Popular Science: Comments Can Be Bad For Science

Karloff

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Oct 19, 2009
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Popular Science: Comments Can Be Bad For Science



Popular Science explains why it shut down its comments threads.

"It wasn't a decision we made lightly," says Suzanne LaBarre, online content director for Popular Science, the 141 year old monthly magazine covering all things scientific and technological, for the general reader. But trolls and spambots meant that the magazine's online comments threads just had to go. The problem isn't just that discussion gets a bit heated in those threads; it's that a fractious minority can manipulate how the article itself is perceived, and therefore how science is understood. "A politically motivated, decades-long war on expertise has eroded the popular consensus on a wide variety of scientifically validated topics," LaBarre points out, and the end result of that war is that an online 'debate' - however uninformed it may be - has somehow become more important than the science.

"The cynical work of undermining bedrock scientific doctrine is now being done beneath our own stories, within a website devoted to championing science," says LaBarre. Two studies, one of which was written up in the New York Times [http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/03/opinion/sunday/this-story-stinks.html?_r=1&], support LaBarre's supposition, that comments threads can negatively impact the audience's perception of the article itself. In the Times study, conducted by University of Wisconsin-Madison professor Dominique Brossard, 1,183 participants were asked to read a fake blog article about a new technology called nanosilver. Half the participants then looked at the comments posted by reasonable, civil people, while the other half looked at the less restrained commentary from the troll pit. The content of the comments was the same across the board - some in favor, some against, some wary - and only the tenor and language was different.

"The results were both surprising and disturbing," said Brossard. "Uncivil comments not only polarized readers, but they often changed a participant's interpretation of the news story itself." An attack - regardless of its substance - was enough to make other readers think the worst.

For Popular Science, studies like this were enough to make it shut down the comments thread. It's bad enough to know the trolls are out there, worse still to think that they might actually be able to control the debate, or alter people's perception of the subject under discussion.

Source: Popular Science [http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2013-09/why-were-shutting-our-comments]


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Ukomba

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Oct 14, 2010
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They were surprised by that? Really? They must not have spent much time on the internet.
 

luvd1

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Jan 25, 2010
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Isn't there an formula that says a "debate" descends into farce after just 24 posts?
 

Angelous Wang

Lord of I Don't Care
Oct 18, 2011
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Shame the real world isn't more like the internet, if we could shut up all the people talking about subjects they don't have any real clue about the world would be a better place.

Certainly would stop Fox and other anti-video game mongers out there.
 

Dominic Crossman

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Apr 15, 2013
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Saying crap like that makes you worse than Hitler...
is the type of comment that derails any reasonable discussions people may try and have on the Internet.
Barring the comparatively troll free escapist forums, you are lucky to see a conversation START reasonably on the Internet imo.
I mean have you read the youtube comments lately.

edit: read my own grammar and it was terrible so I corrected it. Somewhat anyways.
 

Thaluikhain

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Yeah, I'm going to take the time to thank all the moderators who keep this place in check, which must be a rubbish job.

I have any number of complaints about the moderating system, but on the whole they do a pretty good job.
 

Keiichi Morisato

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thaluikhain said:
Yeah, I'm going to take the time to thank all the moderators who keep this place in check, which must be a rubbish job.

I have any number of complaints about the moderating system, but on the whole they do a pretty good job.
i second this. i really do not envy you guys... you have my deepest condolences. also i love the Gif i see when ever someone gets banned from the forums.
 

mad825

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Mar 28, 2010
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Sounds like the U.S foreign policy -.-

I've never heard of Popular Science until now but they sure don't like looking at problems and creating solutions for them.
 

Something Amyss

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Dec 3, 2008
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Angelous Wang said:
Shame the real world isn't more like the internet, if we could shut up all the people talking about subjects they don't have any real clue about the world would be a better place.

Certainly would stop Fox and other anti-video game mongers out there.
Actually, we still have that problem. Cnospiracy sites gain more hits than news sites.
 

Mikeczw

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Sep 25, 2013
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I agree with the article since most of the internet is in the dirt. It's a little unfair to people who actually have intellectual discussions. Unfortunately we can't just look into the comment section for a quick inspiration without someone screaming his head off, but hey we can use out own time to research stuff on our own. Further more, spammers are a total pain and we all know it. Good luck to the moderators who have to deal with these type of people.
 

ryo02

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thaluikhain said:
Yeah, I'm going to take the time to thank all the moderators who keep this place in check, which must be a rubbish job.

I have any number of complaints about the moderating system, but on the whole they do a pretty good job.
the escapist is generally pretty nice but the comments on popular science on the other hand.

every article on climate change was LOL.NO.LIES.WRONG.BIAS. and the comments nearly all ways had some bot trying to scam people.

I never said anything in the comments it wasn't worth it I'm not even a member of the site despite checking it nearly every day.
 

CriticalMiss

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Jan 18, 2013
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It's always annoying to read an article about vaccinations and have dozens of idiots commenting on how whoever wrote it is some kind of zionist, new world order, nazi slave to the government agenda to control people and rule the world. They could just have comments as a subscriber bonus, then have someone moderate the comments and ban anyone who is spamming or being a twat. You'd get rid of a lot of the crappy comments that way and they would have a little extra income to cover the cost of moderation.
 

deathjavu

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MinionJoe said:
Popular Science requires registration in order to post comments there. Seems to me that they just don't want to bother moderating their own articles.

And while I enjoy PopSci, they're not a peer-reviewed journal. I doubt a few trolls there are ruining science.

But hey, their site, their rules.
I think the point being made is that these comments are taken, on some level, to be as valid as the expert's scientific opinion- a trend definitely mirrored in cable news.

Yes, everyone has an opinion. Lots of people will have opinions contrary to the experts (read:people who spend their entire lives doing this stuff) in a given field.

Does that make their opinion valid? Not really.

Does it make it equally valuable, such that they deserve to be sitting across from an actual expert on a TV show? Fuck no.

Honestly, I never, ever liked the comments section on news articles. For intelligent articles it discourages thinking about the content ourselves in favor of seeing if someone said something that makes sense to you (or to be less charitable, offers you the chance to find a comment that allows you to keep your same views, i.e. confirmation bias). For dumb articles it allows you to argue back, but the flame war traffic just encourages the posting of more shitty articles. It serves no good on any site, I think.

I was so dismayed to see the "comments" sections spread from yahoo news to every other news site ever. I know it brings in page views but by god is it a useless cancer.

(I've seen some obvious "troll bait" articles even here on the Escapist, which is kind of sad for a news site. Witness that "sexiest female characters" that a lot of people laughed at as trolling, but I think it's pretty unprofessional and news-damaging for a news site to troll. Of course if I'd posted that opinion in that particular article I would have just contributed to its traffic, so that was a lovely catch-22. This is a perfect example of why the comments section is useless garbage.)
 

Smooth Operator

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Oct 5, 2010
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Well it's certainly no solution to the problem but I absolutely understand they don't want their work shat on and then spend inordinate amounts of time keeping the peace.

But hopefully they will take this opportunity to do some research into forum communities and how to make them behave.
 

Shamanic Rhythm

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Mr.K. said:
Well it's certainly no solution to the problem but I absolutely understand they don't want their work shat on and then spend inordinate amounts of time keeping the peace.

But hopefully they will take this opportunity to do some research into forum communities and how to make them behave.
It's a solution that is unfortunately necessary. These are websites engaged in the important task of presenting the results of scientific inquiry to the general public, and comments by anonymous people who attack the science relentlessly without showing any real evidence for their objections are creating a false impression that the science is either wrong or misleading.

Seriously, just go onto any article about anthropogenic climate change and scroll down. You will find hordes of commentators implying falsified evidence, fictitious reports contradicting the findings, allegations of vested interests, links to non-peer reviewed publications, personal attacks, etc. They give the misleading idea that there is a huge amount of dissent, when amongst the scientific community there is an overwhelming consensus. Same goes for things like GMO.

I'm of the opinion that science and democracy don't mix. You need only look at Canada, where politicians with no scientific training are supposedly forcing all papers on climate change to be 'approved' by the prime minister's office before they can be released; or Australia, where the new government has shut down the body that was designed to provide independent advice on climate change because the Prime Minister thinks climate change is 'absolute crap'. People who don't belong to the scientific community should just butt out altogether.
 

Strazdas

Robots will replace your job
May 28, 2011
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Maybe if they did better science so a simple comment couldnt disprove it they wouldnt ahve that problem. spambots and trolls? the solution is called moderators.
Right now it looks nothing more than "we conduct "Science". if you dont agree, shut up"
 

McMullen

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Mar 9, 2010
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Strazdas said:
Maybe if they did better science so a simple comment couldnt disprove it they wouldnt ahve that problem. spambots and trolls? the solution is called moderators.
Right now it looks nothing more than "we conduct "Science". if you dont agree, shut up"
The point of the article was that it doesn't matter how good the science is, because people place more trust in groups they belong to and less in groups they don't belong to. This means (and my own digging into existing research for my thesis backs this up every time) that experts are very rarely the group that people place the most trust in. Most times, they'll trust their family and friends first, followed by community members and leaders, and then the experts. Sometimes the order is different; sometimes the experts come fourth or later, sometimes they come second, but very rarely (maybe never, in some contexts) first.

On the internet, this means that most people will be swayed more by their fellow commenters than by the experts in the article.
 

deathjavu

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Nov 18, 2009
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Strazdas said:
Maybe if they did better science so a simple comment couldnt disprove it they wouldnt ahve that problem. spambots and trolls? the solution is called moderators.
Right now it looks nothing more than "we conduct "Science". if you dont agree, shut up"
Where do you draw the line? Deleting comments because they're inaccurate or misleading? I don't think you could find a person in the world who has experience moderating and would agree to take on a moderating job with that kind of vague ruleset.

The problem is that people take the comments section as seriously as the actual article, probably because of confirmation bias. Solution: no comments section.

Hell, this comments section has clearly not been terribly useful. Did this add anything to the article? I really don't think so.
 
Oct 10, 2011
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I'm surprised how many people here actually like Popular Science to begin with. I've read three magazines since my dad gave me a subscription for my birthday because I am a science nerd, and they are almost complete garbage.

The only reason I say "almost" is because every issue seems to have just one or two good articles in it, and the rest of it is just advertising something by saying that a new app about music is a scientific breakthrough that will usheer the world to the future, or obvious junk science. There was one page that particularly cought my attention that was "water with the bond-angle of the hydrogens to the oxygen 0.000002 degrees wider, so it cures cancer!"

I am not kidding. Popular Science claimed to have found someone who cured cancer. I am going to dig in the trash (where I immediatly threw the magazine after reading the article) for that article so I can get a picture to edit into this post.

Edit: here it is. THE CANCER VIRUS ANSWER?!?!?!