Halo 3 On HDD With NXE Leaves Gamers SOL

Andy Chalk

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Nov 12, 2002
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Halo 3 On HDD With NXE Leaves Gamers SOL


One of the features offered by Microsoft's Halo 3 [http://www.xbox.com/en-US/live/nxe/].

That's because installing the game to the console hard drive actually increases loading time, according to an Inside Bungie [http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=news&cid=16252] news post. While some games experience a performance boost by being read from the drive, several websites reported that Halo 3 load times could be "significantly longer" when coming off the HDD, a phenomenon confirmed by Bungie's own internal testing.

Bungie engineer Mat Noguchi said the problem occurs because Halo 3 cannot tell whether it's running from the DVD or the hard drive. The game is designed to automatically copy map data to the hard drive on Xbox 360 [http://www.xbox.com] systems equipped with the device, a process it goes through even when the full game has been installed to the drive; the performance difference comes from the fact that while the console can read from the DVD drive while simultaneously writing to the HDD, reading and writing on the same device - in this case, the hard drive - must occur sequentially, and thus takes more time.

Even though Halo 3 is barely more than a year old, the roots of the glitch can be traced back to its age. "We shipped Halo 3 before Microsoft [http://www.microsoft.com] finalized this particular [NXE] feature," Noguchi added. "As a result, we were not able to take advantage of it (or any other potential optimizations we discovered after shipping Halo 3). Perhaps we also coded too close to the metal."

He also implied that Bungie was unlikely to attempt to patch the game in order to gain a performance boost through the NXE enhancements. "While anything is possible, it would be a significant undertaking to try and retroactively patch/update Halo 3 to be optimized to take advantage of the HDD install features of NXE," he said. "The risks of doing that and the resources required has to be carefully considered against what could really be a rather insignificant change to the player experience."


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Gahars

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Codgo said:
Can't they just release a patch to update it.. oh wait.
This is Microsoft

We will have long evolved beyond the need for Halo by the time the patch comes out.
 

Unholykrumpet

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...I don't get the idea behind the NXE doing the copy to hard drive deal. Especially for a game like Halo. The loading times aren't terrible, I don't mind them anyway. And I wonder who were the people that was like "Zomg, NXE is up. First thing I'm going to do is copy Halo 3 to my hard drive". I play Halo nearly every day, and I would never have thought about doing this until like...three weeks later. And I probably wouldn't have done it even then.
 

GloatingSwine

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Unholykrumpet said:
...I don't get the idea behind the NXE doing the copy to hard drive deal. Especially for a game like Halo. The loading times aren't terrible, I don't mind them anyway. And I wonder who were the people that was like "Zomg, NXE is up. First thing I'm going to do is copy Halo 3 to my hard drive". I play Halo nearly every day, and I would never have thought about doing this until like...three weeks later. And I probably wouldn't have done it even then.
Depends on the game. Some games you can barely tell the difference, some, like Forza 2, it's night and day.

Also, if you're like me and have a cranky old Xbox with a really loud and half dead DVD drive, having it not make noises during play is a handy bonus.
 

Eldritch Warlord

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Codgo said:
Can't they just release a patch to update it.. oh wait.
Hmm, I would explain it to you but . . .

Malygris said:
He also implied that Bungie was unlikely to attempt to patch the game in order to gain a performance boost through the NXE enhancements.
. . . the article already did.
 

Unholykrumpet

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cleverlymadeup said:
Unholykrumpet said:
...I don't get the idea behind the NXE doing the copy to hard drive deal.
it's copying sony cause sony had a great idea and m$ wanted to copy it
I thought that the PS3 did it because of the formatting of the disk? I know most games I've played on my friends PS3 have long load times even with the download. I'm slightly confused as to why the 360 felt the need to do the same, seeing as I've never played a game with crazy long load times. Can't people wait five-ten seconds for their bloody games anymore?
 

shatnershaman

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Unholykrumpet said:
cleverlymadeup said:
Unholykrumpet said:
...I don't get the idea behind the NXE doing the copy to hard drive deal.
it's copying sony cause sony had a great idea and m$ wanted to copy it
I thought that the PS3 did it because of the formatting of the disk? I know most games I've played on my friends PS3 have long load times even with the download. I'm slightly confused as to why the 360 felt the need to do the same, seeing as I've never played a game with crazy long load times. Can't people wait five-ten seconds for their bloody games anymore?
It isn't the same kind of download. The PS3 way is putting some of the infomation (3-5GB) and still have the disk spin (If they put it all on then all the 20 and 40GBs ones would not be able to play Metal Gear Solid). The Xbox way is to put the whole game (minus the DRM) on the hard drive and only have the disc spin at start up to verify you own it. The only take up 4-6GB so to 60GB and 120GB owner's the less noise is an easy price to pay and it really makes a difference for older (05/06) games.

Halo 3 has "optimized for hard drive" on the back so this shouldn't be a surprise.
 

cleverlymadeup

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Unholykrumpet said:
cleverlymadeup said:
Unholykrumpet said:
...I don't get the idea behind the NXE doing the copy to hard drive deal.
it's copying sony cause sony had a great idea and m$ wanted to copy it
I thought that the PS3 did it because of the formatting of the disk? I know most games I've played on my friends PS3 have long load times even with the download. I'm slightly confused as to why the 360 felt the need to do the same, seeing as I've never played a game with crazy long load times. Can't people wait five-ten seconds for their bloody games anymore?
i've tried games on both my ps3 and my friend's 360 and the ps3 has faster load times, ps3 for dmc4 is maybe 10 seconds

it has a bit to do with how big the disc is, it's more seek time rather than formatting and it's a quicker load and read time to get it from the hard drive
 

BoredKellon

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Oh the irony, they attempt to reduce load times themselves and end up causing performance loss to those who try to increase it using other methods.
 

ccesarano

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Unholykrumpet said:
cleverlymadeup said:
Unholykrumpet said:
...I don't get the idea behind the NXE doing the copy to hard drive deal.
it's copying sony cause sony had a great idea and m$ wanted to copy it
I thought that the PS3 did it because of the formatting of the disk? I know most games I've played on my friends PS3 have long load times even with the download. I'm slightly confused as to why the 360 felt the need to do the same, seeing as I've never played a game with crazy long load times. Can't people wait five-ten seconds for their bloody games anymore?
There are a few reasons to do the hard drive deal. One of them is shorter load times, and in some cases a bit of a performance boost. Another is, with a 360 as old as mine, there are some games (and some occasions) where you get "Disc Unreadable" errors that ruin your entire day. That's another avoidable issue. There is also the noise issue, as some people are bothered by it while others are not.

As for "copying the PS3", this at least is a feature worth copying (and let's face it, if there's an idea worth copying, why not?). Though I'm not sure if I heard a hint of "This is why Sony is better" in there. To knock that idea off of its high horse, some games require that installation so they don't have horrendous load times, all because of the slow speed of the Blu-Ray laser. Same goes with most PS3 games having duplicate data across the disc, keeping load times to a minimum. Microsoft did not NEED this functionality, simply added it in because a bunch of people liked it (and no, I'm not implying Microsoft is better, either. While I prefer their system, there's a lot of things they did poorly, and I especially wished they didn't try ripping off Mii's).
 

cleverlymadeup

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ccesarano said:
As for "copying the PS3", this at least is a feature worth copying (and let's face it, if there's an idea worth copying, why not?). Though I'm not sure if I heard a hint of "This is why Sony is better" in there. To knock that idea off of its high horse, some games require that installation so they don't have horrendous load times, all because of the slow speed of the Blu-Ray laser. Same goes with most PS3 games having duplicate data across the disc, keeping load times to a minimum. Microsoft did not NEED this functionality, simply added it in because a bunch of people liked it (and no, I'm not implying Microsoft is better, either. While I prefer their system, there's a lot of things they did poorly, and I especially wished they didn't try ripping off Mii's).
actually blu-ray has a faster data transfer rate than a dvd but when you have a disc that's up to 50gigs compared to 9 gigs on a dvd, your seek time will be a bit longer. the preloading of games on the hard drive just reduces the need for longer seek times due to the size of the disc. generally speaking hard drives have faster seek times than discs do
 

Singing Gremlin

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Guys! Guys! Did you not watch De-Rez?

It. Doesn't. Matter.

The question is though, will developers start making use of that to the point playing from the disk is unbearable?
 

akmarksman

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Unholykrumpet said:
...I don't get the idea behind the NXE doing the copy to hard drive deal. Especially for a game like Halo. The loading times aren't terrible, I don't mind them anyway. And I wonder who were the people that was like "Zomg, NXE is up. First thing I'm going to do is copy Halo 3 to my hard drive". I play Halo nearly every day, and I would never have thought about doing this until like...three weeks later. And I probably wouldn't have done it even then.
when your DVD drive fails..I'll just quietly smile.

I installed the game and Im going to leave it installed..I also installed ODST and the other disc..multiplayer only of Halo 3.
I do have the 120GB HD and Im down to about 19GB left..
 

Anton P. Nym

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akmarksman said:
Unholykrumpet said:
...I don't get the idea behind the NXE doing the copy to hard drive deal. Especially for a game like Halo. The loading times aren't terrible, I don't mind them anyway. And I wonder who were the people that was like "Zomg, NXE is up. First thing I'm going to do is copy Halo 3 to my hard drive". I play Halo nearly every day, and I would never have thought about doing this until like...three weeks later. And I probably wouldn't have done it even then.
when your DVD drive fails..I'll just quietly smile.

I installed the game and Im going to leave it installed..I also installed ODST and the other disc..multiplayer only of Halo 3.
I do have the 120GB HD and Im down to about 19GB left..
The wit and wisdom of said response, of course, justifies the 11.5-month necro-bump.

As the original article said, loading times for Halo 3 are increased when the game is installed to the HDD. So long as you're alright with that (and don't mind the occasional time that you get dumped from the multiplayer lobby for taking too long to load the map) that's fine.

You're in better shape with ODST which apparently had the engine revised to accomodate running from the drive... but the load speed is so fast already I haven't bothered. (Then again, I have a newer DVD drive which is much quieter than the cooling fans... this is definitely a your-milage-may-vary situation.)

-- Steve