UK Police Seize Suspected 3D Printed Firearm Parts In Raid

[Karloff]

UK Police Seize Suspected 3D Printed Firearm Parts In Raid

Greater Manchester police found the weapon during operation Challenger.

In what may be a world first, Greater Manchester police have seized what is believed to be components for a 3D printed firearm [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/120771-Printable-Gunmaker-About-to-Test-in-Texas], in a raid on organized crime targets as part of operation Challenger. The parts include what may be a magazine and trigger, as well as the 3D printer used to make them. Firearms specialists are now forensically examining the units, to determine whether or not the parts could be used to make a viable weapon. A man has been arrested on suspicion of making gunpowder and is being questioned.

But the seizure may not be what it seems. It has been alleged [http://www.newstatesman.com/future-proof/2013/10/3d-printed-gun-seized-manchester-actually-spare-printer-parts] that the parts taken in the raid are actually spare parts for the 3D printer. "We are aware of this suggestion, and it would be easier if it was cut and dried as to what these items are," said a police spokesman. "But when you take it as a whole, including the discovery of gunpowder, it is disturbing."

The Challenger raids are Greater Manchester's response to the murders of PCs Fiona Bone and Nichola Hughes, in September 2012. The unarmed constables were lured to a house by a fake burglary report, and then shot dead by Dale Cregan [http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2013/feb/12/dale-cregan-admits-murdering-police]. Cregan fired over thirty rounds, hitting each officer multiple times, and then threw a fragmentation grenade at the constables' bodies. Cregan was involved in organized crime, and claimed to have killed the constables because the police were hounding his family.

More than 100 raids [http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/uk-news/greater-manchester-police-seize-3d-6242037] were carried out as part of Challenger. Over fifty people have been arrested, and quantities of narcotics, counterfeit and stolen goods, and real firearms have been seized during the raids.

Source: Guardian [http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/oct/25/suspected-3d-printer-gun-found-manchester]


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[Zeren]

It's just proof that gun laws don't stop people from getting guns no matter how strict they are.

 

[GoaThief]

It's just proof that gun laws don't stop people from getting guns no matter how strict they are.

Exactly, it makes it very hard to support very restrictive laws like you see in the UK and Ireland.

Scandinavian countries often have lax gun laws and crimes committed via firearms are very low.

 

[Blachman201_v1legacy]

3d printed guns is probably going to be a mainly European phenomenon, not really an American one.

 

[Thaluikhain]

It's just proof that gun laws don't stop people from getting guns no matter how strict they are.

They can make it hard enough that many won't, though.

 

[Albino Boo]

It's just proof that gun laws don't stop people from getting guns no matter how strict they are.

The UK has has 0.4 gun homicides per 100000 and the US has 3.6. The fact that the UK has 900% lower number of gun homicides is clearly to do with the fact the guns are very tightly controlled.

 

[CriticalMiss]

It's just proof that gun laws don't stop people from getting guns no matter how strict they are.

The UK has has 0.4 gun homicides per 100000 and the US has 3.6. The fact that the UK has 900% lower number of gun homicides is clearly to do with the fact the guns are very tightly controlled.

Either that or we have shit aim.

 

[Phrozenflame500]

Either that or we have shit aim.

Probably all the video games those Americans play.

OT: Meh, gun laws or not this could mean criminals now can print guns from the safety and comfort of their home. Sounds like something that should be restricted at least, although with the internet it would be extremely difficult. I'd imagine the bullets that the firearms use will be restricted instead of the actual data.

 

[Fasckira]

... that's a gun?

Part of, they think.

I like the idea that its a 3D printed replace part for the 3d printer, as it creates this parody in my head of buying a 3d printer and then creating more 3d printers to sell - endless profit!

 

[tangoprime]

Cregan fired over thirty rounds, hitting each officer multiple times, and then threw a fragmentation grenade at the constables' bodies. Cregan was involved in organized crime, and claimed to have killed the constables because the police were hounding his family.

But... how? Guns are Illegal, and Grenades are too- wait, WAIT. He used a fucking fragmentation grenade!? You don't even hear of crazy shit like that here in the states.

 

[Redlin5_v1legacy]

Spoiler

3d printed guns is probably going to be a mainly European phenomenon, not really an American one.

Yeah, I don't think it'll catch on too fast in America.

OT: I wonder if airport security is going to get even more invasive as these 3D printed guns become more common. Oh and the guy who sparked the Challenger operation probably should have thought about how much more the police would hound him and his family before murdering two of their people

 

[tangoprime]

... that's a gun?

Part of, they think.

I like the idea that its a 3D printed replace part for the 3d printer, as it creates this parody in my head of buying a 3d printer and then creating more 3d printers to sell - endless profit!

That's kind of one of the the grand ideas of the 3D Printing, the more spartan 3D printer kits that you can build yourself, than manufacture most of the parts to build another using the first, and so on, so they can propagate in less industrialized areas of the world and allow people to build things they need using free open source plans available online.

 

[tangoprime]

OT: I wonder if airport security is going to get even more invasive as these 3D printed guns become more common.

It's can't get much more invasive, and with current technology being used, they'd see them, plastic or not. You already have to choose between one of the following: Walking through the scanner with your hands up, which is sensitive enough that last time I went through, they detected a plastic pen cap from a Bic pen in my jeans' pocket and made me take a putdown. Or, just cutting right to the chase and letting minimum wage worker in bright blue fondle you.

 

[Schadrach]

... that's a gun?

Part of, they think.

I like the idea that its a 3D printed replace part for the 3d printer, as it creates this parody in my head of buying a 3d printer and then creating more 3d printers to sell - endless profit!

One of the 3d printer designs out there that gets frequently iterated, called the RepRap actually has being able to produce a RepRap with a RepRap as an ultimate goal.

OT: Meh, gun laws or not this could mean criminals now can print guns from the safety and comfort of their home. Sounds like something that should be restricted at least, although with the internet it would be extremely difficult. I'd imagine the bullets that the firearms use will be restricted instead of the actual data.

Guns aren't tremendously complicated devices, ultimately the biggest restriction on 3d printed guns is a design where the gun itself can survive the detonation of the gunpowder, while still being made out of PLA, ABS, or similar.

They are necessarily going to be larger than similar traditional firearms (the plastic isn't as strong as metal, so it needs to be thicker to withstand the same force with a given design), and only smaller caliber rounds (because you're going to hit that line where it becomes impractical to use as a firearm before you build one that can handle the largest rounds). On the other hand, it'll also likely be impossible to trace such a gun, so if you're just after a difficult to prove murder...

It's can't get much more invasive, and with current technology being used, they'd see them, plastic or not. You already have to choose between one of the following: Walking through the scanner with your hands up, which is sensitive enough that last time I went through, they detected a plastic pen cap from a Bic pen in my jeans' pocket and made me take a putdown. Or, just cutting right to the chase and letting minimum wage worker in bright blue fondle you.

Last time I went through one, it went off on my hair.

 

[TiberiusEsuriens]

But the seizure may not be what it seems. It has been alleged [http://www.newstatesman.com/future-proof/2013/10/3d-printed-gun-seized-manchester-actually-spare-printer-parts] that the parts taken in the raid are actually spare parts for the 3D printer.

So he claims to be using a 3D printer to make a 3D printer?

Spoiler

 

[Sovvolf]

Call me crazy but wouldn't a plastic gun be pretty much impossible? I mean, I'd assume even attempting to fire the gun would just cause it to melt or blow up in your hand. Sure people have been trying for years to make a plastic gun, something impossible to detect by metal detectors and the such... I can't imagine the solution being found in a 3D printer.

Possible to make a good replica or a toy that way, through a 3D printer. Be fairly cool to do. Though a working firearm... I somehow doubt it.

Also, if that part at the top is supposed to be the hammer... I can't see how it would even work.

 

[KungFuJazzHands]

Jesus Christ, talk about jumping to conclusions here. They could easily solve this by consulting someone who either builds 3D printers or repairs standard printers for a living.

That piece in the pick looks like a retention switch or clip of some kind. It's been years since I took apart an actual printer, but that would be my best guess.

EDIT: another article, this one at theverge.com, is claiming the parts actually were from a 3D printer- http://www.theverge.com/2013/10/25/5027282/uk-police-seize-3d-printed-gun-components

Looking at the additional photo provided there, I think it's safe to say the Manchester popos didn't know what the hell they were doing when they seized the materials to begin with.

 

[Nielas]

Call me crazy but wouldn't a plastic gun be pretty much impossible? I mean, I'd assume even attempting to fire the gun would just cause it to melt or blow up in your hand. Sure people have been trying for years to make a plastic gun, something impossible to detect by metal detectors and the such... I can't imagine the solution being found in a 3D printer.

Possible to make a good replica or a toy that way, through a 3D printer. Be fairly cool to do. Though a working firearm... I somehow doubt it.

Also, if that part at the top is supposed to be the hammer... I can't see how it would even work.

Actually, the technology has improved enough that 3D printing a working gun is possible. The reliability is still questionable and you need high quality materials but viable guns have been made. Articles on this were even posted on this site.

The reason why these guns are not a big deal right now is that in most cases it is easier and/or cheaper to just buy a normal metal gun.