The Father of Computer Science is Still a Criminal

The Wooster

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Jul 15, 2008
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The Father of Computer Science is Still a Criminal



The British House of Lords has refused to grant a posthumous pardon to legendary cryptanalyst and mathematician, Alan Turing.

You might have heard of Alan Turing. He formalised the concepts of algorithm and computation. His Turing Machine, designed in 1936, was an early blueprint for the electronic digital computer. The device you're using to read this article is, in part, based on Turing's work. During WWII he worked for the Government Code and Cypher School where he devised several techniques for breaking German ciphers.

Turing's reward for helping defeat one of the 20th century's greatest threats, and ushering in its most far-reaching technological revolution, was chemical castration.
An active homosexual, Turing was arrested in 1952 after a spat with a former lover. As homosexuality was considered illegal at the time, Turing faced a charge of gross indecency and chose to be chemically castrated via female hormone treatments rather than face prison. Two years later he committed suicide.

In 2009, Prime Minister Gordon Brown apologised on behalf of the British Government, admitting that Turing "deserved much better." This lead to a petition to have Turing posthumously pardoned for the offense. The petition, which was started by computer scientist John Graham-Cumming and backed by big names including Ian McEwan and Richard Dawkins, was rejected last week.

"A posthumous pardon was not considered appropriate as Alan Turing was properly convicted of what at the time was a criminal offense. He would have known that his offense was against the law and that he would be prosecuted."

"It is tragic that Alan Turing was convicted of an offense which now seems both cruel and absurd-particularly poignant given his outstanding contribution to the war effort. However, the law at the time required a prosecution and, as such, long-standing policy has been to accept that such convictions took place and, rather than trying to alter the historical context and to put right what cannot be put right, ensure instead that we never again return to those times."

On the bright side, Turing is going to get his own stamp! [http://www.guardian.co.uk/artanddesign/2012/jan/02/codebreaker-alan-turing-stamp-approval ] I'm sure that's some consolation.


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Jadak

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Nov 4, 2008
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Fortunately, I don't think he particularly cares either way, being dead and all. And being an eventually castrated homosexual who killed himself, I doubt he had many descendants who are overly concerned about the family legacy either.
 

josh4president

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Mar 24, 2010
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Understandable

Posthumous pardons are always a tricky business; it is difficult to discern a proper course of action unless one is able to directly address the accused

But then again if we could do that he would be a zombie, and video games have taught me that the living dead care little for court rulings

-Joshua Oswald
 

Poisoned Al

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While sucky, it's not surprising. While the law was bullshit, it WAS the law at the time and he broke it. Pardoning someone for a "crime" he DID commit is a massive can of worms you don't want to open. It sucks, but you don't go making exceptions in law or the whole bloody thing falls to bits.
 

Therumancer

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Nov 28, 2007
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Sober Thal said:
Again, people gloss over how he was allegedly a child molester, only given till his work was done, before being given the choice of imprisonment, or chemical castration.

He decided on the chems. He then committed suicide.

If people think that The British House of Lords is some sort of evil homophobic group, so be it... but perhaps what was possibly 'swept under the rug' is why they refuse to pardon the man.

(The Prime Minister who eventually 'apologized' to him was a baby when Alan Turing was convicted. Just sayin.)
Yep, and one of the reasons why left wing politics drive me crazy. The guy pretty much got what he deserved.

It's sort of like saying that because Hitler made many great contributions, especially before World War II (the guy was an international "man of the year") that we should pardon him for all of his crimes, like that little holocaust thing, so he can be remembered as a humanitarian and economic reformist....

To put this into perspective, despite his sexual orientation being a crime he managed to rise to a position of great prominance. What he was doing would doubtlessly have been overlooked it it wasn't for associated crimes. Fair or not, social status has always had it's privleges, and keeping certain things "in the closet" at the time was one of them. If he had not been a child molester, this would have fallen under the catagory of "vile rumor" which right now given how the political conditions changing would perhaps be validated as true.

While Turing was a few steps less, perhaps we should re-consider the case of Gilles De Rais... as well. I mean while we're on the subject. He had his great battlefield victories and even fought alongside Joan Of Arc... should he not be remembered for that as opposed to his personal habits...
 

The Wooster

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Therumancer said:
Sober Thal said:
Again, people gloss over how he was allegedly a child molester, only given till his work was done, before being given the choice of imprisonment, or chemical castration.

He decided on the chems. He then committed suicide.

If people think that The British House of Lords is some sort of evil homophobic group, so be it... but perhaps what was possibly 'swept under the rug' is why they refuse to pardon the man.

(The Prime Minister who eventually 'apologized' to him was a baby when Alan Turing was convicted. Just sayin.)
Yep, and one of the reasons why left wing politics drive me crazy. The guy pretty much got what he deserved.
Would either of you care to provide a credible source?
 

FalloutJack

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Nov 20, 2008
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With respect, denying a dead man a little dignity for posterity's sake is something of a 'beating the dead horse' moment. People convicted of crimes and then proven innocent by the DNA testing that came years later are released. We can't go "Sorry, Turing, old chap. It was all hot-blooded intolerance and foolishness in the end.", now that being gay isn't a crime? I find that pathetic, especially since he certainly can't harm anyone NOW. I suppose he'll announce candidacy and win an election against a living man, since it's happened before in the U.S., right?
 

Worgen

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Whatever, just wash your hands.
Sober Thal said:
Again, people gloss over how he was allegedly a child molester, only given till his work was done, before being given the choice of imprisonment, or chemical castration.

He decided on the chems. He then committed suicide.

If people think that The British House of Lords is some sort of evil homophobic group, so be it... but perhaps what was possibly 'swept under the rug' is why they refuse to pardon the man.

(The Prime Minister who eventually 'apologized' to him was a baby when Alan Turing was convicted. Just sayin.)
Call my crazy but I think your lying since you don't have any sort of citations and I didn't find anything about that from an admittedly simple search.
 

the clockmaker

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For god's sake!

-A pardon states that you were innocent of the crime that you were convicted of.
-It was illegal at the time to be homosexual
-Turing was homosexual
-Turing was in breach of that law.

He was given an appology, but a pardon is not possible under the law. It would be meaningless under the law. And since it is a legal action, it would be pointless to do it. People think that because they ask someone to 'pardon them' when they bump into them in the corridor that it is synonomous with forgiveness, but under the law it is a very specific thing.

They are not saying that the law was right, they are not saying that being gay is wrong, they are simply stating what the law was and what the facts are.
 

Belated

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That's just stupid. "Pardons" are called "pardons" for a reason. It's the government forgiving you for committing a crime that you did commit, not one that you didn't. It's a way of saying "We know you did something illegal but we're going to let you get away with it." Pardons aren't appeals on sentences. Pardons are forgiveness for sentences. They weren't asking for them to undo the court's decision. They were asking the British Government to forgive the crimes, not find that no crimes were committed. Seriously, do these people even know what a "pardon" is?
 

The Wooster

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Sober Thal said:
Wikipedia is a simple search.... perhaps you didn't see that part?

A nonfiction historian (Anthony Cave Brown) wrote about it. I would dare to say he was almost an expert (more than you or I) on the goings on of the WWII era behind the scenes...

But I just think it's a more valid reason for the House of Lords to not pardon him as opposed to they just being evil homophobes.

Savvy?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Turing

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Cave_Brown

Emphasis is my own.

Early in 1944 a suspicion arose that he might have been the man responsible for molesting schoolboys at the main public library in Luton, a large industrial town not far from Bletchley. While no proceedings arose, it was decided that the need for good order and discipline required his removal - but not before he had done his finest work.
 

remnant_phoenix

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Grey Carter said:
"...rather than trying to alter the historical context and to put right what cannot be put right, ensure instead that we never again return to those times."
I agree with this.

As a history teacher, I believe that history should be presented in all of it's holy and unholy glory. Don't gear it toward an agenda. Even if that agenda is considered good, it doesn't matter. History should be laid bare in its facts. Let the individual, not society or the government, place value judgements on history, whatever they may be.

When an individual pushes to have society or the government recognize/accept those value judgements, even if those views are more enlightened that the ones in the past, it's just another step away from presenting history unbiased.

Better to, as this man said, accept that the past happened the way that it did and learn from it. Allow people to make up their own minds about history, rather than trying to establish social view of history based on an multicultural/tolerance agenda.

To be clear, I am NOT AGAINST a multicultural/tolerance agenda, I am simply against co-opting history into ANY agenda. Present history unfettered and raw, then let individual people make of it what they will.
 

cobra_ky

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Sober Thal said:
Worgen said:
Sober Thal said:
Again, people gloss over how he was allegedly a child molester, only given till his work was done, before being given the choice of imprisonment, or chemical castration.

He decided on the chems. He then committed suicide.

If people think that The British House of Lords is some sort of evil homophobic group, so be it... but perhaps what was possibly 'swept under the rug' is why they refuse to pardon the man.

(The Prime Minister who eventually 'apologized' to him was a baby when Alan Turing was convicted. Just sayin.)
Call my crazy but I think your lying since you don't have any sort of citations and I didn't find anything about that from an admittedly simple search.
Wikipedia is a simple search.... perhaps you didn't see that part?

A nonfiction historian (Anthony Cave Brown) wrote about it. I would dare to say he was almost an expert (more than you or I) on the goings on of the WWII era behind the scenes...

But I just think it's a more valid reason for the House of Lords to not pardon him as opposed to they just being evil homophobes.

Savvy?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Turing

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Cave_Brown
Brown's page makes no mention of Turing. Turing's article contains the following excerpt:

Menzies had known that Turing was a practicing and aggressive homosexual; this had emerged soon after his employment at Bletchley. But since he caused no offence to his colleagues at Bletchley, and since he was perhaps the only man in Menzies's service who might have been called ?indispensable,? his services were retained... Early in 1944 a suspicion arose that he might have been the man responsible for molesting schoolboys at the main public library in Luton, a large industrial town not far from Bletchley. While no proceedings arose, it was decided that the need for good order and discipline required his removal - but not before he had done his finest work.
So we have a historian noting that someone suspected Turing of molesting children in 1944, in what was still an incredibly toxic homophobic environment.

That's a pretty piss-poor argument to base your accusations on.