to jacking off more often.
Ultimately stuff like this will select for men less affected by pollution and outside factors that will reduce sperm count, at least if we're considering evolution in the simplest terms. Remember, it is survival of the fittest, not survival of the best.
 

happyninja42

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Depends. A large decline in population in a short period would be societally catastrophic. You could think of it in terms of carers to support an ageing population. But much is economic: population decline means economic decline. All these oldsters have money in pensions and the stock market, so a decline in the economy degrades their pensions; who's paying for them, then, given a shrunken tax base and national debt up the wazoo? Work them until they drop - 82-year-olds in McDs serving fries?

I think we'd probably need to completely redesign the economy. I don't necessarily have any complaints with that in a sense, but it would be extremely chaotic and difficult, nor has a guarantee of a happy ending.
Yeah I've always had an issue with the idea that most economic models, are built on the design of needing constant expansion to be ok. That any significant dip and catastrophe happens. It's always seemed reasonable to me, to try and build the system in a way that it can easily handle significant impacts, with minimal detrimental effect. Of course, that will probably mean building an economic system that isn't designed to maximize profit at the expense of all other factors. So...good luck having that happen in the US at least.
 

Agema

You have no authority here, Jackie Weaver
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Yeah I've always had an issue with the idea that most economic models, are built on the design of needing constant
expansion to be ok.
Systems are usually based on trends - naturally the trend for a long time has been stable to increasing population. Changes can (and should) be arranged in good time to correct as necessary. A shrinkage can thus also be safely managed - but within limits. Japan's population has been shrinking for over a decade and will almost certainly continue to, but no-one thinks Japan will fall over. China's population will probably go negative within about 10 years; India's birth rate has declined to the point that in a few decades that will probably see population decrease in 20-30 years. Across most of the world outside Africa, in fact, most countries across the world are projected to stagnate or go into decline over the coming decades. None of this should be a particular problem. The problem would be a sharp and heavy drop in population.

That any significant dip and catastrophe happens. It's always seemed reasonable to me, to try and build the system in a way that it can easily handle significant impacts, with minimal detrimental effect. Of course, that will probably mean building an economic system that isn't designed to maximize profit at the expense of all other factors. So...good luck having that happen in the US at least.
I agree however that resilience in systems is a good idea. I think if Covid taught us anything, it's that perhaps we have less than we thought - although perhaps it could also be viewed that many of our countries were able to adapt quickly and effectively. Actually, I wonder whether Covid-19 hasn't cracked some of the economic assumptions anyway. The US national debt has sailed well over 100% GDP, and Biden's talking about a $2 trillion infrastructure plan. Seems to me that someone's worked out that massive national debt is much more manageable than previously assumed, or there's a plan in the works to deal with it such that spending can be supported - like, they're going to tax someone.
 

happyninja42

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Systems are usually based on trends - naturally the trend for a long time has been stable to increasing population. Changes can (and should) be arranged in good time to correct as necessary. A shrinkage can thus also be safely managed - but within limits. Japan's population has been shrinking for over a decade and will almost certainly continue to, but no-one thinks Japan will fall over. China's population will probably go negative within about 10 years; India's birth rate has declined to the point that in a few decades that will probably see population decrease in 20-30 years. Across most of the world outside Africa, in fact, most countries across the world are projected to stagnate or go into decline over the coming decades. None of this should be a particular problem. The problem would be a sharp and heavy drop in population.
I agree, any catastrophe on that scale would have an impact on so many levels of society that of course upheaval and discord would result. I'm mostly referring to various talking points I've heard over the years, from people against the idea of population reduction, and other factors that would result in a reduction, or end in our constant expansion. Very often I've heard them say "We can't have that happen, it would ruin the economy. The economy is dependent on the growth of a society, if it declines, we will have problems." And my thoughts have always been "Ok but, you can't predict constant, uninterrupted expansion. Everything has limits. So that isn't really a defense, it's more pointing out a flaw in your model. Because bad things happen, that's just a fact. We wake up one day, and an oceanic earthquake happens, displacing a massive plate, and we get 250k dead, and billions/trillions in infrastructure damage in a matter of hours. A volcano decides to go boom and fuck some stuff up. The list goes on. So it would be more prudent, I think, to actually try and say "ok so, let's maybe structure this system, to account for declines as best we can. Whether it be a slow decline due to various factors, or short term events that shake it up." I personally would prefer an emphasis on the former, than the latter, as I find that the more likely scenario.

I agree however that resilience in systems is a good idea. I think if Covid taught us anything, it's that perhaps we have less than we thought - although perhaps it could also be viewed that many of our countries were able to adapt quickly and effectively. Actually, I wonder whether Covid-19 hasn't cracked some of the economic assumptions anyway. The US national debt has sailed well over 100% GDP, and Biden's talking about a $2 trillion infrastructure plan. Seems to me that someone's worked out that massive national debt is much more manageable than previously assumed, or there's a plan in the works to deal with it such that spending can be supported - like, they're going to tax someone.
Yes, I would say the Covid event has shone a light on how well some models are at adapting with minimal upheaval. Nobody came through squeaky clean, but it's pretty obvious that some of them faired much better than others. And yeah, spending itself isn't the problem, it's what you are spending the money ON, that is important. I still think that our overall system is really borked, as it's all some kind of financial dick measuring system, to see who is "winning." And that entire mindset is a problem in my opinion.
 
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McElroy

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The big ones, phthalates and BPA are mostly under control now that their effects have been discovered. It could take some time before the average person catches up. Or the average production line... Anyways: more bad diets, big bellies, sitting, and less exercise. I'd expect these to be the main causes.
 

Gergar12

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I swear if plastic microparticles and consumers chemicals are why we can't pass the great filter to become a space faring civilization, I am going to be livid.