Real Horror Games Don't Need Co-op

[Yahtzee Croshaw]

Real Horror Games Don't Need Co-op

Dead Space 3's Co-op mode goes against what survival horror is really about.

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[Erttheking]

Oh come on it's a concept that can work. Have you ever heard of the Hidden?

 

[Brainwreck]

What I want is:
a much smoother but no less complex STALKER game with drop-in drop-out Co-op. It would make entirely perfect sense within universe for you to just team up with other guys, and there is absolutely no way of making nighttime not a horrifying experience.
So that's my completely irrelevant opinions.

 

[Zhukov]

But I can't say I was ever actually expecting Dead Space 3 to go back to being survival horror - or indeed, start being survival horror for the first time ever - when they seem to be perfectly happy with what they were already doing. That is, incredibly gory action games with a severe sensory overload problem.

This is something along the lines of what I was thinking whenever I heard people getting stressed or bitter over DS3 getting more action-y.

"Oh no, they made the new game into an alien-blasting romp, when the series used to be, uh... an alien blasting romp. Huh."

As for the clash between multiplayer and story, that reminds me of Bungie's upcoming Destiny thing. The developers talked a whole bunch about the world and the story, then mentioned that it's going to be full of other players, Other players who will inevitably be bunny hopping and teabagging and firing their weapons into the air whenever they get bored.

 

[twm1709]

I'm anxious to read his opinions on the share button, because I really can't think of any problems with an optional feature that can (and it my case probably will) be ignored completely. Also seem to remember him being so proud of that one X-COM strategy he mentioned once that I can almost imagine him wanting to show it to the world.

 

[Falseprophet]

Well, survival-horror in games has become what science fiction is now in film. All big-budget SF films made today have to be welded to another genre. Usually "stylish action thriller", but sometimes war film, noir, horror, or romance. There's a "we need a big audience to pay for this film" mentality going on there, I think. To see something approaching pure science-fiction, you need to go to low-budget indie films. Even a comparatively low-budget film like District 9 had to throw in a action-packed climax.

Likewise with horror games. Indie games can still do survival horror, but AAA horror titles always have to be action-y too.

 

[itsthesheppy]

It's gotten to the point where I will avoid buying a game is co-op is advertised strongly. Sorry, I have MMOs for that.

 

[BrotherRool]

Interesting(?) choice of title.


The bit of the end is my big problem, weirdly enough, with The Old Republic at the moment. They#re trying to tell a story and sell a setting in an MMO space and it just doesn't work because well, people. It's quite hard to feel like I'm in the Star Wars universe when two Jedi are calling each other knobheads and a Sith is trying to flog some second hand boots.

But they didn't even try. The whole story is 'you are the chosen one' BS which actively ignores the hundreds of people around you doing stuff. Instead of embracing it's MMOness and trying to write a story that fits the idea of thousands of Jedi battling across vast worlds trying to push back the Sith they give you a single player storyline that forces your brain to shut off everyone else to keep immersion

 

[deathbydeath]

What I want is:
a much smoother but no less complex STALKER game with drop-in drop-out Co-op. It would make entirely perfect sense within universe for you to just team up with other guys, and there is absolutely no way of making nighttime not a horrifying experience.
So that's my completely irrelevant opinions.

I was hoping that GSC, when they announced converting Stalker 2 into an MMOFPS, would do basically turn Stalker into an MMO with other people. That would've been wonderful.

OP: Here's something I think is relevant, and an opportunity to pull out one of my favorite reviewers (you just need to watch the first minute-ish of the video):

 

[vandervoet]

Yahtzee has not seen this article about social reading...

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/story/2013/02/22/f-prpick-ebook.html

 

[Darth_Payn]

When Yahtzee said "pussy mode", my mind went to a weird place, which is not good when reading about a game where the monsters are mutated human corpses.
I never bought into the idea that the Dead Space games were survival horror, since from the first game, Isaac's main weapon was the Swiss Army Knife of power tools. And I think he could stop time or something.

 

[Koil]

I haven't played a co-op survival horror, so forgive me if this has been tried and failed miserably. It's my impression that, for the majority of these games, players are together in the same room, working on the same objective. Are there any games that force the separation, so you can still hear your partner over the headset, but are in no position to help them? It seems like, if you're going to shove co-op into a horror game, that would be the way to do it. You're not just trying to work your way through a level, you're trying to run through it in time to save your panicking partner who is low on ammo. Or maybe you're the one locked weeping in a closet, hoping you can force enough one-on-one melees to give your partner enough time to reach you.

 

[The Deadpool]

The beauty of co op? It's OPTIONAL.

Some people can actually play through a game co op and get engrossed in the story. Some people wouldn't get engrossed even playing single player. Some people go alone first and then with a second player. Some people just go at it alone. Some people play games TO hang out with friends.

The thing is by giving person B the option of playing co op you aren't taking away from person A the option to play it single player. Although there are a few things about co op that developers seem to worry too much about:

1) Fuck the story. Seriously. Stop trying to force excuses for there to be two people in a cutscene. If it doesn't make sense in your story, then don't waste your time trying to make a square peg fit in a round hole. See Saints Row for how to make co op work in a single player story.

I would enjoy Bethesda games considerably more if it had Saint's Row's co op mode.

2) Co op unique story sucks. I know, I know, it was the second player's story, but it still sucks that it can't be experienced in single player. Maybe having a new game plus where you play as the OTHER guy would have fixed that right quick.

3) We don't have to be side by side AT ALL GOD DAMNED TIMES. Splitting up the team is fun, and it doesn't have to be for five second segments.

 

[C117]

"[...] the recent example of playing Aliens: Colonial Marines co-op with a friend (review coming very soon!) [...]"

...

I'm going to enjoy this...

 

[warrenEBB]

I think the problem is just that the co-op experience is in it's infancy. I look forward to a co-op horror experience designed to emphasize terror isolation and suspense.

- design it so that there are times when your co-op buddy will appear as monster (maybe after being poisoned), so you'll have to shout over the headphones "don't shoot me" "which one are you" "i'm at your 6. no i mean your 3. ahh!"
- design it so that your co-op buddy is mostly separated from you. mostly joining up when there are no baddies, to offer a break from the tension. and maybe swap items.
- design it so that audio cuts out at key points. like one player can see the other, but suddenly his mic goes on the fritz - making it hard to warn them.
(think of that scene in Alien. where one person has to crawl around in the ventilation tunnels, while another person tries to explain where the monster is, and which way they should run).
- design it so that it seems clear to player 1 what player2 should do ("go pull that switch, p2! what is taking so long!"), but design player2's path so that it's ridiculously hard to do the obvious (tons of critters around the switch that p1 can't see). foster tension between the players.
- record what one player says (perhaps based on volume or intensity) and then play it back later when, they are being attacked again. sow confusion.

- and most of all, play with the illusion of shared reality. ("do you see this thing on the table?" "no man, i don't even see a table. I see your dead body though." "uh, what?") DeadSpace seems like a perfect game for this sort of insanity effect. in fact, i thought it WAS in there. i was going to buy it BECAUSE i heard there were purposeful differences between each player's perceptions in co-op. uh. hmmf.

anywho. just because the lights go out, doesn't mean people shut up in a theatre. the movie has to be designed to demand their attention and respect. i think co-op is in a similar boat.

 

[Pyrian]

I want a "hey, this is my first playthrough and I'm actually watching that cut-scene, don't skip it" button.

 

[Kalahee]

1) Isolate 2) Seperate.... 4 quarters for a buck. 3) Pursue.... SO a rock rolling to squish Indiana Jones is an horror factor? Tomb Raider is an horror genre?

In my opinion, and I really respect Yathzee and love his Zero Punctuation serie, he is wrong about the WHOLE concept of horror genre. 1) Heavy Atmosphere, 2) Mutilated Death (decapitated, amputed or mauled), 3) Bloody or Ghostly Exposition (corpses or messages), 4) Unknown Threat/Inhumane Opposition (A serial killer or zombies are considered inhumane), 5) Unexpected Events, 6) Limited resource to fight back. "Survival" is just another word for "Don't die and it won't be easy."

Under such definition, COOP isn't incompatible : OBSCURE game is the best example of HORROR COOP done right. SILENT HILL (2) which is Yathzee's favorite Horror game is all about finding your way, shooting weirdly sewed bodies, solving puzzles, with unexpected cutscenes. Why is it good? Solid story. Resident Evil that many still consider an horror game have all that too. Adding a 2nd player wouldn't change it except for the difficulty that would be balanced by the need to carefully manage the resources between two players and may make one of them unable to fight and need to run.