Flickering for Fun and Profit
- Thread starter Encaen
- Start date
Or local meta is either a pod, or it's just a 5/3 creature that does life gain and trades into a 3/3. Most of the local meta here doesn't do G/W.
Well... you can utilize two [mtg_card=Conjurer's Closet]s with [mtg_card=Zealous Conscripts] to set up your own little kidnapping engine.
Combine them with [mtg_card=Thragtusk] and [mtg_card=Garruk's Packleader] as a draw engine (netting you 2 cards per flicker, one for the token and another when Tusky reenters), as well as a lovely life-gain engine, letting you beef up [mtg_card=Serra Avatar] to insane proportions (then toss [mtg_card=Rancor] and a Ring or two on it... and just laugh).
Actually, I'm thinking up a nifty Azorious concept, combining with the lovely lifegain potential in [mtg_card=Rhox Faithmender] and [mtg_card=Healer of the Pride] (plus [mtg_card=Attended Knight] or [mtg_card=Captain of the Watch]) with utility spells like [mtg_card=Ghostly Flicker], [mtg_card=Tricks of the Trade], [mtg_card=Ghostform], etc... and Avatar + [mtg_card=Infinite Reflection] (it's not Legendary!) as a win condition.
I'll be very, very happy if the new Ravnica set brings back [mtg_card=Felidar Sovereign] or [mtg_card=Test of Endurance]... though I and our local FNM groups are working extensively to make a [mtg_card=Battle of Wits] deck.
Side question: Can someone explain to me exactly how Regeneration works? I've been having an argument with the local judge regarding some moves I did in a recent FNM (that were rescinded thanks to him, and it cost me both the match and 5th place.)
I have [mtg_card=Wolfir Avenger] on the field, and tap [mtg_card=Gilded Lotus] for Green, putting [mtg_card=Rancor] on him and activating his Regeneration ability before combat. Confused, my opponent calls the Judge, who ruled that Regenerate can only be activated during combat, and additionally, the activation of the ability caused my creature to tap and leave combat immediately (instead of when it would have been destroyed), saving the creature Avenger would have killed when blocked and preventing it from dealing (what turned out to be fatal) damage if unblocked.
Later, in the second game, another Avenger was victim to a [mtg_card=Day of Judgement], in response to which I also activate its Regenerate ability. The judge was called again, and he ruled that because my Avenger was not in combat, that Regenerate would not prevent its destruction from Day.
Am I right? are those moves legal? or was he correct to overrule me?
Combine them with [mtg_card=Thragtusk] and [mtg_card=Garruk's Packleader] as a draw engine (netting you 2 cards per flicker, one for the token and another when Tusky reenters), as well as a lovely life-gain engine, letting you beef up [mtg_card=Serra Avatar] to insane proportions (then toss [mtg_card=Rancor] and a Ring or two on it... and just laugh).
Actually, I'm thinking up a nifty Azorious concept, combining with the lovely lifegain potential in [mtg_card=Rhox Faithmender] and [mtg_card=Healer of the Pride] (plus [mtg_card=Attended Knight] or [mtg_card=Captain of the Watch]) with utility spells like [mtg_card=Ghostly Flicker], [mtg_card=Tricks of the Trade], [mtg_card=Ghostform], etc... and Avatar + [mtg_card=Infinite Reflection] (it's not Legendary!) as a win condition.
I'll be very, very happy if the new Ravnica set brings back [mtg_card=Felidar Sovereign] or [mtg_card=Test of Endurance]... though I and our local FNM groups are working extensively to make a [mtg_card=Battle of Wits] deck.
Side question: Can someone explain to me exactly how Regeneration works? I've been having an argument with the local judge regarding some moves I did in a recent FNM (that were rescinded thanks to him, and it cost me both the match and 5th place.)
I have [mtg_card=Wolfir Avenger] on the field, and tap [mtg_card=Gilded Lotus] for Green, putting [mtg_card=Rancor] on him and activating his Regeneration ability before combat. Confused, my opponent calls the Judge, who ruled that Regenerate can only be activated during combat, and additionally, the activation of the ability caused my creature to tap and leave combat immediately (instead of when it would have been destroyed), saving the creature Avenger would have killed when blocked and preventing it from dealing (what turned out to be fatal) damage if unblocked.
Later, in the second game, another Avenger was victim to a [mtg_card=Day of Judgement], in response to which I also activate its Regenerate ability. The judge was called again, and he ruled that because my Avenger was not in combat, that Regenerate would not prevent its destruction from Day.
Am I right? are those moves legal? or was he correct to overrule me?
Sounds like your judge is a bit out of date with his rules or has very bad reading comprehension, that's how regeneration kind of worked a very long time ago. When something regenerates a permanent it creates a replacement effect that protects the permanent from being destroyed the next time it would be destroyed. So you were right, he was wrong 701.12 in the comp rules covers Regenerate.2xDouble said:
Why would you cut Birds and use the Pilgrim? Is 1 power on a creature that never attacks worth losing the versatility of the Birds?Encaen said:
OP: I hate Thragtusk. I'm a Delver player, countering him is my only way of dealing with him and Cavern makes that a toss-up. He was made to specifically counter my type of play style.
To answer the question, Birthing Pod and Resto Angel are the best ways to use him. They do a number of things. Cloudshift just doesn't have enough uses.
my friend made a deck completely focussed on stealing creatures like this. he made it red and blue and white and filled it with treacherous bloods, mark of treason,zelous conscripts, etc etc. then he used ghostly flickers, conjurers closets, and cloudshifts to keep them. if he didnt have a flicker available hed steal then sack it to skirsdag occultist to deal 2 extra dmg from it after he attacked with it.
i always ve to rush my shimian spectre to try to stop him
i always ve to rush my shimian spectre to try to stop him
The rule book entry on the Wizards site says2xDouble said:
To prevent a permanent from being destroyed later in the turn. A regeneration effect works like a shield. A spell or ability that says ?Regenerate [a permanent]? puts a regeneration shield on that permanent that can be used up at any time during the turn. If a permanent would be destroyed and it has a regeneration shield, it?s not destroyed. Instead, it becomes tapped, it?s removed from combat (if it?s an attacking or blocking creature), and all damage is removed from it. That regeneration shield is then used up. The permanent never leaves the battlefield, so any Auras, Equipment, or counters that were on it remain there. Any unused regeneration shields go away during the cleanup step.
Although a permanent with a regeneration shield can?t be destroyed, it can still be put into the graveyard for other reasons. See the glossary entry for Destroy.
The judge was wrong in this case. Regeneration can be activated at any time and is not combat specific.
I've been running a midrange Naya deck built around this concept since AVR came out. It's been performing very well except against the dreaded zombiepod deck which is usually just too fast for me.
here's my current list:
3 Birds of Paradise
2 Spellskite
2 blade splicer
2 Daybreak Ranger
4 Restoration Angel
3 Huntmaster of the Fells
3 Zealous Conscript
1 Wolfir Silverheart
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
2 Thragtusk
2 Acidic Slime
4 Cloudshift
3 Rampant Growth
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Cavern of Souls
6 Forest
2 Mountain
2 Plains
3 Copperline Gorge
3 Razorverge Thicket
3 Sunpetal Grove
3 Rootbound Crag
sideboard:
2 Garruk Relentless
2 spellskite
4 Pillar of Flame
2 Silklash Spider
3 phyrexian metamorph
2 oblivion ring
here's my current list:
3 Birds of Paradise
2 Spellskite
2 blade splicer
2 Daybreak Ranger
4 Restoration Angel
3 Huntmaster of the Fells
3 Zealous Conscript
1 Wolfir Silverheart
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
2 Thragtusk
2 Acidic Slime
4 Cloudshift
3 Rampant Growth
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Cavern of Souls
6 Forest
2 Mountain
2 Plains
3 Copperline Gorge
3 Razorverge Thicket
3 Sunpetal Grove
3 Rootbound Crag
sideboard:
2 Garruk Relentless
2 spellskite
4 Pillar of Flame
2 Silklash Spider
3 phyrexian metamorph
2 oblivion ring
What boring cards are you using to not give [mtg_card=Cloudshift] enough uses? You're obviously not using it on [mtg_card=Fiend Hunter] while his ability to exile a creature is still on the stack so his leaves play trigger will fail to return a creature before his enters play ability exiles one. You're obviously not using it with one of the titans to use their comes into play abilities. You're obviously not using it with a Clone during the beginning of the combat step to switch it to a Thundermaw Hellkite in order to save yourself.RedEyesBlackGamer said:
The fact that it's only 1 mana is what makes it useful.
This is pretty awesome, and it looks a lot like where I was going with my Naya build before I opted to go whole hog on the [mtg_card=Thragtusk] strategy. I didn't get to test it much, but given your success with it, I may have to revisit!GrandmaFunk said:
I keep waffling on the inclusion of [mtg_card=Cavern of Souls], so the fact that he's human is relevant half the time. While I've only got around 20 games in with the deck so far, I've not really encountered a situation where I wished the Pilgrim was a Bird. I have, however, encountered situations where I got to trade a redundant Pilgrim for a Snapcaster in combat, which I wouldn't have been able to do with a Bird. I'm still not 100% sure it's correct to run Pilgrim over BoP, but it's done right by me so far.RedEyesBlackGamer said:
Restoration Angel does all of that and has a nice body too. Birthing Pod is essentially colorless and can go in far more decks. Unless you are going all in on Enter and Exit triggers, it just doesn't do enough to warrant a spot in a deck.vxicepickxv said:
Ah, okay. Synergy with Cavern is nice (but if you are countering a Pilgrim then you are either way ahead or way behind) and trading with Strangleroot and Snappy is great value. Comment mostly rescinded.Encaen said:I keep waffling on the inclusion of [mtg_card=Cavern of Souls], so the fact that he's human is relevant half the time. While I've only got around 20 games in with the deck so far, I've not really encountered a situation where I wished the Pilgrim was a Bird. I have, however, encountered situations where I got to trade a redundant Pilgrim for a Snapcaster in combat, which I wouldn't have been able to do with a Bird. I'm still not 100% sure it's correct to run Pilgrim over BoP, but it's done right by me so far.RedEyesBlackGamer said:
That has no effect on why you shouldn't play it now.2xDouble said:
Also, you got screwed over pretty hard by that judge. I can kind of see someone being confused by the first situation (thinking you can only regenerate in response to something), but the second situation with Day was just facepalm worthy.
Shouldn't it though? Shifting your own metagame to accommodate shifts in the metagame is just smart planning. Otherwise you'll have to adapt completely on the fly, and you'll be at a significant disadvantage in the future. Get used to not having the magical rainbow birds now, and learn how to play without relying on them, before you no longer have them.RedEyesBlackGamer said:
The specific color the 1-drop "mana dork" can produce is irrelevant; in this deck it's nothing more than a gateway for the actual key card, [mtg_card=Somberwald Sage]. As I understand it, the entire point of his deck is: Summon Somberwald -> Summon huge Angels -> Win. Birds, Pilgrim, [mtg_card=Llanowar Elves]... even [mtg_card=Arbor Elf], it's all meaningless. (unless you also happen to be running [mtg_card=Elvish Archdruid], but he doesn't really help summon Angels well). Two lands (at least one a Forest), Sage, and any 1-drop mana source leads to turn 3 [mtg_card=Sigarda, Host of Herons] or [mtg_card=Gisela, blade of Goldnight], and/or turn 4/5 [mtg_card=Avacyn, Angel of Hope], depending on what you need/how you play it.
2xDouble said:
I'll start adjusting when RTR starts getting spoiled. I have no idea how my Delver is going to change until I know what cards are rotating in. I have ideas based on predictions, but that is it. I'm going to enjoy Ponder for as long as I can.
In this deck Pilgrim taps for [W} and Birds taps for {W} or {G}. Birds has more versatility and makes your mana base that much more stable. It won't come up often, but the most frustrating part of a game for me is staring at a card in my hand and not being able to cast it due not having enough mana of a specific color. So a lot of this is my personal biases showing through and taking the best mana fixer available.
Something I don't think you've noticed about [mtg_card=Restoration Angel] are the facts that it costs more mana and it has targeting restrictions.RedEyesBlackGamer said:
No, I noticed that. But 3 more for an evasive and big 3/4 body and a targeting restriction that is non-relevant most of the time is still by far the better choice.vxicepickxv said: