No More Torture for Splinter Cell: Blacklist

Fanghawk

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No More Torture for Splinter Cell: Blacklist

Ubisoft Toronto has decided that Sam Fisher shouldn't be extracting intelligence at knife-point.

During E3 2012, Ubisoft Toronto presented footage from Splinter Cell: Blacklist in which a player-controlled Sam Fisher stabs and tortures an NPC for information. Not only does this scene paint the series in a much darker light than previous entries, it's also an understandably sensitive topic for many, and <a href=http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-08-18-new-splinter-cell-blacklist-walkthrough-video-demonstrates-controversial-torture-scene-moral-choices>negative reactions inevitably followed. In response, producer Andrew Wilson has stated that although the footage lacks context, including the fact that torture was an optional mechanic, Ubisoft Toronto has decided to remove the offending scene from the game.

"Definitely we are not going to see when the game's coming out that there are torture scenes in it," Wilson said. "That scene is not there any more. I've not really heard anyone say they loved it."

According to Wilson, part of the problem is that E3 presentations lack context and emphasize the appeal of violent in-game actions. "Because of the nature of E3, there are certain things that are easier to demonstrate," Wilson said. "Obviously we were up on stage at the beginning, and it's quite hard to get the value of a stealth playthrough in that environment. We would have got a negative reaction if we showed that kind of stuff." Wilson also stated that any torture scenes would have been optional, and that Blacklist's tone is actually fairly similar to previous Splinter Cell games.

I understand why in-game torture would make people uncomfortable, mostly because it makes me uncomfortable. That's kinda the point: you shouldn't watch a torture scene and say that you "loved it". Still, it's worth mentioning that the Black Ops games already depict player-sanctioned torture, and fairly unrealistic portrayals at that. In other media, <a href=http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/columns/moviebob/10126-Tortured-Logic>Zero Dark Thirty has sparked a conversation about torture in film, and there are many books and TV shows addressing the topic as well. Blacklist's torture scenes could ultimately have been dismissed as exploitative, but the subject matter may have been worth exploring, even if it's just an espionage game.

Source: <a href=http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-01-30-splinter-cell-blacklists-torture-scene-is-cut>Eurogamer

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Beautiful End

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Well, if they say the scenes would have been pointless and irrelevant to the game, then I'm fine with it. If they are being honest, then I admire the developers who are able to remove "Cool" elements from a game because they don't really have much to do with the rest of the game, either story wise or gameplay wise. I don't shy away from violence in games or torture scenes as gritty as they might be, but they must have a reason to be there, just like any other element in a videogame.

Reminds me of something Kojima did for MGS2. Supposedly, there was a part where Snake would run away from water, Indiana Jones style. But Kojima decided that it had nothing to do with the stealth-theme of the game and that was just there cause it was cool.
Now, I'm just talking about that game, not the whole series...
 

TornadoADV

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Torture is bad, but ramming a guy's head through multiple urinals is okay? There's a difference?

Captcha : It is different

Touche, Captcha, Touche.
 

cobra_ky

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Whether the use of torture was optional or not is irrelevant. The issue is propagating the lie that torture is effective and justifiable tactic.
 

Nazgual

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Not to say that games don't have the right to address torture, but the way it was presented in Blacklist and Conviction was disgusting. Not happy with the statements from this Wilson guy to be honest, I'd rather hear them admit they screwed up than "no one liked it so we cut it".
 

TheRussian

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cobra_ky said:
Whether the use of torture was optional or not is irrelevant. The issue is propagating the lie that torture is effective and justifiable tactic.
You know, as a story device it can be used, to demonstrate the unreliability of the extracted information. Say Fisher interrogates tortures some NPC, and the information is not only inaccurate, but sends Fisher on a wild goose chase that eventually results in serious consequences for Fisher. In this context, torture is a narrative tool for the writer. So in a meta-textual sense, it can work.
 

Metalrocks

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complaining about a torture scene. seriously???
well, face it, they do it for real, so either you accept it or dont play the game at all. doesnt mean you have to make a fuss about it and the company has to cut it out.

yes, torture is not good at all, dont get me wrong there, but hell, what you think spies do? offering them cookies and tea? why are people so retarded?
 

octafish

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TheRussian said:
cobra_ky said:
Whether the use of torture was optional or not is irrelevant. The issue is propagating the lie that torture is effective and justifiable tactic.
You know, as a story device it can be used, to demonstrate the unreliability of the extracted information. Say Fisher interrogates tortures some NPC, and the information is not only inaccurate, but sends Fisher on a wild goose chase that eventually results in serious consequences for Fisher. In this context, torture is a narrative tool for the writer. So in a meta-textual sense, it can work.
Our minds are in sync, it is uncanny...I was thinking if you stealth it up and observe action and conversations in a level you get solid intelligence if you torture you have say 15-20% chance of getting solid intelligence, with bad intelligence making the game harder and harder. Or even bad intelligence results in more QTEs?
 

mooncalf

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Because the last thing we want is our noble intelligence services to be painted as the morally ambiguous ends-justifies-means outfits we're all fairly sure that they are.
 

anian

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In Conviction you actually had different things to do to guys while extracting information, depending on where you are in the room and with locations such as a public bathroom or a kitchen it really gives to creativity. And you know what? After a whole level where these guys try to kill you and you have to sneak around, it feels good to feel like a badass.
Do I think or would do anything like that? NO, but I'm playing as Sam Fisher, not myself.

mooncalf said:
Because the last thing we want is our noble intelligence services to be painted as the morally ambiguous ends-justifies-means outfits we're all fairly sure that they are.
Especially in a fictional world with a fictional agency.
 

Tireseas_v1legacy

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Sep 28, 2009
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Rogue 09 said:
Yeah, torture is ugly and gritty, and it most definitely works. To be cowed out of something realistic in a game because "teh internets" have a problem show an amazing lack of spine for the developer.
No, it doesn't work [http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/the-lay-scientist/2010/nov/04/2], and Sam Fisher is the exact kind of operative who would know it doesn't work.
 

Legion

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There was torture in the last Splinter Cell. In the co-op missions you were given the option to do it. I am not sure how including one in this would be "painting the series in a darker light than previous entries."

I never got where people draw these bizarre lines in games. It's okay to drag a guard off of a lighthouse to his death just because he happened to be in the way (despite non-lethal options being available). But torturing a bad guy for vital information is wrong.

It doesn't even matter if it's something that works or not. The idea that it is somehow worse than all of the other violence you can do in games is ridiculous.
 

Scorpid

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I'm glad it was removed personally. I'm not actually against it being in but if they removed it because the context didn't make sense then I'm for it. I don't believe any subject or device should be removed from a story tellers tool box out of hand but the final product can and that it's fair to judge it in context of the real world. Also I'm generally against violence for the sake of violence.
 

Milanezi

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LysanderNemoinis said:
Breaking news: French owned studio surrenders. In other news: Grass still green.
Lol that's so true.


Anyway, gonna get boring without the badass torture behavior... Plus, torture is a very valid way to get info when one is 100% sure that the bastard/subject carries the information, I also believe it should be used as punishment for certain crimes, death is way to fast for some people. It falls short, and is actually absurd, when it is used at random to obtain information, because, heck, it's just fruitless, and might result in misinformation. However, as far as i remember, Sam always got the right people for info ;) Just like Batman hahah
 

Scorpid

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Milanezi said:
LysanderNemoinis said:
Breaking news: French owned studio surrenders. In other news: Grass still green.
Lol that's so true.


Anyway, gonna get boring without the badass torture behavior... Plus, torture is a very valid way to get info when one is 100% sure that the bastard/subject carries the information, I also believe it should be used as punishment for certain crimes, death is way to fast for some people. It falls short, and is actually absurd, when it is used at random to obtain information, because, heck, it's just fruitless, and might result in misinformation. However, as far as i remember, Sam always got the right people for info ;) Just like Batman hahah
Well aren't you a sadistic nutty bastard =/