The Colbert Retort
- Thread starter MovieBob
- Start date
I think this story is sort of why I've been so hesitant to join online movements or 'clicktivism'. Even if the movement gets going with enough tweets or posts or whatever, it can backfire. Like the Kony movement. I think the intentions were in the right place but the execution could've been handled better.
I think this portion, you might have lost me, Bob. I did not see this effect, so if you could post a link, that would be helpful.MovieBob said:
I am still having a hard time finding a directing cause and effect link that doing "A" will result in "B".
As 10 minutes on r/TumblrInAction will tell you, there will never be a shortage of SJW overreaction. Sometimes I almost think that all those crazy tumblr blogs are part of a bizarre right ring conspiracy to poison the general populations opinions on worthwhile social justice issues...
Also, can we please stop blaming the counter-reaction on the fact Suey Park is a woman. If you say something really stupid on the internet, then people are going to voice their opinions against you, male or female.
Also, can we please stop blaming the counter-reaction on the fact Suey Park is a woman. If you say something really stupid on the internet, then people are going to voice their opinions against you, male or female.
I have to say, the article was a bit wordy and it took roughly 3/4's of it to know Bob's opinion on this, but I'm pleasantly surprised by how it turned out. I was afraid he was gonna jump on the bandwagon of hating the Colbert Report simply because some brain donor opened up in his stupid virtual mouth on twitter and now that has to represent everything the show was, is and will be.
I was actually quite unaware of this. It's amazing how much you miss when you don't waste your time on Twitter (I don't even have an account because I have never seen anything positive happen there). I, regrettably, also got rid of my cable a while ago so I haven't seen the Colbert Report in a long long time. It's sad!
I feel like it's a sad day when people jump to conclusions and get everyone wound up in a tizzy over a single line on a Twitter feed. I feel it's just as sad when idiots come out to play and basically justify half of what people are saying by making genuinely sexist and racist comments. I don't agree with the #CancelColbert idea, I don't agree with the clicktivist (I credit the comment by Andrew Siribohdi for even knowing that is a thing) BS that comes with it. But I can not agree without degrading to sexist and racist comments about the original Tweeter. I know that most of the internet is like me, reasonable thinking individuals who can make their own decisions without the need to be told something wrong was actually done. I just can't stand how people who do that kind of thing have equal access to internet. But, that is the thing about freedom of speech I guess. I can't stand the KKK, but I can't sit here and say they aren't allowed to think that or act on those thoughts so long as it's not actually hurting anyone. So, it's best to let the blowhards on both sides have their say and just ignore them.
I was actually quite unaware of this. It's amazing how much you miss when you don't waste your time on Twitter (I don't even have an account because I have never seen anything positive happen there). I, regrettably, also got rid of my cable a while ago so I haven't seen the Colbert Report in a long long time. It's sad!
I feel like it's a sad day when people jump to conclusions and get everyone wound up in a tizzy over a single line on a Twitter feed. I feel it's just as sad when idiots come out to play and basically justify half of what people are saying by making genuinely sexist and racist comments. I don't agree with the #CancelColbert idea, I don't agree with the clicktivist (I credit the comment by Andrew Siribohdi for even knowing that is a thing) BS that comes with it. But I can not agree without degrading to sexist and racist comments about the original Tweeter. I know that most of the internet is like me, reasonable thinking individuals who can make their own decisions without the need to be told something wrong was actually done. I just can't stand how people who do that kind of thing have equal access to internet. But, that is the thing about freedom of speech I guess. I can't stand the KKK, but I can't sit here and say they aren't allowed to think that or act on those thoughts so long as it's not actually hurting anyone. So, it's best to let the blowhards on both sides have their say and just ignore them.
I remember watching this the other day and wondering if this would come up. I didn't think the gag was over the line but I did think it was unnecessary, having Colbert say a bunch of stereotypical things really quickly when the real issue was about a racial slur did sort of overshadow the point when I watched it. I walked away remembering feeling conflicted about the gag more than the real issue.
Additionally, while the tweet by CC was stupid and out of context, the show didn't properly give context to the origin of the character Colbert was doing, it just showed the old clip of him doing this character. I hadn't seen the old episode so I thought it was Colbert satirizing his earlier episodes, like maybe he too had done something stupid in the past and was mocking it, reading this article and now knowing that the character had a point back then makes me think it was short-sighted to bring up this old character without giving his origin proper context. They could have simply done the same gag of him starting a foundation with a racial slur in it and I felt it would have had a better effect since I was so conflicted with Colbert doing the whole stereotype thing.
Picking blame between CC/Colbert and CC's twitter/Colbert's twitter seems like a silly distraction, I can personally see how someone might get offended even with context by the gag Colbert made. I think focusing on explaining the context and then apologizing if people were offended given context would have been better and might have calmed this story down. However, overall, if you want to get a TV show cancelled, you shouldn't use Twitter because Twitter is often part of the problem with racial insensitivity, exampled by the fact that it was used to attack/insult this person who might have had a legitimate complaint about the gag. Also, a hashtag shouldn't be a key term to a complaint, you are putting your movement for sensitivity among the likes of FML and YOLO and that doesn't help your case.
Additionally, while the tweet by CC was stupid and out of context, the show didn't properly give context to the origin of the character Colbert was doing, it just showed the old clip of him doing this character. I hadn't seen the old episode so I thought it was Colbert satirizing his earlier episodes, like maybe he too had done something stupid in the past and was mocking it, reading this article and now knowing that the character had a point back then makes me think it was short-sighted to bring up this old character without giving his origin proper context. They could have simply done the same gag of him starting a foundation with a racial slur in it and I felt it would have had a better effect since I was so conflicted with Colbert doing the whole stereotype thing.
Picking blame between CC/Colbert and CC's twitter/Colbert's twitter seems like a silly distraction, I can personally see how someone might get offended even with context by the gag Colbert made. I think focusing on explaining the context and then apologizing if people were offended given context would have been better and might have calmed this story down. However, overall, if you want to get a TV show cancelled, you shouldn't use Twitter because Twitter is often part of the problem with racial insensitivity, exampled by the fact that it was used to attack/insult this person who might have had a legitimate complaint about the gag. Also, a hashtag shouldn't be a key term to a complaint, you are putting your movement for sensitivity among the likes of FML and YOLO and that doesn't help your case.
I'm with you, Bob. I don't even remember the original skit but I understand enough to recognize when Steven is playing a conservative blowhard living in complete obliviousness of their own obliviousness (see Palin, Sarah) and when he's not. I also understand many of the people missing the point have a somewhat knee-jerk reaction to these kinds of things, prematurely ejaculating themselves long before context and understanding have the chance to warm up and get in the mood.
I imagine tonight we will see Steven pull something only he can--a move that not only shames those who flew off the handle for their impulsiveness, but proves what magnificent steel balls Steven and his team have.
I imagine tonight we will see Steven pull something only he can--a move that not only shames those who flew off the handle for their impulsiveness, but proves what magnificent steel balls Steven and his team have.
I hope this thread doesn't just change into another SJW bashing thread.
Suey Park may have been in the wrong when she started the hashtag, but I understand the Kneejerk reaction when comparing most of the rest of Comedy Central's programming, primarily Tosh.0 and South park, the two shows that get replayed the most. South Park may have the excuse of Satire, but Tosh.0 does not; it has no important message beyond some of the most sexist, racist, and mysogynist humor on the planet. I think the only way Tosh barely gets away with it is that he intentionally uses that humor to paint himself as a terrible person and he is a terrible person because has those views, but that's a flimsy excuse at best. My point is is that both SOuth Park and Tosh.0 are two good enough reasons for somebody like Suey Park to give up Comedy Central entirely and ignore programs like the Daily Show and Colbert Report.
Also, lets not gloss over the actual racist tweets that Park received because of this hashtag. I saw some of the most disgusting things tweeted at this woman in "defense" of Stephen Colbert, it really made me question my initial opinion that Park was wrong, that even off handedly using racism ironically to villify and contextuallize actual racism still isn't okay because it can be interpreted as Pro Racism by the right audience.
Ultimately, I still disagree with Park, but I won't act as if there isn't a problem with the world to start with.
Suey Park may have been in the wrong when she started the hashtag, but I understand the Kneejerk reaction when comparing most of the rest of Comedy Central's programming, primarily Tosh.0 and South park, the two shows that get replayed the most. South Park may have the excuse of Satire, but Tosh.0 does not; it has no important message beyond some of the most sexist, racist, and mysogynist humor on the planet. I think the only way Tosh barely gets away with it is that he intentionally uses that humor to paint himself as a terrible person and he is a terrible person because has those views, but that's a flimsy excuse at best. My point is is that both SOuth Park and Tosh.0 are two good enough reasons for somebody like Suey Park to give up Comedy Central entirely and ignore programs like the Daily Show and Colbert Report.
Also, lets not gloss over the actual racist tweets that Park received because of this hashtag. I saw some of the most disgusting things tweeted at this woman in "defense" of Stephen Colbert, it really made me question my initial opinion that Park was wrong, that even off handedly using racism ironically to villify and contextuallize actual racism still isn't okay because it can be interpreted as Pro Racism by the right audience.
Ultimately, I still disagree with Park, but I won't act as if there isn't a problem with the world to start with.
Now now, have a little more faith man. MovieBob tends to be pretty reasonable, and I think we can all agree that Twitter is a terrible place that often does more harm than good. Either way, if you're interested you can catch the Colbert Report (and Daily Show) for free on their respective websites, though with a data cap I can see how that could pose a problem.Baresark said:
OT: Well, I didn't know this was a thing, and I'm frankly disappointed in pretty much everyone. As MovieBob said, this not only stands as a gross misunderstanding of a piece of satire, but provides reasons for people to avoid future involvement in such movements even when they're much better grounded.
What I can't figure out is how this person didn't know anything about Colbert. He's become something of a US institution, appearing on the cover of magazines, holding a public rally in Washington with John Stewert, presenting in front of Congress on the matter of migrant workers and raising huge sums of money for various charities. He's even listed as one of Time's 100 Most Influential People. I'm not saying it's a crime to be ignorant of such things, but even a cursory look at the man's activities should have been enough to prevent all of this. Also a slower Twitter-trigger finger...
And this is why (a) I don't have a Twitter account and never will and (b), imo, Twitter is one of the worst creations ever made by human beings. Granted, the same can be said for other forms of social media (Facebook, YouTube, etc.), but there has been some good to come out of those areas (Ben "Yahtzee" Crowshaw has a job here because of YouTube). With Twitter, its condensing human thought into a too quick and too brief sentence that can give off the wrong message; either intentionally or unintentionally. And, to be perfectly honest, I cannot sum up my thoughts in 140 characters or less and no one should ever have to do the same. It needs time, effort, research, and actual thinking to put them out. The phrase "Think before you speak" is a rule that needs to be carved in stone in the realm of the Internet.
This right here is the problem: "influential/heavily-followed ... social-media activist" since all it is is a person that says "I dont like it so you shouldnt like it either" to its followers.
I don't know that I can agree with you. The idea that one should not satirize racism because someone might not get that it's satire seems more than a little like an over reaction. It's no more surprising that actual racists didn't understand the context of what's going on when not even the SJW herself seemed to. I agree with that that Park is in the wrong here, but one should not construe a bunch of people acting like racists as the fault of the original satire, their words and deeds are their own.DrunkenElfMage said:
MovieBob said:
When I first read the article below, I could see Ms. Park's point of view, but I lost all respect for this woman and her cause when she responded to people telling her it was a joke with "Dear White People".
..... Really? Really.
The BBC article on the subject, with links to said Twitter post
UPDATE: Apparently the link wasn't working, so I have fixed it....hopefully.
How progressive of her to make assumptions about a group of people and their race. This sort of over-the-top reactionism to anything someone might find offensive feeds into the biases of the people who claim to hate racial stereotypes. Just as it is quite popular on the conservative side to play "who's the most batshit in their idealism" the same exists for the left. I'm not accusing Park of this, but she's not making herself look any better by engaging in baseless assumptions herself.Alorxico said:
I have to admit, that "Ching-Chong" thing got a giggle out of me at first (geez, I don't think I said that in decades and i'm in my 20s. Honestly, where does that come from?)
Anyway, not much I can add other than this type whole exchanged is getting all the more embarrassing for both sides.
Anyway, not much I can add other than this type whole exchanged is getting all the more embarrassing for both sides.
This is just one of the hundreds of reasons that Twitter (and Facebook, etc.,) are absolutely worthless and should be ignored.
This is what gets me. Colbert and Park are clearly, obviously, allies in their overall goals. He wouldn't have turned his attention to the Washington team at all if they didn't at least broadly agree with each other. Which makes the whole thing a People's Front of Judea problem, one of the most maddening impulses of activists everywhere.
Don't eat your own, people. It's not productive.
Speaking as a Brit who has never watched the Colbert Report (I know him only as "that guy who kinda pretends to be a fox news anchor") and has never heard that there was a team called the "Washington Redskins" I understood the joke right away and it's fairly obviously not anti-asian.
It's mocking racial insensitivity and very flimsy "some of my best friends are black" style dismissals of said insensitivity. That's fairly clear even outside the context (although I am aware that I generally give the benefit of the doubt more than most people)
It's mocking racial insensitivity and very flimsy "some of my best friends are black" style dismissals of said insensitivity. That's fairly clear even outside the context (although I am aware that I generally give the benefit of the doubt more than most people)