How D&D Next Is Shaping Up
- Thread starter Greg Tito
- Start date
I got scared off D&D by all the stuff you have to do just to get anything done but I have to admit this sounds a lot more like how I always thought D&D should be. When it comes out I might try to get some friends together 
Not quite sure what I think about this. As a new guy to DND, I was actually comforted by 4E's specific rules, and if I didn't like them, I could just chuck them out the window (like I did for certain Ritual times). It sounds like they're trying to encourage winging it, which is good for experienced DMs but for new people will be overwhelming.
I don't see the winging part as much. Yes, they are relaxing the rigidity a bit, but theysaid that there will still be guidelines on DCs for checks. One problem I had with 4e (which I played and DM'd from release to last year) was that while skills (and just about every other d20 roll) increased every level, but so did the DC.scotth266 said:
As for the specifics vs homebrew, look at the DnDNext page. The looks of it is that there will be a set of rules with a large amount of customization to the rules available.
Also, playtest May 24th.
Huh. 5th Ed sounds... interesting.
Well, I'll give it a looksie when it comes out. See how it stands up to Pathfinder.
Although, I was confused by one thing. When I (as a DM) charm a PC, I say "make a Will save". If that PC has specific bonuses (like the +2 to Ench mentioned in the article) they usually say "against what school?" And I say "Enchantment" - to which they say "fuck" and also "I have a +2 bonus to that, so..." and then they add up whatever they rolled.
How would a PC not KNOW they are Charmed? They have to roll a Will save (or in 4th Ed, the GM would roll the charm attack, but would still need to know their Will Defense).
Or, if the DM was doing secret rolls for certain effects (to create more mystery) against a chart of all the PC's Defense numbers, then wouldn't it be the DM's job to have that +2 vs Ench written down?
Anyway, I just thought that was a very strange example. I have never had that be a problem in games.
When they were talking about "feel-bad abilities" I assumed they were talking about abilities that removed a player from combat (like Hold person) effectively making them sit quietly for 30 minutes while everyone else has fun without them. THOSE are abilities I'd like to see looked at - sending someone below 0 HP is one thing, or even making them attack the nearest target or themselves while confused still has them participating, but things that entirely prevent a player from playing for an extended period of time just seem to detract from the game.
Well, I'll give it a looksie when it comes out. See how it stands up to Pathfinder.
Although, I was confused by one thing. When I (as a DM) charm a PC, I say "make a Will save". If that PC has specific bonuses (like the +2 to Ench mentioned in the article) they usually say "against what school?" And I say "Enchantment" - to which they say "fuck" and also "I have a +2 bonus to that, so..." and then they add up whatever they rolled.
How would a PC not KNOW they are Charmed? They have to roll a Will save (or in 4th Ed, the GM would roll the charm attack, but would still need to know their Will Defense).
Or, if the DM was doing secret rolls for certain effects (to create more mystery) against a chart of all the PC's Defense numbers, then wouldn't it be the DM's job to have that +2 vs Ench written down?
Anyway, I just thought that was a very strange example. I have never had that be a problem in games.
When they were talking about "feel-bad abilities" I assumed they were talking about abilities that removed a player from combat (like Hold person) effectively making them sit quietly for 30 minutes while everyone else has fun without them. THOSE are abilities I'd like to see looked at - sending someone below 0 HP is one thing, or even making them attack the nearest target or themselves while confused still has them participating, but things that entirely prevent a player from playing for an extended period of time just seem to detract from the game.
I was once invited to a D&D session. Before I could make my mind up whether to play or to run away, angry, scared and confused like a demented wolf that had it's tail ripped off by a Hills Hoist, the invite faded away. Apparently D&D was hard enough to set up, let alone play. So if they're simplifying the rules or at least giving the players more freedom of choice where the rules are concerned, I'm fine with that.
I feel obligated to remind everyone that Greg Tito has a vested interest in talking down 4e and D&D Next because he's pushing a competing product.
Journalistic integrity (in the games industry at least) is pretty much nil, but it's something people ought to know when reading anything related to D&D from him.
Journalistic integrity (in the games industry at least) is pretty much nil, but it's something people ought to know when reading anything related to D&D from him.
I would temper that by saying there needs to be balance though. If there is one thing that's worse then a DM/players that never breaks from rules it's a DM that never adheres to them. Rules and rulings give the world structure and should be relied on to be consistent and fair.darksakul said:
Hm, I think I'll be looking into this one a bit deeper than I did 4th edition. I may actually leave behind all trappings of 2nd edition this time around.
I'm never going back to hitpoints, though. I made the Star Wars vitality/wound system work with D&D, and I'm sticking with it. Homebrew for life and whatnot.
captchasolve: goody gumdrop. We'll see.
I'm never going back to hitpoints, though. I made the Star Wars vitality/wound system work with D&D, and I'm sticking with it. Homebrew for life and whatnot.
Hey Astroturf,Astroturf said:
I am about as far from "talking down 4e and D&D Next" as one could possible get. I've written material for 4th edition for WotC and Goodman Games and played in many 4th edition campaigns, in addition to contributing to the Adventurer Conqueror King System. It's true that my tastes have shifted so that 4th is no longer my preferred game, and I feel ignoring my opinion wouldn't give me any more "integrity".
I don't see ACKS as a competing product. There's just no way for a small publishing company like Autarch to draw anywhere near the sales and brand recognition of D&D and Pathfinder. Also, there have always been different RPG systems in the marketplace which enrich the total tabletop landscape without competing for customers.
As I stated in my series on the current state of the RPG industry, a healthy D&D makes for a healthy industry. In other words, the success of the new edition of D&D will hopefully trickle down to the smaller houses, like it did with the launch of third edition in 2000.
I don't know how you interpreted the article above as "talking down" but I hope this message is completely clear: I am rooting heavily for D&D Next to be as awesome as Mike Mearls and his team can make it.
Greg
Abandon Tokienian fantasy, and profit.
My game I run every friday now, is in a non Tolkien world. And I have not looked back. It is so refreshing to play a zebra-taur, an otyugh or a boggard instead of an elf, halfling or dwarf. To just copy paste common fantasy tropes is lazy, as lazy as copy pasting cultures. You can't claim real originality easily if all you do is regurgitate the old, and what is expected. Take out the old, add in new monsters and cultures and go from there, if you want your setting to be new, look to some sci fi for inspiration.
Homebrew for life ioc. There is so much that can be done, and done well.
My game I run every friday now, is in a non Tolkien world. And I have not looked back. It is so refreshing to play a zebra-taur, an otyugh or a boggard instead of an elf, halfling or dwarf. To just copy paste common fantasy tropes is lazy, as lazy as copy pasting cultures. You can't claim real originality easily if all you do is regurgitate the old, and what is expected. Take out the old, add in new monsters and cultures and go from there, if you want your setting to be new, look to some sci fi for inspiration.
Homebrew for life ioc. There is so much that can be done, and done well.
Oh for f*cks sake, stop trying to teach us how to play RPGs. We know it already, some of us are in business longer than half of your staff. How about giving us something to play with instead ? How about official campaigns and adventures that are something better than sets of tactical encounters ?
>:|
I completely agree. Even "charm person" or "dominate person"[footnote]sometimes[/footnote] can be fun if the players get into it, but Hold Person and other complete lockdowns are no fun.Bara_no_Hime said:
I do see where they're coming from a bit though - having too many little bonuses makes things hard to keep track of, and so that should be reduced. However, most of my players ask the same types of questions yours do:
DM said:
Bobby the Paladin said:
and the DM responds with either this or that:Erin the Elf said:
Cryptic DM said:
Nice DM said:
I ran one DnD campaign before(it ended when my player's decided they would rather kill the good dragon and hole up in his castle than save the world from the apocalypse.), but every time after that I try to get into it, it just takes way too long to get everything set up. It practically takes an entire session just to get character's set up a lot of the time.
Does anyone have any recommendations for a game with a lot simpler setup than DnD?
Does anyone have any recommendations for a game with a lot simpler setup than DnD?
So make it clear from the get-go? My players tend to know I improvise a lot and they're fine with it.darksakul said:
I take it we're talking about fantasy setting, right ?upgray3dd said:
- Pathfinder
- Earthdawn
There are also a lot of simpler systems, for example :
- Risus
- The Extraordinary Adventures of Baron Munchausen
They aren't richly detailed or supported but they have an advantage of being capable of switching form "preparation" to "playing" phase in the matter of seconds. ;]
Edit : You may also try to simply prepare some characters by yourself and ask gamers to play with them instead of wasting time for dice rolling. Works miracles if properly done.