Manga Translator Appeals Child Pornography Charges

The Wooster

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Manga Translator Appeals Child Pornography Charges


According to the Swedish courts, cartoon characters are people too.

Manga translating Swede, Simon Lundström, was convicted of possessing child pornography back in 2010, despite the fact the "manga images" used to convict him featured no real children. Sweden's Court of Appeals upheld its conviction against him after an appeal back in January of 2011, but lowered the amount of images he was to be prosecuted for from 59 to 39. The punishment Lundström faces is relatively minor - a fine of around $780 following his appeal - but the conviction still marks him as a sex offender. He did lose his job translating for publisher, Bonnier Carlsen, after has was convicted. The court verdict also states that he can no longer offer his services as a "manga expert."

For those of you who love picking up random terms you will never use in casual conversation: "Lolicon," a portmanteau of the phrase "Lolita Complex," is used to refer to manga that depict characters with childlike characteristics, often in an erotic manner.

"These are not real people," said University of Gävle comics researcher, Johan Höjer, during the initial trial. "The prosecution has a tendency to view these drawings as camouflaged photos, but these are animated fantasies."

The prosecution, however, argued that the images could be used to entice children into performing sexual acts, and even went as far as to suggest the artists involved in the work could have used real children as models.

"And even a drawing could be of a real child," said prosecutor, Hedvig Trost. "A photo depicting a real child could have been used to make the drawing. It is hard from the outside to know whether there is an original photo or not."

The Swedish courts are still struggling with the question of whether or not lines on paper technically count as children - evidently they don't agree with Magritte's view on the matter - but Trost's argument is ridiculous. Director, John McTiernan, could have perfected Die Hard's gritty, yet realistic, action scenes by mercilessly gunning down hobos as research - yet the Swedish police force have yet to arrest Bruce Willis as an accessory to murder.

The Supreme Court will announce its verdict in "a few weeks." In the meantime, a criminal inspector working for Sweden's National Bureau of Investigation's child pornography unit has written a piece for the Svenska Dagbladet newspaper. In it, he argues that the images should not be considered pornography and added that he was "doubtful of how a conviction would benefit those children who are actually suffering from real abuse which is being documented."

Source: The Local [http://www.thelocal.se/40842/20120515/]

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Kopikatsu

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Yeaaaaah. I'm of the opinion that 'pornography featuring fictional children cause people to become pedophiles/entice children into sexual acts' is about as accurate as 'Call of Duty is a war simulator that trains kids to shoot up their schools'.
 

JoJo

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It's a sad day when someone can be marked for life as a "sex offender" for having drawings which hurt no-one. I personally find lolicon distasteful but why waste stretched resources when tragically few people who make porn where real living children are abused are ever tracked down and prosecuted?
 

DEAD34345

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I find the whole "Loli" thing more than a little creepy, but these arguments are just absurd.

"A photo depicting a real child could have been used to make the drawing. It is hard from the outside to know whether there is an original photo or not."

How wasn't the prosecution laughed out of the court-room? I mean seriously, what the hell is going on here!? Are people so afraid of being labelled a paedophile sympathiser that they can't even speak up against blatant insanity like this?
 

Queen Michael

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I met him and talked to him at a convention after he was convicted. He's a nice guy, and a great translator who actually cares about writing text that sounds good. He's not like the kind of bad translator who's all about fetishistically including as many suffixes, Japanese words and improperly used quotation marks as possible. One Piece just isn't the same without his translation. The new translator writes like an American trying to learn Swedish, no disrespect to Americans intended.
 
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So if you burn a book, does it count as murder?

What if you steal one, would that be kidnapping on top of theft?
 

kouriichi

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Sure, they "could" have used pictures of real children to draw these things. Just and Todd Mcfarlane could be on a first name bases with Spawn, and follow him around the slums of michigan with a Sketch book and a bag of pencils.

In the end, we "could" all be potential murderers, rapists, or cannibals. Does this mean we should lock up everyone who shows any sign of aggressive or sexual behavior, just to be safe?

The term "could" should only be available to the defense in a court of law, because if the prosecution or judges are free to throw it around, theres no real way to defend yourself, other then saying "could" back.

Oh, i also "could" have perfected a homemade jet-pack in my closet, and am typing this on my "James Bond" style wristwatch while flying over the pacific. You know, because i have diagrams to build these things from.
 

Flailing Escapist

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For those of you who love picking up random terms you will never use in casual conversation: "Loli," a portmanteau of the phrase "Lolita Complex," is used to refer to manga that depict characters with childlike characteristics, often in an erotic manner...

...The prosecution, however, argued that the images could be used to entice children into performing sexual acts, and even went as far as to suggest the artists involved in the work could have used real children as models.
So what I'm getting is that if kids see kids (or people who look like kids) posing in "erotic manner" it will entice kids to have sex. So.... kids seeing people who don't look like kids posing in "erotic manners" - then it's okay, right?


So what you're telling me is that these lolita characters will make children want to have sex (because Victoria's Secret is practically the Kamasutra).. I don't even. What?


SILLY COURTS ARE SILLY!
 

Flailing Escapist

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Irridium said:
So if you burn a book, does it count as murder?

What if you steal one, would that be kidnapping on top of theft?
Ha, if you say you don't like a book it's slander. And if you throw it across the room, it's abuse.
 

Desworks

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Grey Carter said:
In the meantime, a criminal inspector working for Sweden's National Bureau of Investigation's child pornography unit has written a piece for the Svenska Dagbladet newspaper. In it, he argues that the images should not be considered pornography and added that he was "doubtful of how a conviction would benefit those children who are actually suffering from real abuse which is being documented."
Well, at least there's someone being sensible over there. Loli's may not be considered tasteful, but to consider them to be Child Pornography is stupidity on a rarely observed scale. Though sadly something we will no doubt see more often, as knee jerk reactions seem to be the order of the day as courts get used to the new interconnected world the internet opened up.
 

Saulkar

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Grey Carter said:
In the meantime, a criminal inspector working for Sweden's National Bureau of Investigation's child pornography unit has written a piece for the Svenska Dagbladet newspaper. In it, he argues that the images should not be considered pornography and added that he was "doubtful of how a conviction would benefit those children who are actually suffering from real abuse which is being documented."



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The very person who honestly works hard to protect children from real predators has his head in the right place.

Seriously?! How is prosecuting fantasy going to make children any safer? It is like saying that arresting the people who designed the airport massacre at the beginning of Modern Warfare 2 will make air travel safer from terrorists.
 

Dreadman75

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DVS BSTrD said:
Grey Carter said:
Manga Translator Appeals Child Pornography Charges

According to the Swedish courts, cartoon characters are people too.
I'll believe cartoons are people when Texas executes one.
Challenge accepted.

Now we just need an acceptable precedent...
...
...
...
...I GOT IT! Someone call the police to arrest Spongebob for trying to market LSD to children!

OT: Seriously?! What the hell is wrong with these people. If it's a drawing of a fictional character then who the hell cares?

Sounds to me like someone in this is either a little too sensitive or is just an idiot.
 

Johnson McGee

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IMO many styles of manga seem to depict characters anywhere in the age range of 10 to 30 as virtually identical regarding age related features. Unless the comic comes right out and says the character is a child how could you prove the image is even of a child character?
 

weirdee

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It's just another damn waste of time, really. What coward would even bother to go after this easy target to bolster their career?
 

Sixcess

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A few questions:

Would anyone care to link to these images? Would doing so be considered a breach of posting rules? Would the Escapist receiving unwelcome attention from the FBI for allowing these images to be accessed via this site?

If theses are explicitly sexual images it's porn, and if those depicted are depicted as children then it's child porn.

The prosecution's arguments aren't exactly well thought out, but let's not hide behind technicalities. If it looks like a duck and it quacks like a duck it's a duck.
 

Rooster Cogburn

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JoJo said:
It's a sad day when someone can be marked for life as a "sex offender" for having drawings which hurt no-one. I personally find lolicon distasteful but why waste stretched resources when tragically few people who make porn where real living children are abused are ever tracked down and prosecuted?
Sadly, I think you just answered your own question. Someone has to be destroyed, and this guy drew the short straw. The alternative is some sniveling bureaucrats might look ineffective.
 

evilneko

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Grey Carter said:
For those of you who love picking up random terms you will never use in casual conversation: "Loli," a portmanteau of the phrase "Lolita Complex," is used to refer to manga that depict characters with childlike characteristics, often in an erotic manner.
No, the portmanteau of Lolita Complex is "lolicon," (those whacky Japs and their m/n switcheroos!) not loli. Loli just means young or young-looking girl.

The More You Know!
 

ThunderCavalier

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So, this person has apparently lost his job and is unable to get it back... by happening to possess images related TO his job.