The Elder Scrolls Online: Crafting the Perfect MMO

[The Escapist Staff]

The Elder Scrolls Online: Crafting the Perfect MMO

There are many aspects that go into making a quality MMO. We look at a few of them and how they are shaping up in the ESO beta.

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[Lvl 64 Klutz]

Wonder how many people are going to accuse the Escapist of being in Zenimax's pockets. I have no interest in this game as I don't enjoy the Elder Scrolls games for a reason I can't quite put my finger on (probably an amalgamation of a bunch of small reasons), so I can't judge the responses objectively. But the game does seem to be ushering in a lot of negative responses from almost every other source I've come across except here. That combined with the odd decision to skip the game's open beta doesn't give me a lot of hope for it's success. I guess time will only tell.

As for me, just cancelled my FFXIV subscription for being the most repetitive MMO on the market, and currently holding out for Wildstar.

 

[Sight Unseen]

One thing I noticed from this article:

I probably would've had more fun if the game had scaled my character up to a level on par with the NPCs.

The game actually does scale your character up pretty significantly when you enter PVP zones. The NPCs are deliberately hard so that a single person couldn't just siege an undefended castle and just systematically eliminate all the NPC guards on their own and claim the castle.

You need a group of at least 15+ people to take a castle that's completely undefended by other players because those NPCs are such a ***** to kill.

 

[Remus]

Wonder how many people are going to accuse the Escapist of being in Zenimax's pockets. I have no interest in this game as I don't enjoy the Elder Scrolls games for a reason I can't quite put my finger on (probably an amalgamation of a bunch of small reasons), so I can't judge the responses objectively. But the game does seem to be ushering in a lot of negative responses from almost every other source I've come across except here. That combined with the odd decision to skip the game's open beta doesn't give me a lot of hope for it's success. I guess time will only tell.

As for me, just cancelled my FFXIV subscription for being the most repetitive MMO on the market, and currently holding out for Wildstar.

This is what happens when you don't read the full article. Here, I'll paste the closing paragraph for you.

"Greg says: In closing, many people have written about the blandness of the first few hours of Elder Scrolls Online, John Walker of Rock, Paper Shotgun being the most notable, but I don't really agree with that criticism. Yes, some of the writing and voice acting falls flat, but there are also memorable characters and stories being told. I enjoyed the engaging stories you don't really get from MMOs, and the pure game-making craft of the game can't be denied. Not every part of the game is perfect by any means, but ESO does feel like an incredibly polished experience. I still don't know if playing it is worth the $15/month subscription fee, but it's definitely a CRPG experience you don't want to miss.

Walker is right though, John Cleese is wasted as voice talent with his little bit in the opening sequence. Pretend he's not there."

This wasn't The Escapist claiming that the game is the best thing since sliced bread. In fact it adequately matches my own experiences in the game. The last part about John Cleese, I can only hope that his part may expand as one goes further into the main quest. PvP will get better as players enter the game on release and get more organized, the quest system is a mix of regular MMO staples and what can be found in any other ES game, and the combat is enjoyable without forcing players into a rotation or needing 30 hotkeys for all of your skills. A large part of the negativity stems from the very idea of "oh, this is Zenimax looking for a cashgrab" and has little to do with the game itself. If you have been in beta and didn't like what you saw, that's fine, even though it is again, a beta and many of the features aren't all there yet. If you haven't had any testing experience with the game, you have little to complain about. I for one liked what I saw because it's not just another rehash of WoW like TOR was. It's different, with better graphics, more engaging characters and combat, and less grindey quests. Maybe put in a word at Zenimax and see if they might offer a free trial later on so you can try before you buy. But judging before you've played the final product gets you nowhere.

 

[Greg Tito]

Wonder how many people are going to accuse the Escapist of being in Zenimax's pockets. I have no interest in this game as I don't enjoy the Elder Scrolls games for a reason I can't quite put my finger on (probably an amalgamation of a bunch of small reasons), so I can't judge the responses objectively. But the game does seem to be ushering in a lot of negative responses from almost every other source I've come across except here. That combined with the odd decision to skip the game's open beta doesn't give me a lot of hope for it's success. I guess time will only tell.

As for me, just cancelled my FFXIV subscription for being the most repetitive MMO on the market, and currently holding out for Wildstar.

Not every one of us enjoys the game, just so you know. I'm not certain I do either, but I'm impressed with the craftsmanship of it and had fun while I played with it.

I don't agree with the criticisms many other outlets have leveled at the game. I wonder if the people writing those articles have played lots of MMOs, from their tone they just don't like the genre at all. On the other hand, I have stated again and again that I don't think ESO has enough of the "special sauce" needed to make it in the MMO market, but that doesn't mean it's a badly designed game.

And FYI, from playing both betas, Wildstar is pretty much the same as ESO. Cool ideas, interesting deviations from MMO norms, not enough to push subscription numbers IMO.

Greg

 

[PuckFuppet]

I've posted this twice now, and I don't really feel like rewriting it again, so here it is.

One of the issues you get when you discuss something with the mindset of "Is this good?", particularly when it comes to video games which are very individual experiences, is hyperbole.

Was WoW the best thing ever? It was good, it had a very consistent tone and was well designed. However you rarely get people who are able to look at a product without the extremes, then you have the people who tend to swing towards an extreme because they see other people like them there. It is a vicious cycle much more worthy of an article than the banal assessment of recent MMO development cycles.

Is ESO going to fail? Probably, the market is broadly made up of people who are still of the mindset that if you like it you must dislike everything else, the same people who drive the actual cycle that the article was alluding to and are entirely apathetic to the idea of being part of improving the market/industry. More often that not the people who argue either way for a games chances, particularly in a broader public setting, are just dancing to the tune of the executives and the investors.

As an example of that look at EA, regarded as a terrible company and a pox on the entire industry, but easily able to occupy the same space as other "better" companies because any chance of a change is impossible when the market itself is equal parts apathetic and zealous. The zealots drive people one way or the other, keeping franchises afloat regardless of their actual quality, so that those who have associated themselves with a given franchise aren't loyal so much as their are subject to the franchise itself. It is the "If I buy it nothing will change, if I don't buy it those jerks win. Better buy it." effect.

As much as ESO or Wildstar are points of discussion the actual conversation people need to be having is whether or not constantly espousing the ethos of "You like this, therefore you're stupid/wrong and I'm right/better" is something that can be addressed.

In one of the threads in which I posted this, or similar, I quoted a user who genuinely asked "WHO DO I BELIEVE?!" questioning the disparity between the views expressed in the article I responded to and views expressed elsewhere, I think it was RPS that time.

That is a ridiculous state for "games journalism" to be in. No game will _ever_ be flawless, it can't happen. The concept of "best ever" is meaningless marketing speak that we have become so accustomed to our scale of good and bad experiences with regards to games is ENTIRELY defined by it.

I like ESO, quite a bit infact, but I'm not going to say in conversation that it is "the best" or "the greatest" or "better than all the rest" objectively because I don't get to make that determination, no one does. That said people seem to have foisted that responsibility on reviewers, on youtubers and to a point on themselves because they're expected to "know the difference between good and bad" objectively.

I just... what?

EDIT: I really want to respond to that PvP article but I'm really not sure how much I can and can't say... so I'll keep it vague.

The point about long stretches of moving and organising punctuated by brief moments of fire and death is entirely true but I honestly found sieges, defending or attacking, to be consistently engaging. The PvP is easily one of the stand-out elements of the game for me, and I'm not someone who has enjoyed PvP in MMO's before.

You need a group to achieve anything major, which I like. On a 1v1 basis you are, as long as you're willing to focus on taking skills that help you in PvP, evenly matched with any other class (the only significant advantage being DK's HP regen ability). You can even win 1v2 if you're quick and you get lucky but the game punishes lone wolves in the long run. You can still do it, lone wolfing that is, but you'll never generate as much AP as someone in a group nor will you have as much fun.

Whereas in large group battles having an even mix of classes and specs is absolutely required, as is everything from siege placement to moving out of fire to watching the flank etc. etc.

It is a much more enjoyable group experience than, to take an example, SWTOR's PvP.

 

[Karadalis]

It is just another MMO that goes by the number with nothing really unique nowadays kept for FP view and skill leveling wich was a thing back in meridians days and ultima onlines days maybe.

Everything else is so boring and stereotypical for a mmo that you feel as if you have played this game a dozen times allready.

Also the way they market the game... with a exclusive race for pre orders and the ability to nilly willy join any faction despite racial choice, subscription AND microtransactions... yeah no... nonono

That and its entire color palette seems to consist of grays and browns, all in all ill wait for it to go f2p like ALL the other big name mmos that came out in recent years.

 

[Epic_Bubble]

Not every one of us enjoys the game, just so you know. I'm not certain I do either, but I'm impressed with the craftsmanship of it and had fun while I played with it.

I don't agree with the criticisms many other outlets have leveled at the game. I wonder if the people writing those articles have played lots of MMOs, from their tone they just don't like the genre at all. On the other hand, I have stated again and again that I don't think ESO has enough of the "special sauce" needed to make it in the MMO market, but that doesn't mean it's a badly designed game.

And FYI, from playing both betas, Wildstar is pretty much the same as ESO. Cool ideas, interesting deviations from MMO norms, not enough to push subscription numbers IMO.
Greg

But I haven't seen a single feature talking about Wildstar, yet I have seen plenty going on about Elder Scrolls online here at The Escapist and not just cause its the beta. You can see how people would think your coming from a influenced mindset. (Yes I do understand Wildstar still has a NDA which can explain a lack of content for it)

There is a huge difference between something being designed to be perfect and something being designed to be fun. The Call of duty series is designed to be perfect, it is not fun. This is why Call of duty comes across as bland, this is why the Elder Scrolls Online will come across as bland.

Here's the thing, why do I want to play game like World of Warcraft that's just wearing the mutilated corpse of the Elder Scrolls series, when I could just play World of Warcraft. You listed things like a choice system which I think is great but as you point out it doesn't last long. Every new thing its implementing looks and feels like its tacked on to appear as a innovative game

So here we have a game trying to tick every MMO box and trying to be everyone ones friend yet people are seeing past that into its bland void with its lackluster features.

If there ever was an example of wasted money spent at game development this would be an ideal candidate.

 

[PuckFuppet]

Also the way they market the game... with a exclusive race for pre orders and the ability to nilly willy join any faction despite racial choice, subscription AND microtransactions

Imperials are exclusive.
Factions are better defined politically and culturally than they are racially. The idea of relying on a racial choice to define a faction is a remarkably backwards view of things, they've done what they can to counter it. The race to faction restrictions seem almost completely cosmetic and should probably be outright done away with though.
Subscription is what it is.
Details on the microtransactions? I've not seen any but I haven't been looking hard, you sound like you've read an article on it.

 

[Greg Tito]

But I haven't seen a single feature talking about Wildstar, yet I have seen plenty going on about Elder Scrolls online here at The Escapist and not just cause its the beta. You can see how people would think your coming from a influenced mindset. (Yes I do understand Wildstar still has a NDA which can explain a lack of content for it)

There is a huge difference between something being designed to be perfect and something being designed to be fun. The Call of duty series is designed to be perfect, it is not fun. This is why Call of duty comes across as bland, this is why the Elder Scrolls Online will come across as bland.

You are right about the NDA, but the real reason we haven't published a lot of Wildstar coverage is that it doesn't have the mainstream appeal that ESO does. Not that many people care about Wildstar, to be honest, while there is more interest in whether ESO can match Skyrim in appeal, etc.

But you will start to see more Wildstar coverage soon.

Greg

 

[Seydaman]

...This honestly looks as if The Escapist got handed a big pile of money by Zenimax, come on guys, you put "Perfect MMO" in the title...

OT: We'll see how it plays on release

 

[Lvl 64 Klutz]

snip

Good enough points, I do find the criticisms to be mostly along the lines of "too much MMO, not enough Elder Scrolls." I'm thinking the game will start out well enough, there's certainly plenty of hype around the game. So we'll see, maybe I'll keep a closer eye on it than I have been. I've bounced around between enough MMO's the last few years unable to find one that truly captivates me that I'm hoping one really does hit the mark this year.

 

[Greg Tito]

...This honestly looks as if The Escapist got handed a big pile of money by Zenimax, come on guys, you put "Perfect MMO" in the title...

OT: We'll see how it plays on release

If you honestly think that, you are silly. It's also possible that more of the editors on The Escapist actually like MMOs more than the editors of other main outlets ...

And yes, this is all just impressions from a limited beta access. It will be different at release.

Greg

 

[Seydaman]

If you honestly think that, you are silly. It's also possible that more of the editors on The Escapist actually like MMOs more than the editors of other main outlets ...

And yes, this is all just impressions from a limited beta access. It will be different at release.

Greg

It would be a sad day if The Escapist actually took bribes to do that

No, I'm just saying that is what the articles comes off as, especially compared to the deal of negative I've heard from acquaintances.

Side note, was it ever mentioned if ESO would be on Steam?

 

[Karadalis]

Also the way they market the game... with a exclusive race for pre orders and the ability to nilly willy join any faction despite racial choice, subscription AND microtransactions

Imperials are exclusive.
Factions are better defined politically and culturally than they are racially. The idea of relying on a racial choice to define a faction is a remarkably backwards view of things, they've done what they can to counter it. The race to faction restrictions seem almost completely cosmetic and should probably be outright done away with though.
Subscription is what it is.
Details on the microtransactions? I've not seen any but I haven't been looking hard, you sound like you've read an article on it.

Sure it is backwards thinking.

The thing is that if you want to avoid this backwards feature you have to preorder the game.

And everyone knows that preordering a game that wont even go open beta and only allows hand picked outlets (game journalists has such a bad ring to it nowadays) to review it beforehand is a very very bad idea.

Basicly they are holding features that should be a given hostage behind the pre order paywall... and i dont do that stuff anymore.

Theres only one game i pre order this year and thats dark souls 2 because i know whats going to happen in that game and what features it has.

Elderscrolls online thought? At best its going to be the 32590 equivalent of the "standard" MMO with a very thin layer of not as much used to death ideas that you find in any other mmo.

About the microtransactions, it was said in one of the articles here on the escapist that they would charge subscriptions because they wanted to protect the "integrety" of the game.... and then a couple of days later another interview followed where they talked about putting in microtransactions into the game.

I said no to that practice in WoW and i sure as hell not gonna start it for ESO

 

[PuckFuppet]

Also the way they market the game... with a exclusive race for pre orders and the ability to nilly willy join any faction despite racial choice, subscription AND microtransactions

Imperials are exclusive.
Factions are better defined politically and culturally than they are racially. The idea of relying on a racial choice to define a faction is a remarkably backwards view of things, they've done what they can to counter it. The race to faction restrictions seem almost completely cosmetic and should probably be outright done away with though.
Subscription is what it is.
Details on the microtransactions? I've not seen any but I haven't been looking hard, you sound like you've read an article on it.

Sure it is backwards thinking.

The thing is that if you want to avoid this backwards feature you have to preorder the game.

And everyone knows that preordering a game that wont even go open beta and only allows hand picked outlets (game journalists has such a bad ring to it nowadays) to review it beforehand is a very very bad idea.

Basicly they are holding features that should be a given hostage behind the pre order paywall... and i dont do that stuff anymore.

Theres only one game i pre order this year and thats dark souls 2 because i know whats going to happen in that game and what features it has.

Elderscrolls online thought? At best its going to be the 32590 equivalent of the "standard" MMO with a very thin layer of not as much used to death ideas that you find in any other mmo.

About the microtransactions, it was said in one of the articles here on the escapist that they would charge subscriptions because they wanted to protect the "integrety" of the game.... and then a couple of days later another interview followed where they talked about putting in microtransactions into the game.

I said no to that practice in WoW and i sure as hell not gonna start it for ESO

I have yet to see anything about microtransactions other than what is considered standard already in most games, character server transfers/redesigns etc.

Couldn't agree more about the paywall issue but honestly you seem to be making a lot of points that don't really connect with just ESO, much like me you seem to be more or less disinterested in the mess that is the games industry as it relates to MMO's.

What I will say is that to a point the lack of an open beta is moot at this stage, I honestly think that _anyone_ who applied to the beta within the last year has probably been in the last two (had 300 man battles last beta for instance). That being said it is a double edged sword for a developer/publisher, an open beta can be beneficial just as often as it can be a bad thing. If I understand what Zenimax are trying with the beta set-up they're going through it is that they're trying to get as many people as possible whom they think will actually give them feedback as opposed to just get online and start trash talking in global chat or some such.

If you haven't played it yet you'd be better off trying it or at least waiting to see what people are saying in general once the NDA has been lifted before forming a final opinion on it. The idea that you can form an opinion which you then zealously defend and spread without ever actually trying a game is a contributing factor to the things you describe as "a bad bad idea".

It just encourages people to expect a pointlessly critical backlash against them unless they can build their own zealots to counter. Just read the post I made in this thread, the one with the quote, to understand what I'm trying to say about that.

If you honestly think that, you are silly. It's also possible that more of the editors on The Escapist actually like MMOs more than the editors of other main outlets ...

And yes, this is all just impressions from a limited beta access. It will be different at release.

Greg

It would be a sad day if The Escapist actually took bribes to do that

No, I'm just saying that is what the articles comes off as, especially compared to the deal of negative I've heard from acquaintances.

Side note, was it ever mentioned if ESO would be on Steam?

I haven't seen anything about it and a cursory search didn't get any hits, if it were to be on Steam we'd likely have seen several adverts on the steam storepage already.

You've not played the game? Sign up for the beta, they're doing their best to get everyone they can into it and bar some instability issues as they're forcing everyone onto the one "megaserver" the last two betas have been a solid example of what you can probably expect from a release.

 

[Shaolen]

This game looks like a giant pile of "meh". Most previewers seem to be trying too hard to sell it, and that is a turn off right there. It looks too much like Warhammer Online to me, so it will be a skip for me, until 6 months down the road when it's free to play, and I'll check it out for a day or two then delete it.

 

[Pr0]

Crafting the Perfect MMO...

Short version: Zenimax hasn't

Slightly longer version: Neither has anyone else.

Summary: Pick your poison and venerate the aspects of it you can tolerate while willfully ignoring the fact that the only options you have are all poisons and the only differences are the tolerable aspects.

End statement: ESO isn't at fault for having to be editorially justified, its the MMO industry, as a whole, that is at fault for the bar being this low.

 

[Sanunes]

I think my only gripe with the article is the title, it feels like you are proclaiming the game to be perfect.

As the game goes I am tired of paying $15 a month or a game and from everything I have heard about ESO from other sites and The Escapist it seems like it would be a good game if it was handled like Guild Wars with an entry fee and then supported by micro transactions.

I am not sure about the PvP right now either, for Dark Age of Camelot tried the 3v3 siege warfare and at least on my server it always felt like at least one side was at a disadvantage because of population.