Nvidia: Console Graphics Will Never Again Outpace PCs

Andy Chalk

One Flag, One Fleet, One Cat
Nov 12, 2002
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Nvidia: Console Graphics Will Never Again Outpace PCs


Nvidia Senior Vice President Tony Tamasi says it's no longer possible for consoles to be better graphics platforms than PCs.

Let's get this out of the way early: Referring to "the PC" as if it's a standardized piece of hardware is dodgy business. Unlike consoles, PCs come in all shapes, sizes and capabilities, and so when referring to them in comparison to consoles, the general assumption has to be that it's high-end, cutting-edge equipment being discussed. And that kind of hardware, according to Tamasi, will always out-muscle anything that a console can bring to the table.

"It's no longer possible for a console to be a better or more capable graphics platform than the PC," he told PC PowerPlay. "In the past, certainly with the first PlayStation and PS2, in that era there weren't really good graphics on the PC. Around the time of the PS2 is when 3D really started coming to the PC, but before that time 3D was the domain of Silicon Graphics and other 3D workstations. Sony, Sega or Nintendo could invest in bringing 3D graphics to a consumer platform."

The Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 were "on par" with PCs when they launched, he continued, because they're both powered by technology from either AMD or Nvidia, which is where all the innovation in graphics is now being done. "Nvidia spends 1.5 billion US dollars per year on research and development in graphics, every year, and in the course of a console's lifecycle we'll spend over 10 billion dollars into graphics research," he said. "Sony and Microsoft simply can't afford to spend that kind of money. They just don't have the investment capacity to match the PC guys; we can do it thanks to economy of scale, as we sell hundreds of millions of chips, year after year."

The other limiting factor is simply the power needed to drive the technology. Because the core graphics technology in consoles is the same as in PCs, there isn't going to be any meaningful improvement in efficiency, which means that in order to drive significantly more powerful GPUs a console would require a much beefier power supply. "Consoles have power budgets of only 200 or 300 Watts, so they can put them in the living room, using small fans for cooling, yet run quietly and cool," Tamasi explained. "And that's always going to be less capable than a PC, where we spend 250W just on the GPU. There's no way a 200W Xbox is going to be beat a 1000W PC."

Of course, not everyone is going to have a 1000W PSU in their rig, nor are very many people likely to pony up for an Nvidia Titan, which costs literally twice as much as an Xbox One. But in three years, the Titan will sell for a third of what it's currently going for and some new whiz-bang hardware will be perched on the bleeding edge, while the Xbox One will still be an Xbox One.

Source: PC PowerPlay [http://www.pcpowerplay.com.au/2013/09/nvidia-interview-the-sky-isnt-falling/]


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Ed130 The Vanguard

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Sep 10, 2008
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I think the phrase 'no shit' springs to mind here.

Do you really think the Titan will depreciate that much in 3 years Mr Chalk?
 

The White Hunter

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Oct 19, 2011
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No fucking shit.

And if you need a 1000W power supply for gaming you have likely been misinformed by a salesperson.
 

Hazy992

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Aug 1, 2010
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I'm not disputing what he's saying, but why do I get the feeling they're only saying this stuff because they're butthurt all the next-gen consoles are using AMD chips? Sounds like shit-stirring to me.

OF COURSE a console isn't going to outpace PC, unless console manufacturers stick a Titan in there and release a new console every year. Consoles are bound to go obsolete sooner or later.

EDIT: Better put in a disclaimer that you don't need a Titan or upgrade yearly to play PC games. It's an extreme example.
 

Still Life

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Hazy992 said:
EDIT: Better put in a disclaimer that you don't need a Titan or upgrade yearly to play PC games. It's an extreme example.

I don't really see a Titan as a gaming GPU, really - It's overkill to buy that *just* for gaming, unless you're a hardware enthusiast/overclocker. I feel like the mid-range cards are usually more than adequate for most customers.
 

Hazy992

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Aug 1, 2010
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Still Life said:
Hazy992 said:
EDIT: Better put in a disclaimer that you don't need a Titan or upgrade yearly to play PC games. It's an extreme example.

I don't really see a Titan as a gaming GPU, really - It's overkill to buy that *just* for gaming, unless you're a hardware enthusiast/overclocker. I feel like the mid-range cards are usually more than adequate for most customers.
Agreed, something like a 660 and above and you're golden for a good long while.
 

tangoprime

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May 5, 2011
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Still Life said:
Hazy992 said:
EDIT: Better put in a disclaimer that you don't need a Titan or upgrade yearly to play PC games. It's an extreme example.

I don't really see a Titan as a gaming GPU, really - It's overkill for gaming alone. I feel like the mid-range cards are usually more than adequate for most customers.
Exactly, I'm still getting by just fine on a pair of GTX 560ti cards I picked up like 2 years ago. I don't see them needing replacement any time soon.
 

Adam Jensen_v1legacy

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Sep 8, 2011
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We know. And we also know that PC games will never be as optimized as console games and they will always require more raw power to run games at console settings. And that's mostly because of bloated operating systems that are not designed specifically for gaming. Windows still has a shitty bloated kernel and that won't change as long as Microsoft has practically a monopoly on desktop operating systems.
 

Kyrdra

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Ed130 said:
I think the phrase 'no shit' springs to mind here.

Do you really think the Titan will depreciate that much in 3 years Mr Chalk?
IF the rumor about ATI's new flagship card are true then yes. It is only slightly under the Titan. If they price it lower then the price of the titan will drop quickly
 

Roxas1359

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Aug 8, 2009
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Well a big "No duh" should be placed over the picture I believe.
Something's telling me he's still pissed that AMD got the bid for all 3 of the 8th Gen consoles and Nvidia didn't get a single one. Seriously, the only news I ever really seem to hear is some person from Nvidia angry at the PS4 or other game console.
Plus, I know the Titan is nice, but I like my AMD Radeon 7770 chip just fine, and it didn't cost me the soul of my best friend's unborn child Nvidia!
 

Ed130 The Vanguard

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Sep 10, 2008
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Kyrdra said:
Ed130 said:
I think the phrase 'no shit' springs to mind here.

Do you really think the Titan will depreciate that much in 3 years Mr Chalk?
IF the rumor about ATI's new flagship card are true then yes. It is only slightly under the Titan. If they price it lower then the price of the titan will drop quickly
Yay, maybe then I'll be able to afford one. Or the rumoured ATI, whichever offers the most bang for my money.
 

Doom972

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Dec 25, 2008
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Still Life said:
Hazy992 said:
EDIT: Better put in a disclaimer that you don't need a Titan or upgrade yearly to play PC games. It's an extreme example.

I don't really see a Titan as a gaming GPU, really - It's overkill to buy that *just* for gaming, unless you're a hardware enthusiast/overclocker. I feel like the mid-range cards are usually more than adequate for most customers.
Same here. I never buy the best GPU available when getting a new PC or upgrading. The price isn't worth it for a regular gamer. As long as I keep to a 1600x900 resolution (which looks fine to me), I can run most games with most options maxed out with my GeForce GTS 240. It did burn out a couple times, but Dell has excellent warranty.
 
Dec 16, 2009
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ah well, bit obvious, but gives me something to refer me "Xbox One will shit all over your PC"
none of them knew why I was laughing
 

mattaui

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Oct 16, 2008
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Huh, I've had a 1000W PSU in my box for the last three or four years because it was just a bit more than the 750 I was looking at, and I wanted to make sure I didn't have to worry about a new PSU for awhile.

I agree that the real bang for your buck isn't the top of the line cards but the ones in the middle where you can really get phenomenal value.

Oh, but this was about how PCs are going to always outpace consoles. I didn't think that was ever in question, really.

One thing a console does do, and you can't really overstate this, is it largely prevents untrained individuals from mucking up their OSes with dodgy programs and wrong drivers that make their system perform less capably than it should. I suppose that's worth something to a lot of folks. I've seen more than a few gaming PCs that were so poorly maintained (both from the software and hardware angle) that they weren't getting the performance they paid for.
 

PoolCleaningRobot

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Hazy992 said:
I'm not disputing what he's saying, but why do I get the feeling they're only saying this stuff because they're butthurt all the next-gen consoles are using AMD chips? Sounds like shit-stirring to me.
Same. I think I remember reading that their talks with Sony ended because Nvidia wouldn't come down in price. At this point they're like a little kid throwing a temper tantrum

"Fine! We don't want our amazing cards in your weak-ass console anyway!"

Adam Jensen said:
We know. And we also know that PC games will never be as optimized as console games and they will always require more raw power to run games at console settings. And that's mostly because of bloated operating systems that are not designed specifically for gaming. Windows still has a shitty bloated kernel and that won't change as long as Microsoft has practically a monopoly on desktop operating systems.
And pretty much the only other thing I was going to say. Realistically, no matter how much I may want to upgrade computer hardware every year, I can't afford it. Just because some people are rich enough to upgrade every few years doesn't mean we all can so it's not exactly a selling point. So I might as well buy a system that uses half the power, has a steady frame rate, doesn't require building, researching and bargain hunting and doesn't run on inefficient software powered by a company who stopped giving fucks about their users want a decade ago

Hopefully Steam OS will change that but unless they offer physical media and/or no drm I'll probably continue to own a console for a while
 

Ukomba

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Oct 14, 2010
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Not that game will scale to match the potential of the higher graphics cards. Game makers tend to produce what the consoles can run so your better graphics cards will usually end up being overkill. And unless there's a breakthrough in production method, game companies can't afford to take advantage of the titan level graphical capability.
 

RikuoAmero

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Jan 27, 2010
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"Microsoft simply can't afford to spend that kind of money"

Did someone actually say that? Say that MICROSOFT can't afford to spend money? The company whose founder was the richest man on Earth for several years running?
 

Hagi

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Apr 10, 2011
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Adam Jensen said:
We know. And we also know that PC games will never be as optimized as console games and they will always require more raw power to run games at console settings. And that's mostly because of bloated operating systems that are not designed specifically for gaming. Windows still has a shitty bloated kernel and that won't change as long as Microsoft has practically a monopoly on desktop operating systems.
The XBox One has pretty much the same kernel though, it's got a few modifications but considering the XBox One is supposed to be able to run standard Windows Apps with some minor modifications it won't be anything major.

Bloat on the XBox One could easily be worse considering it's running not just a modified Windows but also it's own OS and a third OS to allow the two other OS to communicate. Mostly depends on how active the Windows kernel will remain while you're gaming, but considering you're supposed to be able to pause at any time and immediately start Skyping or even do the two side-by-side I don't think it going fully inactive is part of the options.

Granted, it's already been pretty much established that the XBox One is no longer a device intended as a dedicated gaming machine. But outside of PS4 exclusives games will be manufactured to run smoothly on both systems so console games in the next generation will also be made to run on bloated OS that are not designed specifically for gaming.
 

shintakie10

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Sep 3, 2008
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Ukomba said:
Not that game will scale to match the potential of the higher graphics cards. Game makers tend to produce what the consoles can run so your better graphics cards will usually end up being overkill. And unless there's a breakthrough in production method, game companies can't afford to take advantage of the titan level graphical capability.
Even if they don't scale games all that well for the PC, unless they do some dodgey shit you'll at least get 60+ fps on a PC. The Xbone and PS4 have had developers already sayin they might not be able to push 60 fps on the new consoles and will stick with 30.